cpotisch
Engineer
Wow, those really were the days. You had a choice of five trains to Chicago alone, all out of Grand Central. RIP Golden Age of Rail.
As to the 1952 map...YES PLEASE!
Chicago Legacy Club Possible Closure - June 2019 or sooner
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As to the 1952 map...YES PLEASE!
And they managed to have that service without having a lounge for sleeper/first class passengers.
And remember....that was only on one road...
The PRR, The B&O, The Erie, as well as other choices with connections like Lackawanna-Nickle Plate, Lehigh Valley-Wabash, or CN-GTW, as well as C&O and N&W; could all be used to get from New York to Chicago back then....
jis
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Which stands to reason since back then there was no I-87/90, I-80, and maybe some four dozen (or more if one change is thrown in) flights a day between New York and Chicago.
cpotisch
Engineer
Did those run out of Grand Central?And remember....that was only on one road...
The PRR, The B&O, The Erie, as well as other choices with connections like Lackawanna-Nickle Plate, Lehigh Valley-Wabash, or CN-GTW, as well as C&O and N&W; could all be used to get from New York to Chicago back then....
ehbowen
Engineer
Pennsylvania and Lehigh Valley operated out of New York Penn Station (same location as today's NYP, but the original grand building). Erie operated out of an ancient terminal in Jersey City, while B&O operated out of Central of New Jersey's separate terminal (also in Jersey City). Lackawanna had a slightly more modern terminal in Hoboken (still in service as a commuter station, IIRC); Erie relocated to share this terminal in the late 1950s as a precursor to the eventual merger of the two roads.
Edit To Add: The railroads with terminals on the Jersey side of the Hudson all operated ferryboats to transfer passengers to/from Manhattan proper. The Lackawanna terminal also had/has good connections to the New York subway system.
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jis
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Central of Jersey's Jersey City Station (used by B&O) is now a tourist attraction.
Lackawanna's Hoboken Terminal became Erie-Lackawanna's Hoboken Terminal and then New Jersey Transit's Hoboken Terminal. The Lackawanna service (Phoebe Snow) went up what is today the NJT Morristown Line then over the Lackawanna Cutoff in NJ and PA, crossing the Paulins Kill Viaduct in NJ the Delaware Viaduct across the Delaware River and the Tunkhannock Viaduct in Nicholson PA, all landmark concrete arch bridges when they were built a hundred plus years ago. The Erie service went up what is today the NJT Main Line to Suffern and then through the MNRR Port Jervis line and then up the Delaware River through Deposit etc. crossing both the Moodna and the Starucca Viaducts on the way. Very scenic and excruciatingly slow route.
Before moving to Hoboken Terminal Erie operated out of its Pavonia Terminal. The only sign remaining of it is on the support poles with the "E" embossed icon in the PATH (then Hudson and Manhattan Railroad) Pavonia, now Newport, Station.
The Lehigh Valley service out of Penn Station New York used the Hunter Connection just west of Newark Penn Station that is used today by the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line trains, which then use the newer Aldene Connection to transfer over to the ex-CNJ Line to Raritan. The ex-Lehigh Valley and ex-CNJ Line meet up at Bound Brook before separating again. The CNJ line is pretty much gone east of Aldene Connection, though the ROW is mostly intact through Elizabeth. You can see the old CNJ Elizabeth station from the NEC as you pass through the NEC Elizabeth (Broad Street) station onto the famous Elizabeth S-Curve.
Maybe we should start a thread on historical New York - Chicago service and their historical routes.
Lackawanna's Hoboken Terminal became Erie-Lackawanna's Hoboken Terminal and then New Jersey Transit's Hoboken Terminal. The Lackawanna service (Phoebe Snow) went up what is today the NJT Morristown Line then over the Lackawanna Cutoff in NJ and PA, crossing the Paulins Kill Viaduct in NJ the Delaware Viaduct across the Delaware River and the Tunkhannock Viaduct in Nicholson PA, all landmark concrete arch bridges when they were built a hundred plus years ago. The Erie service went up what is today the NJT Main Line to Suffern and then through the MNRR Port Jervis line and then up the Delaware River through Deposit etc. crossing both the Moodna and the Starucca Viaducts on the way. Very scenic and excruciatingly slow route.
Before moving to Hoboken Terminal Erie operated out of its Pavonia Terminal. The only sign remaining of it is on the support poles with the "E" embossed icon in the PATH (then Hudson and Manhattan Railroad) Pavonia, now Newport, Station.
The Lehigh Valley service out of Penn Station New York used the Hunter Connection just west of Newark Penn Station that is used today by the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line trains, which then use the newer Aldene Connection to transfer over to the ex-CNJ Line to Raritan. The ex-Lehigh Valley and ex-CNJ Line meet up at Bound Brook before separating again. The CNJ line is pretty much gone east of Aldene Connection, though the ROW is mostly intact through Elizabeth. You can see the old CNJ Elizabeth station from the NEC as you pass through the NEC Elizabeth (Broad Street) station onto the famous Elizabeth S-Curve.
Maybe we should start a thread on historical New York - Chicago service and their historical routes.
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neroden
Engineer
You don't need a lounge for waiting passengers when there's a departure every hour.
People show up further in advance when there are fewer trains per day, thus necessitating more lounge space.
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And I'm just seeing this now. Sigh.
The Legacy Club would likely have "worked" if it hadn't come alongside the new Metropolitan Lounge. I know that on at least 2-3 occasions I paid the $20 and used it regardless of access rights to the Metropolitan Lounge because of crowding issues. The biggest example of this was when 29 and 49 came in hooked together...I just went straight upstairs to the Legacy Club and, when asked why, pointed out that something like 150 sleeper pax had all showed up at the same time and that I wasn't up for waiting an hour downstairs. But I did it one or two other times as well, and I found the staff to be markedly more polite and the facility nicer than the "old" Met Lounge.
I suspect that the "pay lounge" model would work in a few places depending on the traffic load, etc. Pairing it with a brand new, massively expanded lounge with improved internal F&B options probably wasn't a winning combination, however.
The Legacy Club would likely have "worked" if it hadn't come alongside the new Metropolitan Lounge. I know that on at least 2-3 occasions I paid the $20 and used it regardless of access rights to the Metropolitan Lounge because of crowding issues. The biggest example of this was when 29 and 49 came in hooked together...I just went straight upstairs to the Legacy Club and, when asked why, pointed out that something like 150 sleeper pax had all showed up at the same time and that I wasn't up for waiting an hour downstairs. But I did it one or two other times as well, and I found the staff to be markedly more polite and the facility nicer than the "old" Met Lounge.
I suspect that the "pay lounge" model would work in a few places depending on the traffic load, etc. Pairing it with a brand new, massively expanded lounge with improved internal F&B options probably wasn't a winning combination, however.
PaulM
Engineer
I'd add a another box. If you are going to force passengers to queue to have tickets checked prior to boarding, how about inside, not out on the platform no matter how cold the weather.
Or adding to the digital sign board an announcement as to when queuing starts.
neroden
Engineer
If the budgetary problem for the Legacy Club is the free drinks, get rid of them, and see how many commuters continue to use it. It might actually be a profitable venture just as a Metra commuter lounge.
tim49424
Engineer
I'm not sure what the issue with the Legacy Club was. I utilized it twice and it is nice. I'd rather have the canned soft drinks vs. the fountain any day, you can bring outside food into the Club as you cannot in the new ML, the snacks are more readily available and there all day long and frankly even the early boarding worked better than the ML's early board. The problem was, on those days I was there, I'd arrive a little after 9 and leave for my train back around 6 (I did day trips both times) and I'd see less than a dozen people utilize it during that time. Maybe it was the fact that the club is so poorly promoted. Yes, I'd hear the canned announcements a few times per day while at CUS, but I don't remember hearing much anywhere else. I actually learned about the LC from posts on AU. So I'm not sure things would be much different if it exclusively went to being a Metra lounge.
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NW cannonball
Conductor
I've never cared about whatever amenities Chicago station has, only to get to the connecting train. Without too much hassle from the homeless.
Long ago, like 50 years, there were showers for some classes of pax. Never used that.
Fairly digestible food while waiting -- a plus. But the nearby neighborhoods have better.
Booze - well, that's been a plus for the south shore etc for decades - as for the station --- overpriced booze and prepaid redhat service never paid off even since the days of Parmalee? spelling ?
Long ago, like 50 years, there were showers for some classes of pax. Never used that.
Fairly digestible food while waiting -- a plus. But the nearby neighborhoods have better.
Booze - well, that's been a plus for the south shore etc for decades - as for the station --- overpriced booze and prepaid redhat service never paid off even since the days of Parmalee? spelling ?
cpotisch
Engineer
You know, the ML has showers.
ehbowen
Engineer
I've seen both "Parmalee" and "Parmelee". Haven't seen anything authoritative to confirm between the two, but I believe I saw a scanned flyer from the period which spelled it 'Parmelee.' So that's what I generally use.
[For the larger audience, the Parmelee (Parmalee?) Transfer Company used to have the exclusive franchise in Chicago to transport connecting passengers between the city's six (seven if you count the North Shore Line) intercity railroad passenger terminals. There was no out-of-pocket cost to passengers; if you purchased a ticket from, say, Syracuse, NY on the Water Level Route to Portland, OR via Union Pacific then you would along with your rail tickets be issued a coupon for a transfer from La Salle St. Station (Chicago home of the NYC) to North Western Station (C&NW handled UP trains east of Council Bluffs until 1955) or, beginning in 1955, Union Station after the Milwaukee Road took over.]
Parmelee would eventually evolve into Continental Air Transport, now known as GO Airport Express. Parmelee sold its Railroad Transfer Service operation to Keeshin Charter Service in 1955, and it ran up until about the time of Amtrak....
*
I noticed that in a couple of posts, you mentioned the C&NW operating the UP "City" trains, east of Council Bluffs. While it is true that the C&NW operated as one of several "tennants" of the UP over its Missouri River Bridge between Council Bluffs and Omaha, I believe it was still considered a C&NW train all the way into Omaha. They did not stop at 'The Bluffs" to change crews....
*
I noticed that in a couple of posts, you mentioned the C&NW operating the UP "City" trains, east of Council Bluffs. While it is true that the C&NW operated as one of several "tennants" of the UP over its Missouri River Bridge between Council Bluffs and Omaha, I believe it was still considered a C&NW train all the way into Omaha. They did not stop at 'The Bluffs" to change crews....
I don't think so...
tim49424
Engineer
No. Only the ML does.
MikefromCrete
Engineer
I think what happened with the Legacy Club was that Amtrak thought Metra passengers and Amtrak coach passengers would want to have a lounge like the Metropolitan Club. However, most Metra commuters arrive at the station just minutes before their train leaves. They may grab a drink or a snack before getting on, but they are not going to be sitting around a lounge area, no matter how nice, for an hour or so before their train leaves. Amtrak coach passengers are probably traveling on a budget, so they don't want to spend $20 per passenger to use the lounge. So, the lounge never really attracted enough patrons to be profitable.
I like the Legacy lounge over the Metropolitan. Better food selection and you could have up to three or four full size drinks during their happy hour instead of the wine tasting at the Metropolitan. Ive used it while riding Coach. I ve wanted to use it with a sleeper but I couldnt justify paying the $20
cpotisch
Engineer
Why did they make the Legacy Lounge nicer than the Metropolitan Lounge? The Met Lounge is for their highest paying customers, so I just feel like it would make way more sense for that to be the nicest offering.
bratkinson
Conductor
$20 is $20.
As coach passengers have to pay for their food onboard, why not make a couple bucks during their layover, too? I suspect the only reason they may be/are closing it is that it isn't 'making money'. Too few customers to break even, I guess.
tim49424
Engineer
Agree 100%. For me, riding coach on a day trip to Chicago and back plus the $20 daily fee is cheaper than the Business Class upgrade and then being entitled to the ML. However, when I'm on a LD trip and have a sleeper, there is no way I could justify the extra $20.
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