Coast Starlight gets stormed out

[F900ElCapitan]

There is a very fine line that comes into play.  In an emergency, a crew that hasn't reached their designated terminal can receive a 4 hour respite providing there is suitable food and lodging. Suitable lodging typically means providing sleeping quarters. Otherwise, the railroads could tell a freight crew to sleep on the engine on a siding and that would count as rest.  The problem is sleeping quarters typically must be free from interruptions caused by noise under the control of the railroad. Typically, a train in transit wouldn't fit that bill.

Great explanation, thank you for that. Obviously a DS wouldn’t be able to tell a crew to rest in an engine due to there not being a suitable space. I guess I was thinking more about this CS stuck train situation in particular. Let’s suppose a replacement crew was able to be transported in (helicopter, van gets in but they're not sure another one could get in, National Guard, etc.), so instead of bringing the previous crew out, they were assigned rooms (similar to a bunk car), the train isn’t moving so noise shouldn’t be an issue. I would think then the crew would be able to get a rest period in. Just a thought, and all in all this situation probably won’t be replicated for years, if ever. 

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I’m guessing a sleeping car could legally count.  I know on tour busses the drivers can sleep in the bunks while a second driver is on duty and that counts as their legal rest. The  road noise on a tour bus bunk is about the same as a roomette in my opinion.  

But I doubt the railroads really need to decide that since it’s likely not a practical solution in just about any situation I can think of. 

 

[fairviewroad]

Here's a really nice write-up on an Amtrak crew member who rose to the occasion on the stuck Starlight.

When Amtrak train stalled in Oregon snow, crewman emerged as ‘source of comfort’

 

[neroden]

The judicial interpretations seem driven by the lack of passenger service.  Clearly, *passenger* safety should take priority in situations like a train which is two miles from a station with a timed out crew.  Irrelevant for freight, very relevant for passengers.

That said, the scheduled shifts are all well under 12 hours, so this shouldn't be coming up as an issue; the bigher problem is bad dispatching which does not prioritize stopping the train at a station rather than leaving it in the middle of nowhere.  The policy of halting trains after a tresspasser strike needs to be ended too.

 

[BuffaloBoy]

Thoughts.

1.  In this case HOS (hour of service) would not apply due to this being an actual emergency ?  They had to remain on train any way to keep HEP operating.  They would have gotten sleep any way in a sleeper?

2.  Biggest worry might have been if the locos would run out of diesel for HEP.  Engineer and conductor could have switched locos supply HEP with an announcement that power would be off about 5 minutes.

3. This is another lesson about the RRs including Amtrak have not been proactive enough to remove trees close to tracks.

4.  

Funny thing about HOS is that once their time runs out they go on hourly wage until another crew takes over.. Excellent paycheck for the train crew the longer it lasted.  I  made the biggest check I have ever had during a huge blizzard just outside Buffalo heading to Cleveland and we only made it as far as Hamburg/Angola before we bogged down and had no traction to go further. The snow was just too high. We remained on that SD40 until they got to us, happy and warm 7 hours later and Conrail put us up at the Buffalo Hilton. 

 

[BuffaloBoy]

There is more to this story, maybe I will tell it someday!

 

[John Santos]

Now that the passengers were rescued, can we make "Murder on the Orient Express" jokes?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Now that the passengers were rescued, can we make "Murder on the Orient Express" jokes?

The train arrived, minus one passenger....

(Rural Oregon has quality and effective policing like high-crime Midsomer)

 

[Thirdrail7]

The judicial interpretations seem driven by the lack of passenger service.  Clearly, *passenger* safety should take priority in situations like a train which is two miles from a station with a timed out crew.  Irrelevant for freight, very relevant for passengers.

Again, the railroads and their employees are free to violate the HOS law if they feel it is necessary or conditions warrant. However, passenger safety hinges on crew safety. If you have a fatigued crew, your chances for an incident increase. 

Remember, even with crews that had service time left, incidents at  Hoboken, Spuyten Duyvil and Shore happened in less than two minutes. They literally  occurred after seconds of inattention and loss of focus.  A lot can happen in two miles and if you violating a federal law (this is not some recommendation issued by the NTSB...it is a LAW) was part of the root cause, you'd be able to count on prison time.

That is why the order is not taken lightly...and even when it is given, the person accepting the order (they can refuse the order in the interest of safety) must not accept it lightly.

 

[fairviewroad]

Now that the passengers were rescued, can we make "Murder on the Orient Express" jokes?

Actually, what kept running through my mind was the Gilligan's Island theme song.  "A three hour tour, a three hour tour...."

 

[Chatter163]

A telemarketing company that I worked for in the 1980's required us to log into several screens and a telephone keypad, to be able to take calls from multiple clients, all to be completed before our shift started. This literally took 5-10 minutes. Eventually someone filed a Class Action lawsuit for the lost wages.

I had a similar situation in the eighties and early nineties, when I worked security at a large hotel. We were required to be in uniform and attend a briefing 15 minutes prior to our shift, as police officers in our area did. This went on for years, until one security officer complained to the wage and hour division of the labor department. Since we were hourly employees, that practice had to be discontinued as a result of the complaint.