Coast Starlight in 2019?

[tomfuller]

I was trying to plan a long Amtrak trip for next May. My plan was to come into LAX on the Sunset Limited early AM and leave on the northbound Coast Starlight.

I did call USA-Rail and waited 5+ minutes to talk to a human. He assured me that the train would be running in late May.

Is Amtrak trying to keep a big secret about the future of the Coast Starlight?

My latest Amtrak trip was May 31-June 1 boarding the CS in Sacramento 6/1. The train got us as far as K-Falls where everyone boarded buses. The checked luggage got put onto a big U-Haul truck to Eugene for those heade there or farther north. We ended up on the bus that was going up US 97 since our car was parked at Chemult.

A few days later they stopped running the CS north of Sacramento.

Does anyone have any insight as to why the Amtrak website is telling me that seats are "Not Available"? I checked several dates in May to make sure.

 

[CCC1007]

Be sure to check dates that the sunset limited is scheduled to operate. I was just able to get a quote from Tucson to Seattle using 14 and 1.

 

[bmjhagen9426]

Looks like there are inconsistencies between the website and the agents. Maybe another PTC argument? (I'm saying that because the coast line (SJC-SBA includes exempt track). We currently have the Chief on the B-Line for cuts, and the CS could be right behind it. If my speculations are unfounded, then it is because the Sunset does not run every day (Whenever I travel to Arizona, I have to check the calendar to get to LAX on the right date (I live in Oregon, so I need to take the Sunset to go to Arizona. If I want the Chief, it's the SJ+BFD-LAX bus in the morning at Northern CA, or a night at LAX. When I was checking prices for my trip from MRC to ATL, I had the date errors as well.

 

[chakk]

I believe that if you are attempting to book straight thru from the SL to the CS, then you must use the same date for the CS as the arrival date for the SL. If you would like to stay over a night or two in LA, then book separate one-way tickets on the SL and the CS.

 

[cpotisch]

I believe that if you are attempting to book straight thru from the SL to the CS, then you must use the same date for the CS as the arrival date for the SL. If you would like to stay over a night or two in LA, then book separate one-way tickets on the SL and the CS.

I would recommend multi-city instead of doing two separate reservations. By booking a connecting ticket or a multi-city, you'll often get a significant discount, and a guaranteed connection.

 

[jebr]

Tickets appear to be available on the Coast Starlight in May, although all the coach tickets are in the "flexible" class (which means they're the most expensive.) Maybe they want to hedge their bets in case it gets discontinued, maybe they're just trying a new revenue management strategy, or maybe it's something else entirely.

 

[jebr]

By booking a connecting ticket or a multi-city, you'll often get a significant discount, and a guaranteed connection.

Amtrak no longer guarantees connections with the multi-city tool. From Amtrak's Multi-City Booking Tool page:

"Making multi-city reservations on Amtrak.com is different than making one-way/round-trip reservations with the travel options that can be booked, allowing you to build a more complex trip with up to four different travel segments. Connections are not guaranteed. and you will be responsible for ensuring that you book trains that give you enough time to make connections. Missed connections are the passenger's responsibility."

 

[cpotisch]

Amtrak no longer guarantees connections with the multi-city tool. From Amtrak's Multi-City Booking Tool page:

"Making multi-city reservations on Amtrak.com is different than making one-way/round-trip reservations with the travel options that can be booked, allowing you to build a more complex trip with up to four different travel segments. Connections are not guaranteed. and you will be responsible for ensuring that you book trains that give you enough time to make connections. Missed connections are the passenger's responsibility."

I see. It still might be cheaper, though.

 

[adam_aussie]

An interesting discussion. Please excuse my ignorance while I briefly divert from the original poster's questions:

What is this about the CS possibly not running in the future? Is this service potentially coming to an end in the near future?

 

[Triley]

An interesting discussion. Please excuse my ignorance while I briefly divert from the original poster's questions:

What is this about the CS possibly not running in the future? Is this service potentially coming to an end in the near future?

Just the rumor mill at work. This is the first time I've heard any speculation of the Starlight being cancelled.

To the OP: Your train had a bus bridge, and later only ran to Sacramento, because of track work by Union Pacific. It had nothing to do with Amtrak wanting to cut back the train.

 

[Blackwolf]

Pretty darn sure that the Coast Starlight isn't going away. Period.

And Amtrak isn't canning any trains. The talk of such is just personal opinions and echo chambers at work using nothing more but gut intuition and random bits of non-liniar information.

If LD's were being discontinued, the Coast Starlight would be one of the very last routes cut in the system. It's arguably the most advertised and most famous of all routes, with the biggest international following, and is heavily backed politically by the most well known and powerful states in all of the US.

The. Train. Ain't. Going. Away.

 

[cpotisch]

And Amtrak isn't canning any trains. The talk of such is just personal opinions and echo chambers at work using nothing more but gut intuition and random bits of non-liniar information.

Maybe Amtrak aren't technically getting rid of any trains, but chopping up a route and replacing large portions with busses is the next best thing. Just because something isn't an actual train off doesn't mean that that's not the intention.

 

[TiBike]

If LD's were being discontinued, the Coast Starlight would be one of the very last routes cut in the system. It's arguably the most advertised and most famous of all routes, with the biggest international following, and is heavily backed politically by the most well known and powerful states in all of the US.

The Starlight certainly operates in the most powerful state "in all of the US" (I give my friends in Oregon and Washington due credit too, even if they aren't the fifth largest economy in the world

). But that doesn't mean it is "heavily backed politically". In my line of work (telecoms) I spend a fair amount of time at economic development and infrastructure conferences, which usually include our politicos, and at city council meetings and legislative hearings. The three biggest infrastructure issues in California are housing, transportation and water. The order of priority depends on where in California you are, but those three are always at the top of the list.

At these events, I usually focus on transportation, because it's most closely linked to my field (e.g. if you want a rough picture of long haul fiber optic routes in California, check out the 1926 California Railroad Commission map). In all the years I've been doing this, I can't recall a single time the Starlight or any other long distance trains were mentioned. There's constant talk about building high speed rail and expanding light rail, commuter rail and the corridors (including sometimes a Coast Daylight), but based on what I've seen and heard, the Starlight is less relevant to California transportation policy than the Disneyland monorail.

Think about it. The Starlight was chopped up with a bus bridge and then truncated at Sacramento for weeks this summer. Did anyone make a speech about it at the California capitol? Did any city councils dispatch delegations to Washington? Was a high level task force assembled to expedite repairs? No. But all those things happen whenever there's even a hint of a major transportation disruption, however temporary. Sometimes even minor disruptions. A corridor train that hits a homeless person and shuts down for three hours will get far more attention than the Starlight did during the entire span of its recent troubles. I didn't hear or read any mention about it in consumer media, either.

I think you'll be surprised at the mainstream political reaction if Amtrak proposed redirecting resources from the Starlight as we know it today, to service that better matches California transportation patterns and needs, and that's safe, on time and clean. I'm not optimistic it will happen, but if it does, expect plenty of speeches, resolutions and delegations in support.

 

[Ryan]

And Amtrak isn't canning any trains. The talk of such is just personal opinions and echo chambers at work using nothing more but gut intuition and random bits of non-liniar information.

Maybe Amtrak aren't technically getting rid of any trains, but chopping up a route and replacing large portions with busses is the next best thing. Just because something isn't an actual train off doesn't mean that that's not the intention.

I wasn't aware that a decision had been reached and announced concerning the future of the Chief.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Think about it. The Starlight was chopped up with a bus bridge and then truncated at Sacramento for weeks this summer. Did anyone make a speech about it at the California capitol? Did any city councils dispatch delegations to Washington? Was a high level task force assembled to expedite repairs? No. But all those things happen whenever there's even a hint of a major transportation disruption, however temporary. Sometimes even minor disruptions. A corridor train that hits a homeless person and shuts down for three hours will get far more attention than the Starlight did during the entire span of its recent troubles. I didn't hear or read any mention about it in consumer media, either.

There is a good reason this truncating the Coast Starlight at Sacramento did not merit much concern. The tunnel collapse in Oregon prevented through rail traffic. Freight trains were detoured all the way to Salt Lake City. This disruption was more of a disaster event for which there was not a reasonable detour route for the Coast Starlight. While the Coast Starlight did not run in Washington and Oregon there were multiple Seattle to Eugene coach trains every day. Incidentally, the Coast Starlight was reduced to a all coach train while running on Los Angeles to Sacramento. The only proposed bus bridge is for the SWC in Colorado and New Mexico and that bus bridge may never happen.

 

[bratkinson]

By booking a connecting ticket or a multi-city, you'll often get a significant discount, and a guaranteed connection.

Amtrak no longer guarantees connections with the multi-city tool. From Amtrak's Multi-City Booking Tool page:

"Making multi-city reservations on Amtrak.com is different than making one-way/round-trip reservations with the travel options that can be booked, allowing you to build a more complex trip with up to four different travel segments. Connections are not guaranteed. and you will be responsible for ensuring that you book trains that give you enough time to make connections. Missed connections are the passenger's responsibility."

Thank you for the heads up on the multi-city tool dropping guaranteed connections. I'll admit there were times I needed to book a tight connection from a long distance train and the multi-city wouldn't allow it. So I simply booked it as separate reservations.

These days, since the reduction of the senior fare discount from 15% to 10% (both from the 'value' fare rate), when traveling the NEC, I have no choice but to book it as adult and get the 'saver' rate which beats the discounted senior fare every time. BUT...Now, when I am booking a connection to/from a long distance train from a station on the NEC, I have to make that as a separate reservation to get the senior discount when booking roomettes, which unconditionally uses the value fare bucket for the 'rail' charge of the ticket. I have 3 of those trips booked in the next 7 weeks or so...NEC on one ticket, LD on another.

 

[jebr]

These days, since the reduction of the senior fare discount from 15% to 10% (both from the 'value' fare rate), when traveling the NEC, I have no choice but to book it as adult and get the 'saver' rate which beats the discounted senior fare every time. BUT...Now, when I am booking a connection to/from a long distance train from a station on the NEC, I have to make that as a separate reservation to get the senior discount when booking roomettes, which unconditionally uses the value fare bucket for the 'rail' charge of the ticket. I have 3 of those trips booked in the next 7 weeks or so...NEC on one ticket, LD on another.

Does Amtrak no longer significantly discount the NER portion of the ticket when connecting to/from a long distance train? I know in the past the extra cost to take a NER when connecting to/from a long distance train was rather minimal when they were booked together.

 

[bmjhagen9426]

These days, since the reduction of the senior fare discount from 15% to 10% (both from the 'value' fare rate), when traveling the NEC, I have no choice but to book it as adult and get the 'saver' rate which beats the discounted senior fare every time. BUT...Now, when I am booking a connection to/from a long distance train from a station on the NEC, I have to make that as a separate reservation to get the senior discount when booking roomettes, which unconditionally uses the value fare bucket for the 'rail' charge of the ticket. I have 3 of those trips booked in the next 7 weeks or so...NEC on one ticket, LD on another.

Does Amtrak no longer significantly discount the NER portion of the ticket when connecting to/from a long distance train? I know in the past the extra cost to take a NER when connecting to/from a long distance train was rather minimal when they were booked together.

Not sure...but I've heard that Amtrak is discounting weekend Acela travel between NYC (Penn) and DC, up to 25 per cent discounted with Saver Fares, as advertised during my phone hold. Not entirely related, but decided to bring it up since someone already brought up saver fares. And definitely not a rumour mill.

 

[cpotisch]

BUT...Now, when I am booking a connection to/from a long distance train from a station on the NEC, I have to make that as a separate reservation to get the senior discount when booking roomettes, which unconditionally uses the value fare bucket for the 'rail' charge of the ticket.

Your not taking into account the often significant discount of booking a connecting ticket, not to mention the lack of a guaranteed connection.

 

[cpotisch]

These days, since the reduction of the senior fare discount from 15% to 10% (both from the 'value' fare rate), when traveling the NEC, I have no choice but to book it as adult and get the 'saver' rate which beats the discounted senior fare every time. BUT...Now, when I am booking a connection to/from a long distance train from a station on the NEC, I have to make that as a separate reservation to get the senior discount when booking roomettes, which unconditionally uses the value fare bucket for the 'rail' charge of the ticket. I have 3 of those trips booked in the next 7 weeks or so...NEC on one ticket, LD on another.

Does Amtrak no longer significantly discount the NER portion of the ticket when connecting to/from a long distance train? I know in the past the extra cost to take a NER when connecting to/from a long distance train was rather minimal when they were booked together.

They do. They 100% do. And not just on the NER, plenty of connecting tickets from an LD train to an LD train are discounted as well.

 

[cpotisch]

And Amtrak isn't canning any trains. The talk of such is just personal opinions and echo chambers at work using nothing more but gut intuition and random bits of non-liniar information.

Maybe Amtrak aren't technically getting rid of any trains, but chopping up a route and replacing large portions with busses is the next best thing. Just because something isn't an actual train off doesn't mean that that's not the intention.

I wasn't aware that a decision had been reached and announced concerning the future of the Chief.

There hasn't. But you can't deny that "The Choppening" is something being seriously considered.

 

[MikefromCrete]

And Amtrak isn't canning any trains. The talk of such is just personal opinions and echo chambers at work using nothing more but gut intuition and random bits of non-liniar information.

Maybe Amtrak aren't technically getting rid of any trains, but chopping up a route and replacing large portions with busses is the next best thing. Just because something isn't an actual train off doesn't mean that that's not the intention.

I wasn't aware that a decision had been reached and announced concerning the future of the Chief.

There hasn't. But you can't deny that "The Choppening" is something being seriously considered.

The only "choppening" I see is the SWC and that's just a ploy to get someone to pay for PTC and to maintain the Chief-only tracks.

 

[TiBike]

Right. There are plenty of other trains along much of the Starlight route, which offer better service where they run. But where they don't, nobody took sufficient notice or cared enough to make an issue of it. Done correctly – with maximising inter-city service as the goal – redesigning or repurposing the Starlight will generate more political support than opposition in California.

There is a good reason this truncating the Coast Starlight at Sacramento did not merit much concern. The tunnel collapse in Oregon prevented through rail traffic. Freight trains were detoured all the way to Salt Lake City. This disruption was more of a disaster event for which there was not a reasonable detour route for the Coast Starlight. While the Coast Starlight did not run in Washington and Oregon there were multiple Seattle to Eugene coach trains every day. Incidentally, the Coast Starlight was reduced to a all coach train while running on Los Angeles to Sacramento. The only proposed bus bridge is for the SWC in Colorado and New Mexico and that bus bridge may never happen.

 

[cpotisch]

The only "choppening" I see is the SWC and that's just a ploy to get someone to pay for PTC and to maintain the Chief-only tracks.

I was referring to the SWC, and I'm not so sure that this is just a ploy to have PTC payed for. It might be, but IMO it's never a good idea to assume that a potentially disastrous decision is just a ploy, especially in this climate.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I may be cynical about this, but I think a lot of the current upheaval at Amtrak is designed to see how serious various governmental agencies are about supporting Amtrak.

I think the whole dining car "packaged meal" substitution is to get congress to drop the "Mica-management" requirement that Amtrak's food and beverage service not lose money. Keep up the noise, people. Let your representatives and senators know they need to get out of day-to-day meddling with Amtrak's operations.

As far as the SWC is concerned, I really think Amtrak's new management wants to get out from any requirement that the railroad spend millions to maintain 400 miles of track and PTC for two trains a day. Of course, it doesn't help that Railrunner has completely botched its PTC requirements.

Whether any of this is successful is yet to be determined. But I do think that passenger rail supporters have been reading too much into these moves. Of course, it doesn't hurt to get supporters riled up.