Change of times

[battalion51]

Besides the already mentioned removal of the Metroliners, several other changes will be happening around the country.

-Train 97 will operate exactly one hour later than currently scheduled.

-56/54 will leave SPG at 15:15 and arrive at SAB 21:25

-55/57 will leave SAB at 8:30 and arrive at SPG 14:40

-The bus connection from SAB to MTR has been reinstated

-449 will not operate weekdays, but will instead operate as 447 25 minutes later than 449's schedule

Those are the significant changes for this change of times. It is anticipated that there will be another big shake up of times sometime towards the end of June. Changes you can expect in that change of times:

-The Vermonter will cease operation to SAB, it will instead serve Essex Jct then head towards the new Burlington station, it is anticipated this will significantly boost ridership as many passengers dislike arriving at Essex then having to head out to Burlington, the Amtrak track car has already run out to Burlington to get data on upgrades needed for the Vermonter to roll out there, no word on maintenance facilites, personnel changes, crewbase changes, etc.

-Major Silver Service shakeups, anticipated earlier 98 slot and more seperation between 91 & 97, this will occur once the Maintenance blitz in the Carolinas is complete

Enjoy the new timetable folks, and for those who want it, get that mileage between Essex and St. Albans.

 

[Viewliner]

Thanks for the info Chief. I must say that I like the way most of these changes sound. 97 departing later is certainly an improvement in my opinion, hopefully the subsequent change to 97 will be more like its old 7:00 PM ish departure out of NYP, which I found worked out better for me as it meant I could still leave on a Thursday and be in Florida on Friday and only miss one day of school before a vacation, it was also good for say the business traveller who could leave after business hours from the city. It'll also help that 97 will serve SAV and JAX at more reasonable hours, Orlando too will have a nice lunchtime arrival. Any word on what extent 97's future changes will be too (will it be its old 7:00 slot)? Also, any plans to move 91 a little later since its got an early ORL arrival currently?

Interesting info on the Vermonter and if it'll really help ridership, all the more better. In the mean time good that theres an MTR bus restored...too bad couldnt've been rail service.

 

[gswager]

Southwest Chief has some minor changes on timetable while I was checking for fares, etc. for my upcoming trip. It'll be few minutes earlier than the old one between LAX and LSV (Las Vegas, NM). The departure time in LAX remains the same.

 

[engine999]

Its a shame that SAB will loose service, but ridership should be the key to determining what trains serve where.

 

[battalion51]

The drop of SAB is essential to that decision, since ridership would be higher to Burlington. Also, NECR has a large facility in St. Albans that has tied up the Vermonter many times.

As far as what will happen on June 23 I have no knowledge of the changes except that 92 will again serve TPA, LAK, and LKL.

 

[AlanB]

Its a shame that SAB will loose service, but ridership should be the key to determining what trains serve where.

We'll all just have to sob for sab. :lol:

 

[rile42]

I must be getting a brain freeze. What is the 449? I thought that was a section of the Lake Shore Limited?

 

[AlanB]

I must be getting a brain freeze. What is the 449? I thought that was a section of the Lake Shore Limited?

It is. But the Boston section no longer runs through Albany. You must change trains in Albany to reach points west.

 

[Trogdor]

I must be getting a brain freeze. What is the 449? I thought that was a section of the Lake Shore Limited?

It was. Now it is the Albany-Boston train. It is still named the "Lake Shore Limited," but it does not serve Chicago (perhaps a new name should be in order).

Train 449 will only operate on Saturdays and Sundays, and train 447 will operate weekdays.

 

[rile42]

HELP............I don't care what the number is going to be but will there be daily service from Albany to and from Boston after the change? If so, why is it being renumered? Will it's 449 or 447 arrival and departure times coincide with those of the LSL?

 

[AlanB]

Yes, there will still be daily service between Boston and Albany. Train #448 will run 7 days a week from Albany to Boston. Train #447 will run Monday - Friday from Boston to Albany, while train #449 will run on Saturdays and Sundays only from Boston to Albany.

All trains, 447, 448, and 449 will still make a connection with the main section of the Lake Shore Limited trains #48/49 at Albany. The reason for having two numbers 447 & 449 for the Albany bound trains is the fact that they will run on slightly different schedules. Two trains with different schedules can't use the same number.

 

[rile42]

Thanks Alan......that explains it perfectly for me now.

 

[Chatter163]

Thanks.

 

[battalion51]

We'll all just have to sob for sab. :lol:

We'll have to South Bend for St. Albans? :lol: :blink:

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Got to hand it to ya there, bat51. "CHANGE OF TIMES" That title for this thread is an appropriate description of Amtrak these days as well as for the last few years!! LOL... OBS

 

[battalion51]

I try, I try. Spoke with an Engineer tonight regarding the move of the Vermonter to Burlington, and it is definitely happening. The bus connection to Montreal will stop at St. Albans then head to the "new" Burlington station. As far as routing is concerned the train will pull past the wye at Essex Jct, make the station stop at Essex Jct, while the Conductors work the station the Engineers will setup the trailer in the lead position for the 8 mile trip to Burlington. It will be 25 MPH and take approximately 20 minutes to do. So whatever engine leads to Palmer will again take the lead at Essex Jct. (So now you will again get the inevitable, "Why are we going back to New York" question TWICE!)

 

[engine999]

Im suprised that the essex station has trouble attracting ridership from Burlington. Is it in a bad are? 8 miles is really not that far, to me it dosnt seem like it would add extra passangers.

 

[AlanB]

Im suprised that the essex station has trouble attracting ridership from Burlington. Is it in a bad are? 8 miles is really not that far, to me it dosnt seem like it would add extra passangers.

It's not the area so much as the fact that, I don't think that there's much of a station there. I'm not even sure if they open the station up for waiting, but you can't buy tickets there and I don't think that the parking lot is all that big either.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Essex Junction is a small town, with probably not enough ridership potential for the VERMONTER stop there. There is a large IBM complex about half a mile south of the ESX station, but the employees are obviously mostly locals who would not have use for the VERMONTER to get to and from work.

However with Burlington not far away, this is the closest Amtrak stop in Vermont. Perhaps Amtrak could have put on a Thruway bus/van connection between ESX and Burlington proper, but heck running the train there will be even better. Burlington has a very attractive looking Union Station and platform, sadly unused for its real purpose since the demise of the Champlain Flyer. And with a good chance that a replacement commuter service may be starting up again, this would be a point of connection between the VERMONTER and the commuter run. I'll bet they could even consider using the otherwise idle Amtrak equipment to make one of those runs, albeit late night after its arrival into Burlington and early morning in advance of the start of its run south to Washington, DC.

As of now, in the summer months when the Lake Champlain Ferry is running, it is actually easier to get to Burlington from New York City by taking the ADIRONDACK, not the VERMONTER. The station for the former is a 1/2 mile walk from the ferry dock at Port Kent, NY.

FWIW, while I believe B51, the Amtrak website does not show anything different yet -- the trains still run to St. Albans through the summer and the connecting Montreal bus that starts April 25th also connects with the VERMONTER there.

I think the impact of the loss of rail service to St. Albans would be felt more in the winter months, when passengers are using the station to access nearby ski resorts.

 

[battalion51]

The Champlain Flyer is supposedly coming back since the Vermonter will be serving Burlington station. Also keep in mind there will still be a bus connection to St. Albans from Burlington.

 

[AlanB]

I think the impact of the loss of rail service to St. Albans would be felt more in the winter months, when passengers are using the station to access nearby ski resorts.

There's only one major ski resort close enough to St. Albans for that stop to be useful and that's Jay Peak. Jay Peak, while large, is Vermont's least busy major resort.

I'm sure that far more skiers use the Waterbury-Stowe stop, which serves both Stowe Mtn. and Sugarbush, both of which are busier mountains than Jay Peak.

Of course with the loss of the bag on the Vermonter, I suspect that most skiers have simply given up on the train anyhow.

 

[Superliner Diner]

The Champlain Flyer is supposedly coming back since the Vermonter will be serving Burlington station. Also keep in mind there will still be a bus connection to St. Albans from Burlington.

The commuter train, if it comes back, will have a name different than Champlain Flyer, although it would use the same infrastructure (equipment, stations, etc.). If it does reappear, it will only be for a finite period, probably just until November of this year. The reason is not the possible rerouting of the VERMONTER, but rather the heavy road construction expected along parallel U.S. 7. That road project is scheduled to be completed by November, so the train will no longer be needed to mitigate the traffic problems. The CF was conceived for that very purpose, however the road project then ran into delays. Had the U.S. 7 work kicked off several years ago, ridership would have been higher on the train and it would have survived past the Howard Dean Administration.

It would be pure coincidence if, for at least a few months, Burlington Union Station goes from zero trains per day to several commuter runs and the VERMONTER in each direction. It will be nice to see that building return to its originally intended use!