trimetbusfan
OBS Chief
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Cardinal discussion
- Thread starter BlackDiamond
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Is this a new practice? I have only encountered this one time and it was considered an aberration then. The other dozen or so times I have been on the Boston sleeper on the Lake Shore the bedrooms were forward. Then again I have successfully avoided the Lake Shore since our last trip in 2019.
Wasn’t there some requirement that the sleeper next to the diner have its vestibule next to the diner for emergency exit for the diner? But I guess that doesn’t mean any other sleepers have to have their vestibule forward too.
That is my recollection for the reason as well. But every time I've ridden the Lake Shore, both the 11 and 12 cars have been oriented the same direction, with vestibules forward. No roomette end to roomette end or bedroom end to bedroom end as is common on Superliner trains.
trimetbusfan
OBS Chief
I think you are right. I was thinking of something else.
Can I call Amtrak and have them note we don't want the bottom beds made up in our rooms? We board at 3am ish, husband likes sleeping sitting up. Me and the kid take top bunks. I felt bad undoing the attendants work knowing they have plenty of others to take care of.
Truth!You are certainly free to call and make that request, but the chances of it getting passed down to the attendant are about the square root of 0.SQUAT!
That kinda sucksYou are certainly free to call and make that request, but the chances of it getting passed down to the attendant are about the square root of 0.SQUAT!
. Trying to save em some workIf there were easy to find numbers for the train stations I wonder if it would be possible for a station agent to pass along a note. Maybe Charlottesville or something like that where the station is staffed and busy enough that the train is at the station for a few minutes and there might be time to rely the message.That kinda sucks
My wife and I took a quick Thursday-through-Saturday trip to Chicago from Indianapolis this weekend. We booked a roomette for each leg, and tried to make it a "dry run" for our CHI-EMY-FNO-EMY-LA-CHI trip coming up at the end of the month.
Based on recommendations here and elsewhere we embarked with plenty of chargers, cables, power cubes, battery packs, etc. Also, my new Uniden Bearcat BC125AT scanner programmed to the railroad frequencies, the Speedometer: GPS Speedometer app, the Amtrak app, and my link to asm.transitdocs.
The trip up to Chicago was pretty straightforward. We started out just a bit late and there were a couple of slow downs, but we arrived just a few minutes late. A delicious three-egg omelet from the Flexible Dining Menu was great, the chicken sausage particularly tasty. Our car attendant (Is it permissible to give out attendant names for positive comments?) took good care of us, staying sharp the entire trip. We were the second sleeping car from the rear baggage car, a VL1 according to the attendant, with toilet and limited overhead storage on the aisle side of the room, and a single wall receptacle above the sink area. The Uniden scanner was really helpful in understanding the causes of the few delays we experienced.
The return trip was more of an adventure, starting with an undefined "mechanical problem" that prevented the outbound train from being staged until a few minutes after the scheduled departure time. Whatever the problem was, it got sorted such that we departed only 30 minutes off schedule. It was slow going out of Chicago to just north of Dyer, but we started making up time through Rensselaer and Lafayette. But, about 8 miles north of Crawfordsville, the engineer suddenly stopped the train. Here's where the Uniden came in quite handy. Apparently, there is a hot bearing detector on the track at that location and a high heat condition under the cafe car was detected.
The crew talked about possible courses of action to better understand what was going on, and after 10 minutes or so of discussion decided to assign a crew member to each side of the train to look under the cafe car. So far, no announcement of any kind to the passengers, but we could look out our windows to see a crew member, with bright flashlight, walking beside the train. That sight was apparently a bit too disconcerting for at least one passenger, as we were to learn a little later, because the passenger called Amtrak police to report the stoppage and that passengers were being forced to de-board! The Uniden picked up that report a few minutes later when Amtrak police contacted the engineer to convey the passenger report. The crew then made an announcement in a tone that showed only a little irritation, "The train is stopped for a mechanical problem. No passengers are de-boarding, crew have been dispatched to observe the underside of the car to assist with troubleshooting, etc. Please do not call Amtrak police again. We are working to resolve the issue."
It was about this time that the crew members reported back to the engineer - high heat on one axle and one wheel, high heat on a second axle and the opposite wheel. Nobody among the crew had seen this situation before, and at this point the engineer contacted the responsible dispatcher (I presume Chicago, but not sure) to report the stoppage and the troubleshooting findings. The dispatcher apparently gave the engineer some grief about the Amtrak police report. (This is where the Uniden is limited since you are only hearing one side of some of the communication unless the engineer repeats everything.) Then, there were several minutes of back and forth between the train crew and the dispatcher and the maintenance chief at the dispatcher's location. They talked about potential causes - dragging brake, wheel bearings, etc.
In the meantime there was discussion about moving the train off the main trunk line to a siding at Crawfordsville until a decision could be made about next steps. The dispatcher wanted another heat check before authorizing a slow advance to the next station. The train crew was skeptical of waiting at Crawfordsville given a lack of resources and limited or non-existent siding capability (I didn't quite understand this concern). They seemed to be advocating for a slow roll to Indy where Beech Grove could more easily be involved. The heat check indicated things had cooled down. So the dispatcher authorized the train to proceed to Crawfordsville at no more than 30 mph, but explicitly did not authorize continuing to Indy.
Meanwhile, the crew had observed that a manual brake (seemingly a rotary wheel arrangement) in the cafe car was not secured. (The inbound NY crew was accused as culpable.) Further, they determined that it had been partially deployed. So, more discussion among the crew and another heat check in Crawfordsville yielding normal temperatures. This led to a sheepish communication between the train engineer and the dispatcher, "we have good news..." An unnamed passenger messing with the unsecured manual brake wheel was blamed for the partial deployment.
For those of you wondering...Yes, I did enter the cafe car, but only to buy a couple of beers, AND I didn't touch anything else! <smile>
The dispatcher authorized a 30 mph speed to Indianapolis, and we arrived a little more than two hours behind schedule. My most interesting Amtrak trip!
Our attendant claimed not to know the designation of our car, but it was a similar configuration to the VL1 we rode up on, just no toilet, more storage space above the entry door, and an electronic thermostat instead of the dial unit on the VL1. So, I don't know if the car was a modified version of the original VL1 or if the differences I described make this the VL2 I've read about in these discussions.
Given the limited communication to the passengers from the crew, the Uniden really proved its worth on this trip. Thanks to all of you on this board for encouraging me to consider purchasing this necessary tool. Shout out to zephyr17, TinCan782, Devil's Advocate, joelkfla, Trucker72, Eric in East County, Trollopian.
But, if Amtrak is listening...it is hard to over-communicate, when people don't have the information they feel they need, they begin filling in the perceived holes with conjecture...all bad. Just communicate.
Based on recommendations here and elsewhere we embarked with plenty of chargers, cables, power cubes, battery packs, etc. Also, my new Uniden Bearcat BC125AT scanner programmed to the railroad frequencies, the Speedometer: GPS Speedometer app, the Amtrak app, and my link to asm.transitdocs.
The trip up to Chicago was pretty straightforward. We started out just a bit late and there were a couple of slow downs, but we arrived just a few minutes late. A delicious three-egg omelet from the Flexible Dining Menu was great, the chicken sausage particularly tasty. Our car attendant (Is it permissible to give out attendant names for positive comments?) took good care of us, staying sharp the entire trip. We were the second sleeping car from the rear baggage car, a VL1 according to the attendant, with toilet and limited overhead storage on the aisle side of the room, and a single wall receptacle above the sink area. The Uniden scanner was really helpful in understanding the causes of the few delays we experienced.
The return trip was more of an adventure, starting with an undefined "mechanical problem" that prevented the outbound train from being staged until a few minutes after the scheduled departure time. Whatever the problem was, it got sorted such that we departed only 30 minutes off schedule. It was slow going out of Chicago to just north of Dyer, but we started making up time through Rensselaer and Lafayette. But, about 8 miles north of Crawfordsville, the engineer suddenly stopped the train. Here's where the Uniden came in quite handy. Apparently, there is a hot bearing detector on the track at that location and a high heat condition under the cafe car was detected.
The crew talked about possible courses of action to better understand what was going on, and after 10 minutes or so of discussion decided to assign a crew member to each side of the train to look under the cafe car. So far, no announcement of any kind to the passengers, but we could look out our windows to see a crew member, with bright flashlight, walking beside the train. That sight was apparently a bit too disconcerting for at least one passenger, as we were to learn a little later, because the passenger called Amtrak police to report the stoppage and that passengers were being forced to de-board! The Uniden picked up that report a few minutes later when Amtrak police contacted the engineer to convey the passenger report. The crew then made an announcement in a tone that showed only a little irritation, "The train is stopped for a mechanical problem. No passengers are de-boarding, crew have been dispatched to observe the underside of the car to assist with troubleshooting, etc. Please do not call Amtrak police again. We are working to resolve the issue."
It was about this time that the crew members reported back to the engineer - high heat on one axle and one wheel, high heat on a second axle and the opposite wheel. Nobody among the crew had seen this situation before, and at this point the engineer contacted the responsible dispatcher (I presume Chicago, but not sure) to report the stoppage and the troubleshooting findings. The dispatcher apparently gave the engineer some grief about the Amtrak police report. (This is where the Uniden is limited since you are only hearing one side of some of the communication unless the engineer repeats everything.) Then, there were several minutes of back and forth between the train crew and the dispatcher and the maintenance chief at the dispatcher's location. They talked about potential causes - dragging brake, wheel bearings, etc.
In the meantime there was discussion about moving the train off the main trunk line to a siding at Crawfordsville until a decision could be made about next steps. The dispatcher wanted another heat check before authorizing a slow advance to the next station. The train crew was skeptical of waiting at Crawfordsville given a lack of resources and limited or non-existent siding capability (I didn't quite understand this concern). They seemed to be advocating for a slow roll to Indy where Beech Grove could more easily be involved. The heat check indicated things had cooled down. So the dispatcher authorized the train to proceed to Crawfordsville at no more than 30 mph, but explicitly did not authorize continuing to Indy.
Meanwhile, the crew had observed that a manual brake (seemingly a rotary wheel arrangement) in the cafe car was not secured. (The inbound NY crew was accused as culpable.) Further, they determined that it had been partially deployed. So, more discussion among the crew and another heat check in Crawfordsville yielding normal temperatures. This led to a sheepish communication between the train engineer and the dispatcher, "we have good news..." An unnamed passenger messing with the unsecured manual brake wheel was blamed for the partial deployment.
For those of you wondering...Yes, I did enter the cafe car, but only to buy a couple of beers, AND I didn't touch anything else! <smile>
The dispatcher authorized a 30 mph speed to Indianapolis, and we arrived a little more than two hours behind schedule. My most interesting Amtrak trip!
Our attendant claimed not to know the designation of our car, but it was a similar configuration to the VL1 we rode up on, just no toilet, more storage space above the entry door, and an electronic thermostat instead of the dial unit on the VL1. So, I don't know if the car was a modified version of the original VL1 or if the differences I described make this the VL2 I've read about in these discussions.
Given the limited communication to the passengers from the crew, the Uniden really proved its worth on this trip. Thanks to all of you on this board for encouraging me to consider purchasing this necessary tool. Shout out to zephyr17, TinCan782, Devil's Advocate, joelkfla, Trucker72, Eric in East County, Trollopian.
But, if Amtrak is listening...it is hard to over-communicate, when people don't have the information they feel they need, they begin filling in the perceived holes with conjecture...all bad. Just communicate.
Thanks for sharing your trip, great idea to do a test run before the dream trip!
You definitely had a VII on your return trip!
And as you know, having the scanner made you more knowledgeable about what was going on than most of the Crew that don't have Radios,( OBS)including the Dummy Crew Member who didn't know what type of Sleeper you were in!
Great scanner story. Capturing those kind of events is one of the big reasons I carry one.
The engineer was talking to the CSX dispatcher, not Amtrak over the radio. Amtrak itself doesn't have the radio coverage/range there. CSX's main dispatching center is in Jacksonville, FL, IIRC, but they may have some regional ones. No doubt Amtrak PD contacted CSX urgently about that passenger report and that's how the dispatcher got it. And was no doubt perturbed about Amtrak stopping up "his" railroad. Yet another reason Amtrak is so loved by the host railroads. A gondola full of wheat does not call the cops misinterpreting things it sees. Only passengers do such things.
PS, in my favorite scanner story (which I won't go into detail here, but involved duct tape falling off the brake line), my SCA kept coming to me for updates on what was happening. He knew I had a scanner, could hear, and probably knew. The OBS crew generally doesn't know any more than the passengers do.
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Good point.
If I was OBS, I would certainly carry my own, just for my own knowledge. I am not sure if Amtrak has a rule forbidding them carrying one, but they are probably not allowed to make such knowledge known to passengers, as that is the responsibility of the Conductor…
I have never, ever seen an OBS with a scanner, and I know many if not most of them know what they are. My conclusion is, at the very least, they are strongly frowned upon. I skimmed the Service Standards Manual and it doesn't call them out specifically for any thing, though.
Technically, FCC regulations prohibit disclosure of anything overheard on a scanner to anyone. Although I've never seen FCC agents following scanner users around to shout "Hey! You told!" In the "duct tape" incident, I kept the SCA up to date, since he was a Amtrak employee. But didn't disclose anything to other passengers.
dcipjr
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2012
- Messages
- 49
I just got back from a trip, LAX-CHI-PHL, and I definitely didn't learn my lesson the first time.
The Chief was delayed right out of the gate from LAX, since they needed to perform an engine swap. We ran consistently around 1.5 hours behind until Kansas, when we encountered further delays that put us over 3 hours late.
Just like last time, the Cardinal passengers were taken off the train at Galesburg, and bussed to Indianapolis.
Fortunately, the Cardinal was on-time to pick us up.
Service was pretty good—our sleeping car attendant did a great job of keeping us fed and watered, and turning down the beds.
That said, the lowly Cardinal needs some love from Amtrak. The flex dining is adequate at best, and this train in particular suffers from lack of a lounge or diner-lounge where scenery could be viewed out both sides of the train.
We had someone come over the PA and announce things we were looking at. I befriended my neighbor across the hall, and therefore got to see both sides, but some fellow passengers in the diner expressed discontent that they heard announcements about interesting things and just couldn't see them.
The Cardinal also started picking up delays at Charlottesville, and got into Philadelphia over an hour late. Not bad, but I did miss my connection to SEPTA and had to wait around 30th St for an hour.
It was a good trip, but the train could benefit from more amenities.
Though I will say that the Viewliner I that I was in was great—I love the Viewliner equipment. Though my room was sort of freezing for part of the trip, I love sleeping up top when I'm on my own, and leaving the "downstairs" as my "living room".
I also took a Viewliner II for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I actually have to say I like the V-Is better. I think the build quality is higher, and when traveling solo, the commode in the room is super convenient.
In the future, I'll take @zephyr17 's advice and stay overnight in Chicago. I don't think I'll attempt the connection to the Cardinal again—I'm 0 for 2.
The Chief was delayed right out of the gate from LAX, since they needed to perform an engine swap. We ran consistently around 1.5 hours behind until Kansas, when we encountered further delays that put us over 3 hours late.
Just like last time, the Cardinal passengers were taken off the train at Galesburg, and bussed to Indianapolis.
Fortunately, the Cardinal was on-time to pick us up.
Service was pretty good—our sleeping car attendant did a great job of keeping us fed and watered, and turning down the beds.
That said, the lowly Cardinal needs some love from Amtrak. The flex dining is adequate at best, and this train in particular suffers from lack of a lounge or diner-lounge where scenery could be viewed out both sides of the train.
We had someone come over the PA and announce things we were looking at. I befriended my neighbor across the hall, and therefore got to see both sides, but some fellow passengers in the diner expressed discontent that they heard announcements about interesting things and just couldn't see them.
The Cardinal also started picking up delays at Charlottesville, and got into Philadelphia over an hour late. Not bad, but I did miss my connection to SEPTA and had to wait around 30th St for an hour.
It was a good trip, but the train could benefit from more amenities.
Though I will say that the Viewliner I that I was in was great—I love the Viewliner equipment. Though my room was sort of freezing for part of the trip, I love sleeping up top when I'm on my own, and leaving the "downstairs" as my "living room".
I also took a Viewliner II for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I actually have to say I like the V-Is better. I think the build quality is higher, and when traveling solo, the commode in the room is super convenient.
In the future, I'll take @zephyr17 's advice and stay overnight in Chicago. I don't think I'll attempt the connection to the Cardinal again—I'm 0 for 2.
west point
Engineer
Probably especially anyone traveling this Summer as there may be heat restrictions and the ever present debris on tracks due to storms.
For many reasons, do not plan on same day connections in Chicago, period, or for that matter between Amtrak in Rensselaer and Greyhound/Trailways/Peter Pan in Albany. Google Maps does a great job of scouting out hotel accomodations.
just about ready to get off the Cardinal at Indianapolis. both sleepers are VL1 today. i took video proof this time in case i got myself turned around about the 5100 and 5109 cars.
Does that mean no Sleeper/Dorm - Baggage car which are all VL-II by definition ?
I took the Cardinal when it was a Superliner with a Sightseer Car. If any train needs a Sightseer it’s the Cardinal. Of course being a viewliner, it’s not possible,
Starting and ending in Washington would be ideal. Superliner equipment and a Sightseer car could return. It won’t happen, but there is such great scenery on that route a lot of people are missing.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
- Messages
- 2,926
I think over time more crew members are supposed to be getting the mobile devices that the conductors have which provides more access to information on delays and what not.Thanks for sharing your trip, great idea to do a test run before the dream trip!
You definitely had a VII on your return trip!
And as you know, having the scanner made you more knowledgeable about what was going on than most of the Crew that don't have Radios,( OBS)including the Dummy Crew Member who didn't know what type of Sleeper you were in!
Haha! I just got on the Cardinal in Indy. Yep, Viewliner 1 sleepers (I have that toilet right beside me). Quite the consist today with some gifts from Beech Grove. I think we are led by two P42s followed by four superliners (two are sleepers, one looks like a diner, and I can’t tell on the other) followed by another two P42s and then the Cardinal (with full baggage car). Quite a long train today.
Yep. They've been running either:
- 1 VL-I sleeper with a VL-II bag/dorm, or
- 2 VL-I sleepers with a full baggage car.
I think I took a short video of the other consist but we spent the day at the Eugene Debs museum in Terre Haute and I took so many pictures I don't think I can find the video without scrolling for a long time. I know I took some pictures as the windows were open on the Superliner coach cars.
The conductor we had from wherever he joined (Huntington maybe) to Cincinnati three days earlier was the same conductor this morning. He get down to the station and notice our checked luggage is not there. The conductor finally brings it down and he is like "No one ever checks baggage for Cincinnati to Indianapolis." We had roomette and when we had a roomette from Greensboro to Crescent the SCA offered to check the luggage after we left the station to give us more room so we checked the next two sections. It was kinda good as the sun was down when we pulled into the station but the sun was up enough to walk a few blocks to our hotel across the street from the Colts stadium.
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