Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014

[neroden]

What would stop Amtrak from putting out a revised schedule with padding if they know there are going to be delays of at least 4 hours?

The problem is that there is no schedule whatsoever which can reliably get through the completely-non-functioning, frozen-up NS Chicago Line. :-( This is why some of us have been suggesting reroutes to bypass it. (The situation is substantially worse here than on BNSF, where the delays are at least predictable.)

 

[richm49]

Train 48(10/5) did not depart CHI until 2:45 A.M.. So it is starting out 5 hours,15 minutes late right out of the gate. Last reported departing Bryan,OH at 10:14 A.M. now 8 hours,34 minutes late with many more delays probably still ahead for this train. It is now at the point where you can not plan on traveling eastbound from CHI to either WAS or NYP with any degree of certainty. Have plans to return on 48/LSL early November after connecting from 4/SWC. I will now modify my return route from Flagstaff,AZ via 4/SWC and 48/LSL to Tucson,AZ via 2/SL and 20/Crescent to get back to NYP. Can't bear the thought of sitting on a siding for hours or being bused. if I wanted a bus I would book a trip on Greyhound, not Amtrak!!! Will set me back an extra $170 bucks for the re-route but I think the peace of mind it will give me will be worth it!!!!!

 

[neroden]

FWIW, while I was reading the US code, I ran across this gem:

Amtrak may make an agreement with a

rail carrier or regional transportation authority to use facilities

of, and have services provided by, the carrier or authority under

terms on which the parties agree. The terms shall include a penalty

for untimely performance.

Congress actually *requires* that Amtrak contracts with host railroads contain penalty clauses for untimely performance, whether Amtrak wants it or not.

The legal provisions related to punishing host railroads for failing to handle passenger traffic have been proliferating over the decades as the host railroads continued to behave in a derelict fashion. I'm not sure why the Class Is insist on unnecessarily ticking off Congress (resulting in added legislation) rather than just running their railroads competently. I mean, it's not the management choice *I'd* make.

 

[John Bobinyec]

The family was scheduled to take 29 to 3 next month. Plans are being redrawn as we speak. The last I heard was that they'll drive to Chicago in order to catch 3 - which THEY CANNOT MISS.

jb

 

[afigg]

Yes, I'd say it's most likely 49 & 29 will bus from TOL to points beyond & 48 & 30 will bus from CHI to TOL for the foreseeable future.

And I certainly won't mind if I'm proven wrong.

Blame NS, not Amtrak.

Yes, it appears that both #29 and #49 have stopped at Toledo and are busing everyone to CHI and stations inbetween. #48(10/5) is currently over 8 hours late and has not yet reached TOL. They should have stopped #49 at TOL yesterday, not just #29 CL.

The question is how long can Amtrak keep up turning the CL and LSL around at Toledo? For one or 2 days to "reset" the trains and get caught up is one thing. But the trains are serviced and cleaned in Chicago, so a Toledo turnaround means limited cleaning and no maintenance or spare cars if there is a problem. And taking a bus from Toledo to Chicago with a time killing pit stop at a highway rest stop is no fun.

A re-route through Michigan would add, what?, 3 hours or more to the trip each way, not counting delays between Porter and Chicago, If the 110 mph track upgrades in MI and the Indiana Gateway projects were completed, a re-route through MI as a interim backup plan might be more feasible. But those are not going to be done until 2016 or 2017 it appears.

So, the question remains, when will the NS route get back to some degree of close to normal? The September 12 NS service alert warned about delays east of Toledo through October 22.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

No pit stop for us today. They provided vending machine pastries & bottles of water as we left TOL. There's a bathroom on board (and was clean when I used it around the 2 hour mark).

Most people were asleep, so no complaints from them

 

[montana mike]

What time do you think you will arrive in CHI???

 

[RampWidget]

I'm aboard (or was aboard) 29(4) WAS-CHI.

We were awakened by the SCA around 05:15A and informed that the train was going to terminate at TOL and all pax Bustituted to destination.

Explanation given was "a service disruption" but other than vague references to the NS, there was nothing more specific.

I sure am ready to get off this bus!

I will say that the on-board & operating crews handled the situation well, under the circumstances.

I was on 29 also. I was in the 2900 car and second bus to leave Toledo. Bus driver Russ, a big guy.I agree with you.

Darn it, there is a price to be paid for my not being on AU in several months! Penny, I'm disappointed to have missed the opportunity to meet you.

I was in the 2901 car. Maybe some other time.

 

[CHamilton]

Amtrak trains often trickle into Toledo after rash of delays

Late arrivals lead to irate customers

Late trains are nothing new for Amtrak, particularly for the overnight, long-distance trains such as those that serve Toledo — the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited. Trains running more than three hours late have become the norm recently, and they have often lost that much or more just on the Chicago-Toledo portion of trips. The Capitol Limited was 12 hours behind schedule on Sunday.
While there have been exceptions, by far the biggest obstacle to Amtrak’s time-keeping across northern Indiana and northern Ohio has been tracks blocked by freight trains belonging to Norfolk Southern, which owns and operates the line Amtrak uses between Chicago and Cleveland.

 

[n714da]

Well, now sitting up front on a Delta MadDog about to pushback from DCA. I was really looking forward to new trackage, dinner, and a restful night in a CL bedroom tonight. I understand it's the freight railroads' fault, but in any event, it's tough to justify using long distance intercity rail for business travel. You know, I would seem like the type of customer Amtrak would want to woo, and keep. Tons of business travel with a good deal of discretion as to when, where, how, and how much - for me and a staff of 10 other road warriors. Plus, we are all politically active and willing to help lobby Congress and state officials. Heck, we frequently ride the Acela from WAS to BOS and back instead of flying. And we are always looking for rail options that will work for business - out in the morning, back in the evening.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Based on a quick read, it is a good article and answers a lot of questions. I do not like the idea of an automated Dispatching system, as one glitch or screw-up could cause a major disaster.

 

[Ryan]

I'm just going to leave this here (it just showed up in my inbox).

 

[AmtrakBlue]

What time do you think you will arrive in CHI???

I arrived at about 11:30...I mean 10:30 (crappy iPhone doesn't know what time zone it's in).Checked in, changed my shoes, lightened my backpack a bit, checked my bags with the red cap, went to Sears Tower gift shop & now(12:00) at Lou Mitchell's for brunch.

 

[RampWidget]

I'm just going to leave this here (it just showed up in my inbox).

AdvBk_Oct2014_AMT_RspEM_Chi_DTb_Img_600x400.jpg

Ryan, nothing like timing! I'm booked on the LSL BOS-CHI for Dec. 12. That reservation appears to be a prime candidate for a self-imposed reroute. :wacko:

 

[RampWidget]

Well, now sitting up front on a Delta MadDog about to pushback from DCA. I was really looking forward to new trackage, dinner, and a restful night in a CL bedroom tonight. I understand it's the freight railroads' fault, but in any event, it's tough to justify using long distance intercity rail for business travel. You know, I would seem like the type of customer Amtrak would want to woo, and keep. Tons of business travel with a good deal of discretion as to when, where, how, and how much - for me and a staff of 10 other road warriors. Plus, we are all politically active and willing to help lobby Congress and state officials. Heck, we frequently ride the Acela from WAS to BOS and back instead of flying. And we are always looking for rail options that will work for business - out in the morning, back in the evening.

Well-put. Business was the purpose for my trip on 29(4) - even on the weekend I had a meeting scheduled in Chgo. But doing so required that I pad my flight schedule several hours on both ends. Fortunately, I like airplanes and trains. Most people don't like airplanes, and won't voluntarily sacrifice several hours of their personal time to utilize a LD train for business travel.

Edit: clarity

 

[Barciur]

If this becomes the new norm I think I'll cancel my trip to Milwaukee via CL. One of the primary reasons of going there was a sleeper trip from Pittsburgh to Chicago and back. If htis is turned into a half sleeper, half bus trip, I might as well just screw it and fly in. If it was at least able to get to South Bend, it'd be one thing, but another 4 hours on the bus is just a shame.

I just hope this is just for a couple of days to cut the vicious circle of late arrivals and departures.

 

[jis]

There is really no excuse for busing all the way to Chicago when Amtrak could reroute via Michigan. Which Amtrak still can do.

Boardman needs to show some sense.

As for NS, if they're not paying damages to Amtrak and all the freight shippers who've been delayed... well, then they have too much power over contract writing and need to be nationalized or re-regulated.

I had a discussion with my granddaughter about this. She works for NS and claims that because the freight is time sensitive, they have priority. She stated a case where a production line could not operate without parts that are on NS freight. Seems freight lines should require customers with time sensitive shipments that they must have a wider lead time. Also seems passengers are time sensitive in many cases.

I am actually completely floored with amazement that she actually said that, and then you proceeded to report that on a public forum! As Neorden pointed out, that is admission of a patently illegal act! Oh well..... wonders never cease I suppose! I guess minimally reporting that to the STB may be in order. Though, I suspect that your grand daughter was probably not speaking based on first hand knowledge, but on the general atmosphere within the company, which in the past has been sufficient to construct a case against a company.

 

[John Bobinyec]

I am actually completely floored with amazement that she actually said that, and then you proceeded to report that on a public forum! As Neorden pointed out, that is admission of a patently illegal act! Oh well..... wonders never cease I suppose! I guess minimally reporting that to the STB may be in order. Though, I suspect that your grand daughter was probably not speaking based on first hand knowledge, but on the general atmosphere within the company, which in the past has been sufficient to construct a case against a company.

Evidently, it's not illegal until the Supreme Court says it is, and it hasn't decided that issue yet.

jb

 

[MikeM]

There is really no excuse for busing all the way to Chicago when Amtrak could reroute via Michigan. Which Amtrak still can do.

Boardman needs to show some sense.

As for NS, if they're not paying damages to Amtrak and all the freight shippers who've been delayed... well, then they have too much power over contract writing and need to be nationalized or re-regulated.

I had a discussion with my granddaughter about this. She works for NS and claims that because the freight is time sensitive, they have priority. She stated a case where a production line could not operate without parts that are on NS freight. Seems freight lines should require customers with time sensitive shipments that they must have a wider lead time. Also seems passengers are time sensitive in many cases.

I am actually completely floored with amazement that she actually said that, and then you proceeded to report that on a public forum! As Neorden pointed out, that is admission of a patently illegal act! Oh well..... wonders never cease I suppose! I guess minimally reporting that to the STB may be in order. Though, I suspect that your grand daughter was probably not speaking based on first hand knowledge, but on the general atmosphere within the company, which in the past has been sufficient to construct a case against a company.

Oh please! I'm sure the STB will promptly drop everything and put someone's granddaughter in chains for speculating why her company isn't getting passengers across the railroad on a timely basis. I don't think it takes insider knowledge to see that things on the NS / CSX lines are AFU'd right now, and that delays are only getting worse. I'm sure if anything, shipper outcries about unshipped autos due to car shortages, delays in getting intermodal across the road, etc will keep the STB fully occupied for the time being.

The larger question will be if things keep up like this in the rail industry, at what point do we see a push start for re-regulation? It appears to be an industry wide issue now that too many lines were pulled in the 80's, and now they're sorely needed. If domestic industries are continually impacted, particularly bulk commodities like farm products, there could be a serious push for regulation which will definitely not end happy for the railroads. Hopefully they're genuinely committed to adding capacity quickly, Amtrak is just the canary in the coal mine.

 

[jis]

There is really no excuse for busing all the way to Chicago when Amtrak could reroute via Michigan. Which Amtrak still can do.

Boardman needs to show some sense.

As for NS, if they're not paying damages to Amtrak and all the freight shippers who've been delayed... well, then they have too much power over contract writing and need to be nationalized or re-regulated.

I had a discussion with my granddaughter about this. She works for NS and claims that because the freight is time sensitive, they have priority. She stated a case where a production line could not operate without parts that are on NS freight. Seems freight lines should require customers with time sensitive shipments that they must have a wider lead time. Also seems passengers are time sensitive in many cases.

I am actually completely floored with amazement that she actually said that, and then you proceeded to report that on a public forum! As Neorden pointed out, that is admission of a patently illegal act! Oh well..... wonders never cease I suppose! I guess minimally reporting that to the STB may be in order. Though, I suspect that your grand daughter was probably not speaking based on first hand knowledge, but on the general atmosphere within the company, which in the past has been sufficient to construct a case against a company.

Oh please! I'm sure the STB will promptly drop everything and put someone's granddaughter in chains for speculating why her company isn't getting passengers across the railroad on a timely basis. I don't think it takes insider knowledge to see that things on the NS / CSX lines are AFU'd right now, and that delays are only getting worse. I'm sure if anything, shipper outcries about unshipped autos due to car shortages, delays in getting intermodal across the road, etc will keep the STB fully occupied for the time being.

Who said anything about putting anyone in chains. Got to start going a bit light on the wild imagination drug intake.
So your recommendation is just because you think STB will do nothing, people should stop filing complaints with STB? interesting!

 

[Eric S]

I am actually completely floored with amazement that she actually said that, and then you proceeded to report that on a public forum! As Neorden pointed out, that is admission of a patently illegal act! Oh well..... wonders never cease I suppose! I guess minimally reporting that to the STB may be in order. Though, I suspect that your grand daughter was probably not speaking based on first hand knowledge, but on the general atmosphere within the company, which in the past has been sufficient to construct a case against a company.

Evidently, it's not illegal until the Supreme Court says it is, and it hasn't decided that issue yet.

jb

My understanding is that the law requiring that Amtrak be given priority over freight is still in place and is not in question. What is in question (or has been struck down) pertains to the performance standards developed to measure whether Amtrak has priority.

 

[jis]

My understanding is that the law requiring that Amtrak be given priority over freight is still in place and is not in question. What is in question (or has been struck down) pertains to the performance standards developed to measure whether Amtrak has priority.

As far as I understand it.... the specific law that has been struck down was about the process for developing performance standards (and hence any performance standards developed using said process). The priority thing enters peripherally in the discussion since certain performance standard metrics cannot be met without giving priority. But the fact that Amtrak should have priority according to the pre-existing law has not been in question at all in this particular case that is at the SCOTUS.

 

[Barciur]

29 and 49 on track-a-train are showing as going to Chicago. Is it just because it's a standard template or is it possible that they will not be truncated in Toledo?

 

[Slasharoo]

It seems that the situation over the past year-plus on the Empire Builder route has just emboldened other freight companies to manage their companies in the same way. It appears they have nothing to lose and much to gain. If nothing happened to BNSF, how can NS be singled out?

 

[montana mike]

Good point, my local BNSF contacts just laughed when I first raised the issue of the feds coming down on BNSF's inability to effectively manage the Hi-Line. Given the absolutely dismal performance of BNSF this past summer, and the fact that their backlogs are now increasing again, with no STB feedback at all-other than the STB will continue to monitor BNSF's performance (what a joke), I can fully appreciate why the "suits" at NS have likely said-what the heck, let's go for the gusto and do our own thing as well.