Chief #3 (passengers instructed to leave SSL after Fullerton)

[Qapla]

I have only ridden coach. When we have neared certain stations the crew has come down the aisle with a trash bag collecting trash from people at their seats. I have also been in some cars that became nearly empty and the crew came through and cleaned up before the car reloaded at the next stop.

I have not found them doing this to be an intrusion on my sitting convenience not did I find it objectionable. In fact, most thanked them for coming by and collecting the trash because it eliminated the need to take it to the trash before gathering the baggage or trying to carry it with you as you headed for the exit.

I have used the lounge/cafe car on both Silver trains. We were asked to leave the lounge car in WDC when they changed the engines since the car loses power during the changeover.

I have never been asked to vacate the car before a terminus ... and I was in the car as we approached NYP - but, then, I returned to my seat anyway to collect my carry-ons anyway.

I can see why they want people to return to their seats before a terminus - it would help cut down on people going "against the flow" of people trying to get off the train as they try to get back to their seats to collect their stuff.

On a recent day trip to Tampa and back, we caught the train in PAK. We were riding in the lounge car on the way back. In fact, we only took our seats when we first boarded to make things easier. Trying to tell the Amtrak personnel that you want to ride in the lounge car as you board does not seem to work too well. We rode far a short while at our seats and then headed for the lounge car. We stayed there until the PAK stop since we did not have any carryon to retrieve.

If they had asked us to return to our seats before reaching our stop, it would not have bothered me. The same would be true if they closed a lounge/cafe car or diner car as we neared a terminus ... it would not bother me.

 

[ehbowen]

Have we already forgotten what happened when the Sunset Limited was first scheduled to arrive LAX at the ungodly hour of 5:35 a.m.? Sleeper passengers were told that, "You can remain in your room until 6:30 a.m." Presumably the sleeping car attendants were being paid for the extra time. How well did that work out? Well, if you look back in this same forum, you'll see plenty of reports of Amtrak employees basically kicking them out of the car as soon as the train arrived, often thirty minutes or more to the good.

Yes, I know that Amtrak ended that "official" policy and now you get your butt off the train as soon as it arrives. But if quite a number of SCAs hadn't already unofficially made that policy, perhaps now arriving passengers (at least in sleeper) might be able to enjoy an extra hour's sleep. Or more.

 

[drdumont]

When I was commuting on the Eagle from DFW to AUS, I usually didn't bother taking a seat in the coach, I just sat in the upstairs Sightseeing Lounge. Never had any issue with getting ticket taken, etc. As the SL was never anywhere near full IIRC, I saw no problem here, nor did any of the other crew, apparently.
Only once was I chased out of the SL as we left Cleburne enroute FTW. There were one or two attendants occasionally on this route who were always treating passengers as annoyances. And you could see them hotfooting it down the platform as soon as the incoming crew arrove, and sometimes before. The operating crew were all Top Drawer, and we occasionally discussed a couple of those attendants. Their cars were generally less well maintained as a rule.
Somewhere I read that airline pilots and I believe Flight Attendants are paid wheels up to wheels down. That hardly seems fair, but if their Union agreed to it and they agreed to work under the Contract, I guess that's the way it goes. Doesn't seem that this arrangement would foster a really dedicated workforce, but the great majority of those folk don't treat the pax as a nuisance.
Final disclaimer - In no way am I disparaging the vast majority of Amtrak employees who help make the trips enjoyable, to whom tip my hat. There's bad apples in every lot, alas.

 

[tricia]

I'd be FINE with closing cafe and dining car half an hour before arrival at the train's terminus, given the stupid policy of not paying staff to tidy the train after it's pulled into the station.

But over the years on LD trains I've found it typical for all food and beverage service to shut down an hour or more ahead of arrival. (Worse, as DA pointed out, the early dining car shutdown is often preceded by a very limited "express" meal.) And I get really peeved when first call for breakfast on the Crescent out of New Orleans is an hour or more after we've left the station at 7AM--given that Amtrak wants us to be at the station by 6:30, there's no food at the station at that hour, and that's awful early to be seeking breakfast before getting to the station.

 

[cirdan]

Wrong! The staff is off the clock once the train stops at the terminal.

And whose fault / decison is that, if not management?

Did somebody point a gun at their heads and force them to decide that?

 

[Rasputin]

In my experience this has been standard operating procedure on most Amtrak long distance trains for years and pre-dates Anderson. I can see closing the downstairs café section but I don't see that it is necessary to close the upstairs of the sightseer lounge car except that it seems to make the crew feel better.

Usually I don't find it to be a problem except once when we were asked to vacate the lounge on the eastbound Sunset (under to old daylight arrival in New Orleans schedule) just as the train was about to cross the Huey Long Bridge, one of the scenic highlights. I was sorry we did not get to stay in the lounge for that. Under the present schedule with arrival in New Orleans after dark it wouldn't matter to me.

 

[neroden]

Yeah, crews have been pulling this BS for years. Interestingly, official Amtrak manuals have often prohibited this BS and say that customers can use the lounge from train start to train stop... but Amtrak has suffered from a lack of management for a long time...

 

[PVD]

The LD train standard is 30 minutes before arrival at final terminal, if possible serve a customer after closing...closing the cafe and closing the car are separate. I totally get the idea of closing sales because inventory and accounting close out need to get done before arrival. Nobody should be expected to work for free. I still don't see why the car should be closed, especially in a SSL car, where you could put a chain across the stairs and close the downstairs. I'm mostly on single levels, I've never seen it myself, but I don't doubt it does.

 

[Charles785]

One solution would be to eliminate labor unions for customer service people on Amtrak trains. The idea is to provide the best possible customer service, not to worry about work rules and contract provisions from a third party. The only two important parties are Amtrak and their paying customers.

I've never gotten the impression that labor unions care about customers anyway. And good customer service people with positive attitudes don't need labor unions.

 

[Trogdor]

One solution would be to eliminate labor unions for customer service people on Amtrak trains. The idea is to provide the best possible customer service, not to worry about work rules and contract provisions from a third party. The only two important parties are Amtrak and their paying customers.

I've never gotten the impression that labor unions care about customers anyway. And good customer service people with positive attitudes don't need labor unions.

Labor unions are about protecting workers rights from management abuses. You can’t just “eliminate labor unions” because (for now, anyway) that would be against the law. And these contract provisions are not “from a third party.” They are the agreement between Amtrak and its employees, which both sides agreed to. The union is a mechanism for lots of employees to be able collectively bargain, and not need to individually bargain/negotiate for their pay and benefits. But the union did not impose work rules on Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

In the case of end route passengers it's up to Amtrak to state that such customers need to be treated within a certain range of expectations. At that point it's up to Amtrak and the union to negotiate how that experience will be managed and measured along with how much it will cost in time and wages. Or at least that's how I believe it's supposed to work. I was disappointed with how the Sunset Limited's arrival into Los Angeles was handled after the schedule change but the Texas Eagle's arrival into Chicago isn't that much better. My end route experience honestly feels like an afterthought more often than not.

 

[MARC Rider]

30 minutes seams reasonable to me. Gives employees time to get things in order, helps clear passageways. Crew members can flat be rude coming down the isle with there gear. I've noticed passengers that are barely mobile throughout the trip are hot footing it to the door to get off the minute the train stops. Cruise ships are the worst, leave your room with all your luggage at 8 am and depending on customs may have to wait 3 hrs to depart

"Cruise ships are the worst?"

Aha, so it's not just Amtrak that has this issue!

 

[MARC Rider]

Labor unions are about protecting workers rights from management abuses. You can’t just “eliminate labor unions” because (for now, anyway) that would be against the law. And these contract provisions are not “from a third party.” They are the agreement between Amtrak and its employees, which both sides agreed to. The union is a mechanism for lots of employees to be able collectively bargain, and not need to individually bargain/negotiate for their pay and benefits. But the union did not impose work rules on Amtrak.

Also, keep in mind that during the 20th Century, when On Board Service was generally considered to be pretty good, all of these jobs were unionized. Unionization isn't the problem, it's the management.

 

[NSC1109]

One solution would be to eliminate labor unions for customer service people on Amtrak trains. The idea is to provide the best possible customer service, not to worry about work rules and contract provisions from a third party. The only two important parties are Amtrak and their paying customers.

I've never gotten the impression that labor unions care about customers anyway. And good customer service people with positive attitudes don't need labor unions.

I work as a customer service agent at a local grocery chain in addition to my duties with Delta. I am also a union member there.

The union exists because management at said chain is very misleading and frankly they aren’t forthcoming with much of anything. The smallest thing that is done incorrectly results in a write-up now. Four of my coworkers have quit because of it with two more recently handing in their two week notices. I also handed in my notice, as management took advantage of my youth and did not pay me my raise. I ended up getting literally a quarter of what I was owed and a fraction of my back pay. The union couldn’t get me more because the company declared my raise to be a “merit raise” instead of a promotion, so they couldn’t touch it. The kicker is, when the union investigated, they found a massive culture of favoritism in my store from the previous manager. They’re now working to rectify all the pay issues, costing the company that much more money.

The union isn’t designed to care for customers. That’s the employees job. The union is designed to protect the employee from managerial abuse and misconduct.

 

[neroden]

The question is, who protects the customers from managerial abuse and misconduct?

Advocacy groups and elected officials, I guess...

 

[Qapla]

Maybe we need a "Customer Union"

 

[ref5035]

Ok , maybe not being as familiar with everybody else but aren’t the trains cleaned once they are taken down to the yard why does the customers have to be push to read directed so the guys on the Train csnclean the train.. what’s the point of it being cleaned again... in the yard ?

 

[ref5035]

Let’s make sure we’re clear I have no problem with them closing food services I understand the need to prepare for the arrival and accountability ,but what does that have to do with people not being able to even sit in a sightseer lounge... and still being told to get back to your seats or go back to your room ?

 

[Qapla]

Perhaps it has more to do with the time they spend on the tracks at the station then the time the employees spend cleaning the car.

Since the tracks are shared and run on a schedule ... and most tracks are not owned by Amtrak, it could be that they were having a problem with people hanging out in the lounge car(s) not getting off the train in a timely manner at a terminus. If the train does not empty it's passengers so it can leave the platform, it could delay other trains using the same tracks/platform.

 

[ref5035]

Was a last stop, fullerton...prior to LA arrival which was 30 minutes early....fyi. This past monday am

 

[Siegmund]

"The LD train standard is 30 minutes before arrival at final terminal":

Somebody tell that to the Empire Builder onboard staff. The dining car closes when the train passes through the Cascade Tunnel, about 6AM, 4 hours before arrival into Seattle. The last breakfast eater is out and the last dirty tablecloth removed before 7. I'm not sure what the crew do for the remaining 3 hours before arrival. Count all the silverware?

 

[PVD]

The 30 minute standard is cafe lounge not diner. The standards indicate hours of service for meals in the dining car, but they also say that variations may exist on different trains for a number of reasons. It is an area where it is not made clear at all. It might have something to do with it being day 2 but I have no idea.

 

[Qapla]

As I understand it, the "lounge/cafe" car is for general use during the trip ... the "diner car" is for meals and is "closed" during non-meal hours.

I have never eaten in the diner so I can't really be sure of this - but it was the understanding I got from the train staff.

When I was on the SM a few years back the diner car was located between coach and the sleepers. I believe they did allow the one in the sleepers to walk through the diner if they wanted to go to the lounge car - but they did not allow them to sit in the diner car "to kill time"

 

[PVD]

That has also changed somewhat on trains where thr diner is now the fulltime sleeper lounge.

 

[Siegmund]

The 30 minute standard is cafe lounge not diner.

Fair enough. (27's lounge-cafe quits serving 2 hours before Portland, but they've never herded me out of the upstairs portion.)