Cardinal discussion

[west point]

Actually to run a daily Card to NYP reliably one would require two additional consists, with outrageously horrible equipment utilization, whereas the scheme discussed above requires only one additional single level consist for daily reliable service on both trains with better equipment utilization.

Well yes and no. Sunday's trains do wait until Tuesday to leave CHI and NYP. But often mainly in NYP cars do get swapped around with Crescent, Silvers, & LSL. Hardly ever with LSL in CHI. Maybe a few more overnight maintenance persons at SSY would keep all trains better OTP departures at NYP?

 

[Cal]

They cannot relay and service it in Sunnyside overnight in less than 9 hour

Doesn't the EB get serviced in Seattle in 6.5 hours?

 

[zephyr17]

Doesn't the EB get serviced in Seattle in 6.5 hours?

Yes, but the Seattle Coach Yard is a lot less busy than Sunnyside. Also, if inbound 7 is even a little late, outbound 8 is going to be delayed.

 

[jis]

Well yes and no. Sunday's trains do wait until Tuesday to leave CHI and NYP. But often mainly in NYP cars do get swapped around with Crescent, Silvers, & LSL. Hardly ever with LSL in CHI. Maybe a few more overnight maintenance persons at SSY would keep all trains better OTP departures at NYP?

Actually I am straight paraphrasing what I was told to me by one of the managers at Sunnyside regarding servicing a Cardinal arriving near midnight and departing at 6am, even with a night shift. They will never staff up Sunnyside for just one train. Sunnyside night shift was destaffed during Boardman's time who was not exactly anti service, but he was under similar operating budget stresses that BIL has not removed. All that it did is throw a bunch of Capital Money (which is a good thing) but does not address operating budget issues, which caused Sunnyside night shift to be discontinued.

Operating budget comes out of annual appropriations, which is probably facing significant head winds come FY26.

 

[zephyr17]

They will never staff up Sunnyside for just one train. Sunnyside night shift was destaffed during Boardman's time

I am kind of assuming that you meant that night shift staffing was drasticly reduced, not eliminated entirely. There are some trains that need to be turned/serviced overnight, like the Maple Leaf (arrives NYP 9:16 pm, departs 7:15 am) and somebody at Sunnyside has to do it.

I recognize turning an LD train overnight is more involved than a corridor one, even if Sunnyside was its "away" terminal, so your main point stands. I just am curious if the night shift was actually entirely eliminated.

 

[jis]

I am kind of assuming that you meant that night shift staffing was drasticly reduced, not eliminated entirely. There are some trains that need to be turned/serviced overnight, like the Maple Leaf (arrives NYP 9:16 pm, departs 7:15 am) and somebody at Sunnyside has to do it.

I recognize turning an LD Sleeper train overnight is more involved than a corridor one, even if Sunnyside was its "away" terminal, so your main point stands. I just am curious if the night shift was actually entirely eliminated.

Yes, The Overnight Sleeper/Diner night shift was eliminated. The Day Train night shift was reduced but is still there for obvious reasons.

For all the single level LD trains into NYP other than the Florida trains, it is more or less their home terminal. All of them overnight in New York, and some of them do not overnight at the other end.

 

[dlagrua]

Our recent trip on the SW Chief /Cardinal was less than desirable. The SW Chief coupled on two private cars in Anburqurque and took them off at Kansas City. This along with a line delay ate up 4 hours of time. This made it impossible to catch the Cardinal at CHI that would take us to PHL. As a solution Amtrak sends a bus at Galesburg, IL and says that we can take the bus and board at Indianapolis (after a 5 hr bus trip). When we arrive at Indianapolis the elevator was broken so it was three flights up to the platform. The Cardinal pulls in 15 minutes later and we board only to find someone sleeping in Bedroom B that we paid for. The attendant jumps in with the conductor to evict the squatter and clean up the room. We finally get into the room after midnight wanting to clean up only to find that the squatter had used up all of the water for the shower. We finally got to bed around 1 AM. We will write Amtrak about this true terrible experience.

 

[leccy]

Does the Cardinal get serviced at all in Chicago? Or does every run have to go through Sunnyside?

 

[Palmland]

Yes, The Overnight Sleeper/Diner night shift was eliminated. The Day Train night shift was reduced but is still there for obvious reasons.

Why two different shifts for LD and day trains? The SCA’s have beds made upon arrival. Cleaning sleeper rooms, coaches, rest rooms, emptying trash, shouldn’t be much different between a coach and sleepers. I would think the cost of an additional cleaner or two would be more than offset by improved utilization that would increase capacity/revenue.

Perhaps the economics of cleaning a once a day 17 car AutoTrain in 5 hours or so should be followed elsewhere. When you step off that train the cleaners are waiting to get on. Perhaps some of that capital money could be used to make Sunnyside more efficient.

 

[Willbridge]

Our recent trip on the SW Chief /Cardinal was less than desirable. The SW Chief coupled on two private cars in Anburqurque and took them off at Kansas City. This along with a line delay ate up 4 hours of time. This made it impossible to catch the Cardinal at CHI that would take us to PHL. As a solution Amtrak sends a bus at Galesburg, IL and says that we can take the bus and board at Indianapolis (after a 5 hr bus trip). When we arrive at Indianapolis the elevator was broken so it was three flights up to the platform. The Cardinal pulls in 15 minutes later and we board only to find someone sleeping in Bedroom B that we paid for. The attendant jumps in with the conductor to evict the squatter and clean up the room. We finally get into the room after midnight wanting to clean up only to find that the squatter had used up all of the water for the shower. We finally got to bed around 1 AM. We will write Amtrak about this true terrible experience.

Was the bus actually a special run or was it the regular Burlington Trailways Amtrak Thruway schedule with intermediate stops? I've used that from Denver to Indianapolis.

Why two different shifts for LD and day trains? The SCA’s have beds made upon arrival. Cleaning sleeper rooms, coaches, rest rooms, emptying trash, shouldn’t be much different between a coach and sleepers. I would think the cost of an additional cleaner or two would be more than offset by improved utilization that would increase capacity/revenue.

Perhaps the economics of cleaning a once a day 17 car AutoTrain in 5 hours or so should be followed elsewhere. When you step off that train the cleaners are waiting to get on. Perhaps some of that capital money could be used to make Sunnyside more efficient.

Cleaning a diner takes longer. I've seen SP&S Train 2 head out of Portland with heavyweight diner "Willamette" - complete with flowers in cut-glass vases - because the regular lightweight diner "Columbia" could not be turned in time. The rest of the consist was okay to go east. That turn was scheduled in eight hours, but Train 1 came in late.

 

[zephyr17]

Was the bus actually a special run or was it the regular Burlington Trailways Amtrak Thruway schedule with intermediate stops? I've used that from Denver to Indianapolis.

Well, the only scheduled Galesburg-Indy bus on Burlington Trailways is the one leaving GBB at 12:50 that Amtrak Thruway codeshares on. I checked their schedule independently. That timing doesn't fit the lateness of the SW Chief as described, nor does arriving just 15 minutes before the Card at IND. So my strong suspicion is it was a charter. That doesn't rule out Burlington Trailways, they do charters and have a relationship with Amtrak.

Our recent trip on the SW Chief /Cardinal was less than desirable. The SW Chief coupled on two private cars in Anburqurque and took them off at Kansas City. This along with a line delay ate up 4 hours of time. This made it impossible to catch the Cardinal at CHI that would take us to PHL. As a solution Amtrak sends a bus at Galesburg, IL and says that we can take the bus and board at Indianapolis (after a 5 hr bus trip). When we arrive at Indianapolis the elevator was broken so it was three flights up to the platform. The Cardinal pulls in 15 minutes later and we board only to find someone sleeping in Bedroom B that we paid for. The attendant jumps in with the conductor to evict the squatter and clean up the room. We finally get into the room after midnight wanting to clean up only to find that the squatter had used up all of the water for the shower. We finally got to bed around 1 AM. We will write Amtrak about this true terrible experience.

A good example of why I never schedule a eastbound same day sleeper connection in Chicago. I've arrived in Chicago 6-14 hours from all three West Coast-Chicago LDs more times than I can count. Most of the time, I was heading to Indy, and did have same day coach connections, so I could be laid over and just get another seat the next day. The potential of losing a room is a much bigger deal to me. When I started making sleeper trips all the way to the East Coast, I'd already learned my lesson.

And IND is an absolute pit. Top contender for Amtrak's Worst Staffed Station.

 

[dlagrua]

To answer the question; the only ones that boarded the Trailways bus at Galesburg, IL for IND were Amtrak SWC passengers. It was a thrilling ride as we had to go around a dust storm that closed the highway but five hours later we caught the Card. The bus driver was a senior but he did an excellent job. I hope that he was allowed a stay-over after that trip ordeal.The bigger question was how could someone could have taken our room without being noticed?

 

[dcipjr]

Our recent trip on the SW Chief /Cardinal was less than desirable. The SW Chief coupled on two private cars in Anburqurque and took them off at Kansas City. This along with a line delay ate up 4 hours of time. This made it impossible to catch the Cardinal at CHI that would take us to PHL. As a solution Amtrak sends a bus at Galesburg, IL and says that we can take the bus and board at Indianapolis (after a 5 hr bus trip). When we arrive at Indianapolis the elevator was broken so it was three flights up to the platform. The Cardinal pulls in 15 minutes later and we board only to find someone sleeping in Bedroom B that we paid for. The attendant jumps in with the conductor to evict the squatter and clean up the room. We finally get into the room after midnight wanting to clean up only to find that the squatter had used up all of the water for the shower. We finally got to bed around 1 AM. We will write Amtrak about this true terrible experience.

I had a similar experience back in 2021—the Southwest Chief was running very late and we got pulled off at Galesburg with about 10 minutes' notice, then bussed to Indianapolis.

Once we got to Indianapolis—which didn't have any Amtrak personnel on duty—I found out (on my phone) that the Cardinal had not even left Chicago. It finally wound up picking us up at 3 AM in Indianapolis.

Don't write to them. Call them. Ask to speak with Customer Relations. I wound up getting about $800 worth of Amtrak vouchers by recounting the story to a representative.

A good example of why I never schedule a eastbound same day sleeper connection in Chicago. I've arrived in Chicago 6-14 hours from all three West Coast-Chicago LDs more times than I can count. Most of the time, I was heading to Indy, and did have same day coach connections, so I could be laid over and just get another seat the next day. The potential of losing a room is a much bigger deal to me. When I started making sleeper trips all the way to the East Coast, I'd already learned my lesson.

And IND is an absolute pit. Top contender for Amtrak's Worst Staffed Station.

Yeah, I didn't learn my lesson since I'm connecting from #4 to #50 in three weeks' time.

Indianapolis was a dingy, creepy, hole-in-the-ground of a station. I got a hotel room nearby last-minute for a few bucks, and wound up resting there for a few hours prior to the delayed-Cardinal arriving at 3 AM, and was seriously considering just going home on a flight until the Cardinal finally started moving from Chicago, and it was evident that it would come pick us up and that we wouldn't be stranded for 2 days or bussed to Philly.

But if I needed a hotel room anyway, might as well be in Chicago. And if the train's on time, I can just spend more time in Chicago—which I always enjoy.

Next time, I'll seriously consider your approach.

 

[Kate B]

In my past experiences on the western LD trains, our car attendant always knew exactly who was supposed to be there. I find it surprising that he/she didn't know that person didn't belong, but maybe this was a very lax attendant.

 

[jis]

Why two different shifts for LD and day trains? The SCA’s have beds made upon arrival. Cleaning sleeper rooms, coaches, rest rooms, emptying trash, shouldn’t be much different between a coach and sleepers. I would think the cost of an additional cleaner or two would be more than offset by improved utilization that would increase capacity/revenue.

I don't know absolutely anything beyond what I was told.

Perhaps the economics of cleaning a once a day 17 car AutoTrain in 5 hours or so should be followed elsewhere. When you step off that train the cleaners are waiting to get on. Perhaps some of that capital money could be used to make Sunnyside more efficient.

Auto Train is a completely different ball game with completely different levels of staffing, Union contracts and what not, so the two apparently are not comparable, or so I am told. It is apparent to me that all this has a lot to do with Union Management interaction and such, of which I have next to zero understanding.

 

[Asher]

I was 7 hrs late getting into Chicago with a connection on the Cap. to DC. All the information I got from Amtrak was get in line at the info desk, maybe a lay over or ? Luckily got on the LSL at the last second.

 

[Amtrak25]

I would not risk eastbound same day Chicago connections off a trans-con at all. We are beyond that day and age, between Class I PSR, derailments, and Amtrak's broken down loco fleet - old and new.

Get off at places like Joliet, Naperville, and Glenview, stay in a suburban motel, and take Metra in the next morning.

 

[JWM]

Can't help but point out a connection in the 1950's at Petersburg, VA between the "Powhatan Arrow" and a train name I can't remember on the Atlantic Coast Line. The departure time for the "Powhatan Arrow" and the ACL train were the same and it was a valid connection. How far we have fallen

 

[flitcraft]

I would not risk eastbound same day Chicago connections off a trans-con at all. We are beyond that day and age, between Class I PSR, derailments, and Amtrak's broken down loco fleet - old and new.

Get off at places like Joliet, Naperville, and Glenview, stay in a suburban motel, and take Metra in the next morning.

Seriously good advice. We almost always book a hotel in Chicago within the Loop and schedule our onward train for the next day. But it's getting pricier to stay within a reasonable walk from Union Station, unfortunately, so your idea of staying somewhere in the outer 'burbs has appeal. Any advice on hotels within walking distance of those stations, anyone?

 

[Amtrak25]

Not walking distance, and I don't know a thing about Joliet.

Naperville has a commercial strip of numerous hotels, which can be gotten to by a PACE bus or taxi northeast of the railroad. You can also backtrack on Metra to Aurora where there's a hotel adjacent to that station.

For Glenview, take a Metra train south one stop to Golf, and walk down Waukegan Road for a couple of roadside motels. I did just that in 2012 when I got off a 5 hour late #8. PACE buses around there don't run weekends until you get down to Dempster, though one originates at Glenview, the 422 or something like that.

I would not want be around Chicago after 8pm or 9pm and getting on CTA or wandering around the Loop anymore.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Seriously good advice. We almost always book a hotel in Chicago within the Loop and schedule our onward train for the next day. But it's getting pricier to stay within a reasonable walk from Union Station, unfortunately, so your idea of staying somewhere in the outer 'burbs has appeal. Any advice on hotels within walking distance of those stations, anyone?

Been mentioned many times, but the Hostel International in Chicago on Congress is a wonderful place, with Dorm and Private Rooms that are 1/3 to 1/2 the Chicago Hotels!

 

[Tinkerbell]

Been mentioned many times, but the Hostel International in Chicago on Congress is a wonderful place, with Dorm and Private Rooms that are 1/3 to 1/2 the Chicago Hotels!

Have to agree with the HI Hostel in Chicago. Stayed there when I flew in from New Zealand for my first visit to Chicago last year. And I'm booked in there in September for my next visit when I get off the CZ.

 

[dlagrua]

There are websites where you can get "last minute" bargain prices on hotels. If a room is unsold many hotels will let it go for a low price, Hotel Tonight, Hotwire and even major hotels like Marriott have deals

 

[JoeRids]

I know this has probably been answered in other posts, but do I have it correct that Viewliner roomettes have odd numbered rooms on right side, even numbered on left side? Barring a major issue, I believe Viewliners are always marshaled the same way (unlike Superliners).

 

[zephyr17]

I know this has probably been answered in other posts, but do I have it correct that Viewliner roomettes have odd numbered rooms on right side, even numbered on left side? Barring a major issue, I believe Viewliners are always marshaled the same way (unlike Superliners).

My experience on the Lake Shore is Viewliners on that train have always been positioned vestibule forward, putting even roomettes on the left.