Cheaper price or more amenities on future new services

[Swadian Hardcore]

So, if amtrak introduces another train, like the Pittsburgher, than do you want that to be cheaper and simpler than the Pennsy, just like the Pennsy, or more expensive and better than the Pennsy?

This question applies to Amtrak trains in general, please do not focus only on individual routes.

First option means: a step down from what we have now, but cheaper.

Seceond option means: just what we have now.

Third option means: a step up from what we have now, but more expensive.

Fourth option means: I can't decide on any of the above ones.

If you want an intermediate class, do not vote on any option, not even the fourth one!

 

[Ziv]

I would like to pay a bit more (20%-33%?) than coach and get a seat that I can sleep in, whether it is lie flat at an angle or some sort of couchette, both with the toilet and shower down the hall, not in the compartment to keep the price down. I think I would like this even more than increasing the top speed to 100 mph from 79 mph.

 

[Texan Eagle]

I voted "I don't know" simply because the question is too vague. What kind of train are we talking about? Short distance corridor train? One-night overnighter? Cross country LD train taking 2 or 3 nights? My answer would depend on that. For short runs I'd like to see a "economy" class with lower prices than current coach compensated by lesser legroom than the very-generous one provided in existing coaches. For one night overnighters I'd love to see a class between coach and sleeper- a lie-flat seat class or bunk sleeper class for which I'd pay something more than coach.

 

[Ozark Southern]

Well, since this is fantasyland anyway, I'd like to see more amenities at a cheaper price on all trains. I want a flag stop at the tracks four blocks from my house, even though there is no station there, nor ever will be, and I want to go to New York City in my own private car, with gourmet meals prepared by Alton Brown himself, for $1.

 

[Anderson]

I'll second the sentiment that I think I'm getting above: As a rule, I'd like a wider range of accommodation choices rather than just "coach or sleeper" on an LD train, or just "coach or BC" on a corridor train. On some routes, this is going to mean adding something between coach and the sleeper (i.e. the lie-flat seats mentioned above); on others, this might mean either a new "upper end" service that is a bit nicer than present BC or a lower-end version of coach for shorter-haul passengers on LD trains. It's not so much a matter of one versus the other...it would just be nice to have a bit more of a range to pick from in a lot of cases.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Since this is a fantasy vote, why can't I vote for "Lower price, and more amenities"?

 

[guest]

Lie-flat seats for overnight trains, and a cheaper economy class for short runs.

Being able to lie flat on an overnight trip from, say, WAS to CHI would make be a HUGE improvement over that standard coach seats, even if it meant sleeping in a "public" area.

I don't need the privacy of roomette/bedroom, but I do need to stretch my weary bones.

 

[afigg]

I don't see the purpose of this poll when it is so vaguely defined. The Pennsylvanian is a day train. If another daily train to PGH is added, it would have the basic amenities of a day train: coach cars (either Amfleet Is or IIs) and a food café car. It won't get a money losing full service diner. If a Three Rivers LD train to CHI is restored running through Pittsburgh, then it will have sleeper cars and a diner car.

On the other hand, are you asking for new amenities to be added to longer range day trains such as a single level sightseer car??

However, the price of the train ticket is not really set by the amenities on the train, but by yield management, what the supporting state wants the tickets to sell for, and the basic cost of operating the train. If there is demand for the train, the ticket prices will be higher. Yes, if there are nice amenities on the train, that may increase the number of passengers, but it is a secondary effect on demand and prices.

 

[Anderson]

I don't see the purpose of this poll when it is so vaguely defined. The Pennsylvanian is a day train. If another daily train to PGH is added, it would have the basic amenities of a day train: coach cars (either Amfleet Is or IIs) and a food café car. It won't get a money losing full service diner. If a Three Rivers LD train to CHI is restored running through Pittsburgh, then it will have sleeper cars and a diner car.

On the other hand, are you asking for new amenities to be added to longer range day trains such as a single level sightseer car??

However, the price of the train ticket is not really set by the amenities on the train, but by yield management, what the supporting state wants the tickets to sell for, and the basic cost of operating the train. If there is demand for the train, the ticket prices will be higher. Yes, if there are nice amenities on the train, that may increase the number of passengers, but it is a secondary effect on demand and prices.

Well, there's actually a good question right there: What would adding a regular dome (or some other sort of window-heavy lounge car) do for ridership on some routes such as the Adirondack? It does seem possible that Amtrak might be able to, on some routes, justify adding some sort of upgraded amenities...especially if they allow Amtrak to upsell tickets (such as, for the Adirondack example, a "dome class" seating ticket or restricting dome access to upgraded-class passengers). From what I've seen in the old Official Guides, a few trains had substantial "locked out" amenities like that (i.e. access to more dome cars, etc. on the CA Zephyr).

On lie-flat seats: How much relative space would one of those take up versus a standard 2-2 LD configuration again? I'm wondering just because I'm trying to sort out what the "right" buckets would be for such an option.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

If there was to be a "Pittsburgher", I would think its consist would be made only from existing cars. I mean, if a "Pittsburgher" would require any new type of car (dome, coach w/lay flat seats, etc), such would immediately kill it.

 

[sunchaser]

Since this is fantasy, what kind of amenities are you thinking? Dome cars on all trains that can use them? More Parlor Cars? More routes? Jacuzzis? I would be happy with mattress/bedding upgrades! Sometimes the food could be better and more choices too!

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I've always the thought the return of something like the slumbercoach would be nice. I'd gladly pay less for a bed even if meant I didn't all of the amenities of full sleeper class.

 

[sunchaser]

I've always the thought the return of something like the slumbercoach would be nice. I'd gladly pay less for a bed even if meant I didn't all of the amenities of full sleeper class.

Please refresh my memory, did they offer full sleepers and slumbercoaches on the same train?

I think regardless of what extra amenities would be offered, the price overall would definitely go up!

 

[afigg]

Well, there's actually a good question right there: What would adding a regular dome (or some other sort of window-heavy lounge car) do for ridership on some routes such as the Adirondack? It does seem possible that Amtrak might be able to, on some routes, justify adding some sort of upgraded amenities...especially if they allow Amtrak to upsell tickets (such as, for the Adirondack example, a "dome class" seating ticket or restricting dome access to upgraded-class passengers). From what I've seen in the old Official Guides, a few trains had substantial "locked out" amenities like that (i.e. access to more dome cars, etc. on the CA Zephyr).

There should be possibilities for premium class type service options on the day trains. I have not seen numbers for how much of the Acela revenue is from the first class passengers, but I expect Amtrak is doing pretty well with the Acela first class cars. More leg room, only 3 seats across, meals provided for a healthy additional charge. The critical element is that most Acela trips are 2:45 NYP-WAS or 3:40 NYP-BOS with the Acela attracting a lot of business, media, political, or just plain wealthy customers.

If the Adirondack can get to decent trip times, there might be a market for a premium class car with free meals, 2x1 seating, at seat service, big windows. Lots of well off people in NYC and Montreal. The key would be to have major endpoint destination cities not more than 8-9 hours apart. NYC to Montreal. NYC/Philly to Pittsburgh, maybe. CHI-STL? CHI-DET? The Maple Leaf (after trip time reductions)? A major hindrance, however, is these will be state supported trains and the state DOT bureaucrats may not want to have their state subsidized service subject to cheap pot shots by state legislatures by providing "first class" service. Call it premiere, premium, something else service.

When the order is placed for Amfleet II replacements, Amtrak could consider ordering a small number of cars configured for premium class service for the medium-long range day trains. Base the concept on the Acela First Class cars.

As for slumbercoach cars, doubtful that Amtrak would bring back a different sleeper class.

 

[Exiled in Express]

Can a Superliner fit into PHL? I get the single level blues everywhere but the Talgo.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I've always the thought the return of something like the slumbercoach would be nice. I'd gladly pay less for a bed even if meant I didn't all of the amenities of full sleeper class.

Please refresh my memory, did they offer full sleepers and slumbercoaches on the same train?

I think regardless of what extra amenities would be offered, the price overall would definitely go up!

The Crescent had both sleeper and slumbercoach between New York and Atlanta according to timetables in the early 90s as did the Boston section of Lake Shore Limited.

 

[EMDF9A]

I voted for higher price and more amenities. I would like to see first class lounge cars ala PPC added to all LD trains. I would like to see upgrades in the diners, ie return to china, glassware and more scratch prepared items. I dont know what percentage or dollar amount increase would cover those costs so I dont know how much higher the fares would be, but the ridership numbers are there. Amreica is returning to train travel. I'd gladly pay the price (and no I'm not a 1%er)

David

Seattle

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Since this is fantasy, what kind of amenities are you thinking? Dome cars on all trains that can use them? More Parlor Cars? More routes? Jacuzzis? I would be happy with mattress/bedding upgrades! Sometimes the food could be better and more choices too!

I'm talking about a step up from what qwe have now, so instead of adding new intermediate classes, I'm talking about things like better food, round-end obs cars, drawing rooms, maybe master rooms, dome cars, basically stuff like that.

I voted for higher price and more amenities. I would like to see first class lounge cars ala PPC added to all LD trains. I would like to see upgrades in the diners, ie return to china, glassware and more scratch prepared items. I dont know what percentage or dollar amount increase would cover those costs so I dont know how much higher the fares would be, but the ridership numbers are there. Amreica is returning to train travel. I'd gladly pay the price (and no I'm not a 1%er)

These stuff and some others are what I'm talking about.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Oh, yeah, what I mean about the cheaper train is that they go slower and they go on different routes so that they get more pax, lowering the fare. Like the old Erie Railroad trains from "New York" to Chicago.

Another option is to simply reduce seat size, like using corridor cars on LDs, and commuter cars on corridors.

Edit: more info

 

[sunchaser]

Since this is fantasy, what kind of amenities are you thinking? Dome cars on all trains that can use them? More Parlor Cars? More routes? Jacuzzis? I would be happy with mattress/bedding upgrades! Sometimes the food could be better and more choices too!

I'm talking about a step up from what qwe have now, so instead of adding new intermediate classes, I'm talking about things like better food, round-end obs cars, drawing rooms, maybe master rooms, dome cars, basically stuff like that.

I voted for higher price and more amenities. I would like to see first class lounge cars ala PPC added to all LD trains. I would like to see upgrades in the diners, ie return to china, glassware and more scratch prepared items. I dont know what percentage or dollar amount increase would cover those costs so I dont know how much higher the fares would be, but the ridership numbers are there. Amreica is returning to train travel. I'd gladly pay the price (and no I'm not a 1%er)

These stuff and some others are what I'm talking about.

In that case, the first things to do would be to upgrade linens and mattresses in the sleepers.

They should also return to real china and glassware, it actually 'more green' than using plastic and paper.

The same could be said for the meals-instead of prepackaged foods, return to cooked to order. Better menu, more regional and more selection.

Now for the expensive, therefore unlikely amenities/upgrades to be added:

I would love to see first class lounge cars on the LD Trains-like the PPC, but specific to each train.

Bring back Dome cars!

Addition of some type of 'slumbercoach class' in addition to the 'sleeper class'.

Reconfigure the bedrooms to allow for a larger bottom bed, add a small fridge. Stocked, of course.

The addition of a smoking lounge car, or a car at the end of the train that has a door you could open to a 'platform' or 'porch' to go outside and smoke. I know that's not the right words for it, but if you look at pics of old trains you'll get the idea. They used one for President Obama's train ride to the Inauguration.

Last, but not least, reinstate some of the old routes where there is no service. I can only speak to my area, but the two I would love to see reinstated would be the Pioneer and the Desert Wind. Both are north/south trains, which we don't have here since they are gone.

 

[benjibear]

As far as amenities, I think Amtrak could do a better job in the cafe cars instead of microwave food. I can get better food at the corner conveniance store from the hot dog rollers or pizza cabenet.

As far as routes, I think we could all agree that we would like to see more routes to serve some major destinantions that don't have service (i.e. Las Vegas or the FL extension of the SL) or more frequency (2 trains a day on routes like the Pennsylvanian, Crescent, Capitol Limited, etc).

For service, I really think they need to increase speeds and reliability of all trains.

 

[Ziv]

Anderson, this subject of lie-flat at an angle came up two months ago if memory serves but I can't find the thread. I think we found 60" pitch for most of the LFAA seats on the airlines, which was 10" longer than Amtrak coach seats, but I believe Swiss Air has a 55" LFAA seats on their A330's now. So if Amtrak put in a section of LFAA seats with the 60" pitch they would have around 80% of the seats with the slightly older seats (in the same amount of space) but they would have up to 90% of the seats with the newer Swiss Air type, if the space fit the new seating pattern just right, which it probably wouldn't.

I think this would be a no-brainer, adding choices of services means you can please more people, get more people to travel more frequently, and for longer distances, all while adding revenue per train, IF Amtrak had the money to invest in ideas like this, which they obviously do not.

I have happily slept on hard sleepers in China, on Second Class sleepers in Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam, in Couchettes all over Europe, and in Second Class cabins on the Trans-Siberian. There are intermediate steps between Roomettes and Coach, and they would be great for Amtrak to explore, if they had the money to do so. I have refused to spend the money to upgrade to a roomette on my Amtrak trips so far, and I bet there are a lot of travelers like me that love long distance train travel but need to be able to sleep and shower to make the longer trips and feel that the roomettes are simply too expensive, but an intermediate sleeping option would be perfect.

I don't see the purpose of this poll when it is so vaguely defined. The Pennsylvanian is a day train. If another daily train to PGH is added, it would have the basic amenities of a day train: coach cars (either Amfleet Is or IIs) and a food café car. It won't get a money losing full service diner. If a Three Rivers LD train to CHI is restored running through Pittsburgh, then it will have sleeper cars and a diner car.

On the other hand, are you asking for new amenities to be added to longer range day trains such as a single level sightseer car??

However, the price of the train ticket is not really set by the amenities on the train, but by yield management, what the supporting state wants the tickets to sell for, and the basic cost of operating the train. If there is demand for the train, the ticket prices will be higher. Yes, if there are nice amenities on the train, that may increase the number of passengers, but it is a secondary effect on demand and prices.

Well, there's actually a good question right there: What would adding a regular dome (or some other sort of window-heavy lounge car) do for ridership on some routes such as the Adirondack? It does seem possible that Amtrak might be able to, on some routes, justify adding some sort of upgraded amenities...especially if they allow Amtrak to upsell tickets (such as, for the Adirondack example, a "dome class" seating ticket or restricting dome access to upgraded-class passengers). From what I've seen in the old Official Guides, a few trains had substantial "locked out" amenities like that (i.e. access to more dome cars, etc. on the CA Zephyr).

On lie-flat seats: How much relative space would one of those take up versus a standard 2-2 LD configuration again? I'm wondering just because I'm trying to sort out what the "right" buckets would be for such an option.

 

[Anderson]

I think adding an intermediate class (or returning to the "older" top class and having the current upper-end option becoming the new middle) is probably something to shoot for on most routes. Mind you, I'd be willing to spring for an old parlor car-style seat on the train out of Newport News (or, if I was with a group, I'd probably pay for the drawing room and bring some cards...wouldn't that be a dream come true? And yes, I get that it would probably end up costing a pretty penny...but yes, I would pay)...but I'm also the same guy who generally springs for a roomette to/from New York so he can crash for a few hours and avoid "killing" the day when he takes the 4:35.

Which variation it ends up being would, naturally, depend on the route and the existing services...routes that still have 2-1 BC could probably do with having a 2-2 BC added; routes with only 2-2 BC could probably do with a 2-1 class being added. So in general, accepting that there's not much of a market for my more expensive 1-1 seating options (we can always dream), what I'd like to see on corridors would be:

-A 2-2 "little legroom" option like the current corridor coach.

-A 2-2 "more legroom" option like the current NEC BC

-A 2-1 legroom-heavy option (BC on the Shoreliner/FC on the Acela)

For overnight trains, I'd like to see:

-A 2-2 coach option like what we have now.

-A 2-2 or 2-1 "overnight coach" option with lie-flat seats.

-Slumbercoach-style rooms

-Sleeper accommodations, as we have now.

I don't see couchettes or "hard" sleepers flying in the US...we've just got a bit of a privacy bug here, for good or ill. There's a reason that the Pullman open section died off here.

 

[afigg]

As far as amenities, I think Amtrak could do a better job in the cafe cars instead of microwave food. I can get better food at the corner conveniance store from the hot dog rollers or pizza cabenet.

As far as routes, I think we could all agree that we would like to see more routes to serve some major destinantions that don't have service (i.e. Las Vegas or the FL extension of the SL) or more frequency (2 trains a day on routes like the Pennsylvanian, Crescent, Capitol Limited, etc).

For service, I really think they need to increase speeds and reliability of all trains.

With regards to the food in the cafe cars, the amount of space for storing food and cooking is much less than in a corner convenience store. The microwaved hot dogs are not that great, but where would they put the hot dog rollers in the small cafe counter? Besides, one big lurch at a switch and those hot dogs go flying. According to their reports, Amtrak is trying to improve the food in the cafe cars, but realistically, they have to keep the costs down.

On more frequencies or restoring routes, sure, if someone is willing to pay for it. And willing to provide funds to buy the additional equipment.

Among the goals in the Amtrak Strategic Plan are of course to increase average speeds and reliability. Well, yea, they are not going to push for slowing the trains down and never be on time. The $6 billion or so of HSIPR and TIGER funds that is going to projects on Amtrak corridors and routes will help to cut trip times and boost reliability on those corridors. Just need more money to for more track, signal, and station upgrades.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The idea of premium service on a day train is already being explored by Amtrak. On the SL/TE PIP, remember that the consist for the SAS-NOL train was 1 premium class coach, 1 CCC, and then only like 1 or maybe 2 coaches. They said that the Premium service would have at seat meal service. I think the best thing for a business class or premium class on most trains would be a movie screen much like those found on JetBlue coach and AirCanada's first class, where you have a choice of movies, tv shows, and music that you can use to fit the length of your trip. Back until 7 years ago, the biz class on the PacSurf had movies at every seat. They were removed a while ago though. My grandma, when she would buy the 10-rides and come down every weekend, would upgrade onboard to biz class about 1/3 of the time. She like the movies, but the problem was that they were all timed for an LAX-SAN run, and when she got off at Solana Beach, she would always miss the end.