Change on the horizon

[Bill Haithcoat]

Back to that thing about the Sunset Limited, can anybody imagine the airlines or Greyhound putting up with such consistent avoidable delays day in and day out? Why do we have to put up with it?

 

[GWR]

I can't imagine them putting up with the delays. I don't know if some of the Old Abandon lines could of been used instead.

But I presume it still doesn’t solve the real problem that their are not many people on the train, In the way to cost to service.

Also I presume the main problem is that an airline can fly quicker from Miami to LA even with the changes involved then the train.

Guy

 

[Amfleet]

Trains like the Sunset Limited and Southwest Chief do lose money, $200, per passenger. However, it seems that some people (congress) think the trains are just not getting passengers. Wrong, both trains can be sold-out especially in peak season. Now, the Sunset probably does get less patronage, but unless the government says to shut the train down I don't see why. I think Amtrak also has to be a lot more strict and forceful to these freight railraods (UP) to get their way.

 

[GWR]

Thanks for that

It leads back to the freight problem, I presume UP own most of the track so they are going to dispatch their train first on any single track.

If this is a busy corridor the states or Government should help with the cost of extra capacity.

Guy

 

[Viewliner]

Trains like the Sunset Limited and Southwest Chief do lose money, $200, per passenger. However, it seems that some people (congress) think the trains are just not getting passengers. Wrong, both trains can be sold-out especially in peak season. Now, the Sunset probably does get less patronage, but unless the government says to shut the train down I don't see why. I think Amtrak also has to be a lot more strict and forceful to these freight railraods (UP) to get their way.

W. Graham Claytor Jr. once made a point that airline passengers are funded several dollars each. Also if we could make the Sunset Limited a daily train, wouldn't that help it, after all didn't something like this happen to the Texas Eagle, where it was tri-weekly train on the verge of being scrapped, but made daily, and improving ridership?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, VIweliner, if memory servces me correctly, the Texas Eagle did improve ridership after going daily.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Wow, V-i-e-w-l-i-n-e-r, did I do a number on your name or what? Sorry about that.

 

[AlanB]

Yes, VIweliner, if memory servces me correctly, the Texas Eagle did improve ridership after going daily.

Bill,

You are correct the Eagles numbers went way up once it started running daily. People now knew that they could count on the train being there each and every day, and that they didn't need creative planning to schedule a trip. This is what hurts ridership badly on both the Cardinal and the Sunset Limited, along of course with the horrible lateness.

By the way Bill, did you know that you could edit your previous posts. In the right hand corner of each of your posts, there is a little "Edit" button. It's right next to the "Quote" button. If you click this you can then change any mistakes you may have made, like poor Viweliner's name.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Thanks, Alan!

 

[battalion51]

This is definitely what needs to happen to the Sunset. That way people can rely on the service.

 

[Viewliner]

Yes, VIweliner, if memory servces me correctly, the Texas Eagle did improve ridership after going daily.

Bill,

You are correct the Eagles numbers went way up once it started running daily. People now knew that they could count on the train being there each and every day, and that they didn't need creative planning to schedule a trip. This is what hurts ridership badly on both the Cardinal and the Sunset Limited, along of course with the horrible lateness.

By the way Bill, did you know that you could edit your previous posts. In the right hand corner of each of your posts, there is a little "Edit" button. It's right next to the "Quote" button. If you click this you can then change any mistakes you may have made, like poor Viweliner's name.

Bill, We all make mistakes. Alan Was that spelling intentional? :lol:

 

[AlanB]

Yep. :lol:

I wanted it to be the same as Bill's.

 

[Miami Joe]

Contrary to what the freights want you to believe, they are making extremely large profits. When you tack on the FRA fines and liability of defective track maintenance, they still are millions ahead. CSX doesn't even blink at 40 million dollar fines. It's all part of the gameplan.

Amtrak is supposed to have priority over freight traffic, but over the years the freightlines slowly took back control of their trains and gave priority to themselves. Amtrak came up with the idea of incentives, paying for on-time performance. So, Amtrak now pays a penalty if the train does not depart on time. I've read that these incentives are in the millions per month, but is still not enough to sway certain companies.

B)

 

[battalion51]

Yuo know I would love to work as the BA or AA dispatcher for CSX. That way I could get those damn freights out of Amtrak's way, and let Amtrak burn steel.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Way to go, B-51!!!Get those freights on a siding and out of our way!!! We have living people on board.

 

[Viewliner]

Yuo know I would love to work as the BA or AA dispatcher for CSX. That way I could get those damn freights out of Amtrak's way, and let Amtrak burn steel.

I'd love for someone to do that, but you'd get yourself canned.

 

[Superliner Diner]

I agree it would be a negative impact on the entire system were Amtrak to cancel all or part of the Sunset Limited. They need to have the time and ability to make changes to the route, schedule, and other factors before writing this train's eulogy.

Suggestions made in other threads on this forum, or by the Market Based Network Analysis include:

* Re-extending the train to Miami

* Splitting the train into LAX-NOL and NOL-ORL-(MIA) segments (perhaps running the latter on a very different schedule)

* Rerouting the train in Texas via Dallas/Fort Worth between Houston and El Paso (thus saving many many hours in overall travel time)

* Making the Sunset's western terminus in Texas and instead having the Texas Eagle make the trip to California.

Perhaps the current heavily padded timetable, the slow running through parts of Florida and Alabama, the longer route through southern Texas, and the thrice-weekly timetable are all factors in stagnant ridership and a drain on money. But given time and resources, this service can be improved significantly.

 

[Viewliner]

I agree it would be a negative impact on the entire system were Amtrak to cancel all or part of the Sunset Limited. They need to have the time and ability to make changes to the route, schedule, and other factors before writing this train's eulogy.
Suggestions made in other threads on this forum, or by the Market Based Network Analysis include:

* Re-extending the train to Miami

* Splitting the train into LAX-NOL and NOL-ORL-(MIA) segments (perhaps running the latter on a very different schedule)

* Rerouting the train in Texas via Dallas/Fort Worth between Houston and El Paso (thus saving many many hours in overall travel time)

* Making the Sunset's western terminus in Texas and instead having the Texas Eagle make the trip to California.

Perhaps the current heavily padded timetable, the slow running through parts of Florida and Alabama, the longer route through southern Texas, and the thrice-weekly timetable are all factors in stagnant ridership and a drain on money. But given time and resources, this service can be improved significantly.

I agree implimenting a few of those changes would seriously help improve its performance.

 

[Steve4031]

Sorry guys

But nobody answered my question about whether or not the

Sunset will be annulled west of New Orleans. I understand that it might be annulled east of New Orleans. Help???

 

[Amfleet]

Well according to battalion-51's origional post the Sunset will be annuled altogether next April, but I have not seen any formal release stating that. We haven't even entered the fall timetable change.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Steve,

I think we're mostly just speculating at this point. April is a long way off, and anything can happen. Even amongst Amtrak's own employees, the rumor mill is alive and well. Add to that the internet factor, and some rumors become very believable because they orginally came from a particular "source". Amtrak's employees, by the nature of their business, are spread out all over the country, and it is their specualtions, sometimes far from headquarters in Washington, which reach the hands of internet railfans and get spread around faster than the West Nile virus.

So I think nobody has taken a shot at what will ultimately happen to the Sunset, because nobody really knows for sure.

 

[Steve4031]

Well, here's my two cents. For what its worth. If they annull the Sunset east of New Orleans, that ought to free up much needed superliner equipment. This equipment could then be used to make the Sunset daily between New orleans and LA. Or the equipment could be used to shore up shortages in other parts of the system. I dont think they will get rid of the who thing.

 

[battalion51]

Wait Steve, east of NOUPT (as in Orlando) or west as in (Texas and LA)?