Cardinal 51 NYP-CHI

[edolan]

Hello, everyone,

Just wanted to ask which side of the WB Cardinal had better views — specifically in WV. Taking it the full length tomorrow in coach and was hoping to see some stunning scenery.

- Thanks

 

[TinCan782]

Headed west to Chicago, I'd say the left side of the train...in particular when going through the New River Gorge.
BTW, daylight is likely to be better when traveling east bound.
We did both directions last fall....Chicago to Alexandria round trip.

 

[edolan]

Thank you! Looked into the daylight but decided a very late arrival back into penn wasn’t worth it — so I went with the WB.

 

[Cal]

I am taking the Cardinal westbound this summer, hopefully my roomette is on the left side.

 

[MARC Rider]

The left side of the train, going from Charlottesville to Staunton, you get a nice view of the Blue Ridge as you climb out of Charlottesville, and it's right after lunchtime, so it will definitely be in the daylight.

 

[edolan]

On the train now — snagged a seat on the left — I have my books and my snacks so its gonna be a good ride!

 

[dlagrua]

The Cardinal is the nicest scenic ride NYC- CHI but it is long at about 28 hours. What we like about it is the stop at WAS Union Station where there is a 45 minute layover to change engines. We usually get off the train and go into the station for Starbucks Coffee and pick up a pastry at Laduree. In 2020 on our August trip to Glacier most everything was closed but Starbucks was open. When the engines are all changed over to diesel/electric the WAS stop may be a short one and the snack break at the station may be gone.

 

[Cal]

The Cardinal is the nicest scenic ride NYC- CHI but it is long at about 28 hours. What we like about it is the stop at WAS Union Station where there is a 45 minute layover to change engines. We usually get off the train and go into the station for Starbucks Coffee and pick up a pastry at Laduree. In 2020 on our August trip to Glacier most everything was closed but Starbucks was open. When the engines are all changed over to diesel/electric the WAS stop may be a short one and the snack break at the station may be gone.

Can you easily exit/enter the platform? Will you be asked to show a ticket to get back on the platform?

 

[John Santos]

... When the engines are all changed over to diesel/electric the WAS stop may be a short one and the snack break at the station may be gone.

"Diesel/Electric" does NOT mean "dual-mode." Most if not all diesel locomotives are diesel/electric. The diesel engine runs a generator which powers the electric motors which drive the wheels. This is unlike a diesel truck, where the diesel engine's crankshaft is directly connected to a transmission that drives the wheels.

"Dual-mode" locomotives also have the wheels powered by electric motors, but the electricity can come from an overhead catenary wire or from a third rail. (Usually, one or the other, not both.) When not connected to external electric power, the locomotive uses an on-board diesel engine and generator, just like a diesel/electric.

Amtrak has a very small number of dual mode locomotives, mostly used for the Empire service and LSL between Penn Station and Albany. Somewhere (I don't know where) between Manhattan and Albany, they switch to diesel mode. Usually, in Albany, the dual-modes are swapped for regular diesel/electrics. I think the dual-mode locos are slower, less efficient and require more maintenance than either the diesel/electrics or the pure electrics, so they only use dual-modes where they have to.

Southbound, the electrification ends in Washington, so they switch locos there (for the Crescent, the Meteors, the Cardinal and the other NEC trains that continue south.) I believe the Pennsylvania service switches at Philadelphia (though some of that line might be electrified) and Northbound, the Vermonter switches at New Haven.

The new diesel/electric locomotives Amtrak has ordered will replace the existing P42 locomotives. They've also ordered new electric locomotives to replace the existing locos on the NEW. I'm not sure if they have ordered new dual-modes, but if so, I don't think there will be more dual-modes then they have currently, and the new dual-modes won't be used where they aren't now (i.e. the Hudson River line.)

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Can you easily exit/enter the platform? Will you be asked to show a ticket to get back on the platform?

You can exit the platform without an issue. You may or may not need a ticket to get back to the platform. Also, going up to the station is not advisable on the Cardinal going eastbound or if the train is late since the stop length is highly variable and the train can leave early when traveling towards NYP.

 

[Cal]

You can exit the platform without an issue. You may or may not need a ticket to get back to the platform. Also, going up to the station is not advisable on the Cardinal going eastbound or if the train is late since the stop length is highly variable and the train can leave early when traveling towards NYP.

Okay, thanks

 

[PVD]

The P32-DM for the Westside connections out of NYP switch to diesel exiting the tunnel box coming out of NYP into the open cut...

 

[OBS]

"Diesel/Electric" does NOT mean "dual-mode." Most if not all diesel locomotives are diesel/electric. The diesel engine runs a generator which powers the electric motors which drive the wheels. This is unlike a diesel truck, where the diesel engine's crankshaft is directly connected to a transmission that drives the wheels.

"Dual-mode" locomotives also have the wheels powered by electric motors, but the electricity can come from an overhead catenary wire or from a third rail. (Usually, one or the other, not both.) When not connected to external electric power, the locomotive uses an on-board diesel engine and generator, just like a diesel/electric.

Amtrak has a very small number of dual mode locomotives, mostly used for the Empire service and LSL between Penn Station and Albany. Somewhere (I don't know where) between Manhattan and Albany, they switch to diesel mode. Usually, in Albany, the dual-modes are swapped for regular diesel/electrics. I think the dual-mode locos are slower, less efficient and require more maintenance than either the diesel/electrics or the pure electrics, so they only use dual-modes where they have to.

Southbound, the electrification ends in Washington, so they switch locos there (for the Crescent, the Meteors, the Cardinal and the other NEC trains that continue south.) I believe the Pennsylvania service switches at Philadelphia (though some of that line might be electrified) and Northbound, the Vermonter switches at New Haven.

The new diesel/electric locomotives Amtrak has ordered will replace the existing P42 locomotives. They've also ordered new electric locomotives to replace the existing locos on the NEW. I'm not sure if they have ordered new dual-modes, but if so, I don't think there will be more dual-modes then they have currently, and the new dual-modes won't be used where they aren't now (i.e. the Hudson River line.)

My interpretation of his statement was he meant "to diesel going South and Electric going North"

 

[edolan]

The P32-DM for the Westside connections out of NYP switch to diesel exiting the tunnel box coming out of NYP into the open cut...

Does it switch back to electric at Spuytin-Duyvil until Croton-Harmon or does it remain diesel despite Metro North 3rd rail?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Does it switch back to electric at Spuytin-Duyvil until Croton-Harmon or does it remain diesel despite Metro North 3rd rail?

No, it stays diesel. Metro-North uses under running third rail, whereas Amtrak and the LIRR use over running third rail.

 

[PaTrainFan]

For the first time in all my years riding The Pennsylvanian, this past Sunday I noticed that Amtrak is using electrics all the way between New York and Harrisburg. It's been a couple years since I last took the route, but previously the switch had been made in Philadelphia.

I believe the Pennsylvania service switches at Philadelphia (though some of that line might be electrified) and Northbound, the Vermonter switches at New Haven.

 

[PVD]

Does it switch back to electric at Spuytin-Duyvil until Croton-Harmon or does it remain diesel despite Metro North 3rd rail?

It stays diesel all the way up once it exits NYP. The P32AC-DM is not meant for long third rail runs... its design max speed on third rail is 60, on diesel 110. although it is a 12cyl instead of the 16cyl on the P42, thus having a good bit less power, they will get up to speed, especially with the short trains. Takes a bit longer, but they can do it. When the Lake Shore was not being joined in Albany, with a stub doing the Boston leg, a single P32 pulled the whole Lake up from NYP to ALB before it was switched out for the P42's.

 

[railiner]

For the first time in all my years riding The Pennsylvanian, this past Sunday I noticed that Amtrak is using electrics all the way between New York and Harrisburg. It's been a couple years since I last took the route, but previously the switch had been made in Philadelphia.

Unless a New York to Harrisburg (and beyond) train is going to bypass 30th Street Station, via the "New York and Pittsburgh Subway" at Zoo Tower, like most of the thru trains did in the PRR era, and make North Philadelphia, "the only station-stop in Philadelphia"; they would have to change direction's at 30th Street Station, so it makes sense to do the power change there. For trains just running from Philly to Harrisburg, then they could run just electrics....

 

[PaTrainFan]

Unless a New York to Harrisburg (and beyond) train is going to bypass 30th Street Station, via the "New York and Pittsburgh Subway" at Zoo Tower, like most of the thru trains did in the PRR era, and make North Philadelphia, "the only station-stop in Philadelphia"; they would have to change direction's at 30th Street Station, so it makes sense to do the power change there. For trains just running from Philly to Harrisburg, then they could run just electrics....

Right. Previously, they made the diesel-electric switch at Philadelphia.

 

[railiner]

Right. Previously, they made the diesel-electric switch at Philadelphia.

So now, does the road crew do the switching at Harrisburg, or do they employ forces there for that? They would also have to have forces to maintain the diesel there, maybe fuel it, etc...
I can't think of many advantages of going back to changing power in Harrisburg, other than some fuel savings....it would also require some added time in the schedule.

 

[OBS]

It may have been a one time thing where they were short on diesels and wanted to short turn it or something...

 

[jis]

It may have been a one time thing where they were short on diesels and wanted to short turn it or something...

Yup.

Normally the Pennsylvanian changes power in Philadelphia. It was most likely a one time thing for some reason. For some reason they did not have a diesel available at Philly and they short turned the diesel from the Eastbound Pennsylvanian at Harrisburg.