Coast Starlight SUSPENDED entire route (1-24-08)

[sechs]

Oh, come on. Just import a bunch of Chinese laborers, give them shovels, wheelbarrows, and black powder, and the line would be open in a matter of days. Ask the Big Four!

Racist comments aside, do you really thinking blowing-up mud is going to get somewhere?

Not racist. That's the way it was done, pal. No pile drivers, grout injectors, armies of mechanical earth movers. Maybe you need to read a bit about how the line was built.

Obviously, you don't even realise what you've said.

What's the saying? Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt?

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Oh, come on. Just import a bunch of Chinese laborers, give them shovels, wheelbarrows, and black powder, and the line would be open in a matter of days. Ask the Big Four!

Racist comments aside, do you really thinking blowing-up mud is going to get somewhere?

Not racist. That's the way it was done, pal. No pile drivers, grout injectors, armies of mechanical earth movers. Maybe you need to read a bit about how the line was built.

Obviously, you don't even realise what you've said.

What's the saying? Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt?

I've never said I'm not a fool. I may well be. But thanks for removing all doubt about yourself.

 

[daniel3197]

Sadly this is all about a very cynical way to save money for the Amtrak Corporation at the expense of the passengers and employees.

Amtrak apparently has a far too bloated management structure.

I think this post from another forum explains pretty well what is going on.

Somehow I do not think that Amtrak (mis) management would try this stunt on the Northeast Corridor.

In this posting Deely is one of those greedy managers.

I think it is now time for the NON NEC National Amtrak system to pull out of Amtrak and find an operator that actually cares about service and not greed.

Yes if Amtrak followed past history they would be operating stub trains at least from Sacramento south to LA and Socal.

They did this back in early January 2004.

(January 3, 2004 )

---- Daniel

======================================================

Date: January 25, 2008 21:03

Re: RAILPAC Speaks out about Coast Starlight Closure

Author: AMW Engr

This is a knee jerk reaction by Deely and Company because they hate their employees so much.

It is painfully obvious that they are not interested keeping the trains running.

They are looking to save money. PERIOD! Well, how about getting rid of layer after layer of management?

Where are all the on board service managers? Surely they are not sitting home without pay.

To make matters worse, Amtrak has decided to punish its employees who regularly work the starlight by not allowing them displacement rights or if they do elect to displace a junior employee, the Carrier has refused to pay them to qualify.... this is in direct contrast to what all the agreements state.

The current regime in the Pacific Division will stop at nothing. The only thing they are concerned with is how they can stick it to their employees.

The heck with running trains... Well they can save a whole bundle if they parked each and everyone of them. Then the only thing they would need funding for is management salary. 1.33 billion should do.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Amtrak (belatedly) had an announcement on their site about the closure. Now it's gone - it's not even in the archive, or on the CS route page. What's up with that? What about people who were planning a trip next week, & MIGHT check the site & get that kind of info?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The current Amtrak management ultimately reports to the President of the United States. If the next President cares more about Amtrak, things may get better.

As for deaths of workers, I'm pretty sure the Big Dig in Boston had a few construction worker deaths, and it certainly had the death of a motorist as a result of poor construction. I'm not entirely convinced that managers of large construction projects are more concerned about safety than they used to be.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Bah. If the managers were as greedy as they should be, they'd be spending all their time and effort keeping this thing running. Amtrak doesn't operate for profit. They'd like to, but so far they haven't made dime one. So what the managers of Amtrak have as a job is to justify the existence of said job and the company they do it for. The way to justify Amtrak is to keep building ridership and make its existence as essential to the people as possible. The government would have a difficult time killing the NEC runs. If all their trains were so ridden, there would be no possibility of killing it because of the number of constituents who would be pissed off, even if they lost $500 a passenger.

Amtraks priorities is:

1) Build ridership

2) Cut costs

2) Improve customer service

In approximately that order.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Cutting costs has the potential to hurt ridership, unless it's done very carefully and in a very restrained fashion. On the other hand, they've probably tried to cut costs enough times in the past that I'd be surprised if there was much room to cut costs further without hurting ridership; they've probably already cut all the costs that are truly unnecessary costs.

And isn't improving customer service part of building ridership?

Beyond that, more/better rolling stock and improved track infrastructure is probably what will build ridership. That costs money.

That, and perhaps getting the frieght railroads to prioritize Amtrak better, which may not end up costing taxpayer money. On the other hand, it might decrease frieght capacity slightly, which might ultimately lead to the public paying a bit more for shipping and/or breathing slightly less clean air if it forces more stuff to go by truck.

 

[PRR 60]

Update from the Union Pacific:

Updated Friday, January 25, 2008 - 2:00 p.m.
Crews continue to clear the debris from mudslides that took out Union Pacific main line track south of Eugene, Oregon last Saturday. The mudslide took out approximately 3,000 feet of mainline track, covering it in 20 feet of mud, snow and downed trees.

Over the past several days, engineering crews have built a road to reach the impacted area and work continues around the clock to remove mud and debris so that track repairs can be made. Restoration is expected to continue for at least another 10-14 days.

 

[AlanB]

Somehow I do not think that Amtrak (mis) management would try this stunt on the Northeast Corridor.

We've gone round and round on this forum about the management at Amtrak and people's perception of how well they do or don't do their jobs, so I'm not going to comment on that again at this time beyond stating that most of us have absolutely no idea one way or the other about what they really do or don't do and whether or not their pay is justified, or whether management is bloated. Although I will state that David Gunn did dismiss serveral hundred managers during his tenure, so it can't be that bloated anymore.

Now all that said, the above statement is totally false. Amtrak intends to shut down the NEC sometime this spring to replace the bridge at New London. So this isn't directed at the employee's in the western division, and Amtrak is making the tough call on the NEC. I would also point out that the cancellation of service wasn't just Amtrak's idea, UP played a part in this decision. We actually don't know if Amtrak tried to keep the train running to KLA, such that they could bus for the last portion and were shot down by UP.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Cutting costs has the potential to hurt ridership, unless it's done very carefully and in a very restrained fashion. On the other hand, they've probably tried to cut costs enough times in the past that I'd be surprised if there was much room to cut costs further without hurting ridership; they've probably already cut all the costs that are truly unnecessary costs.
And isn't improving customer service part of building ridership?

Beyond that, more/better rolling stock and improved track infrastructure is probably what will build ridership. That costs money.

That, and perhaps getting the frieght railroads to prioritize Amtrak better, which may not end up costing taxpayer money. On the other hand, it might decrease frieght capacity slightly, which might ultimately lead to the public paying a bit more for shipping and/or breathing slightly less clean air if it forces more stuff to go by truck.

That all depends on what kind of train you are on and what customer service is to you. On the Regional, operating the snack bar, answering the occasional passenger question, and trying to keep the train on time are enough to satisfy most people. Oh, and keeping the bathroom clean.

On an overnight trip, when I am paying for a sleeper, what will satisfy me is a whole different order of magnitude. I want a polite, friendly, and diligent sleeping car attendant who will turn down my bed at the appropriate time, and fix it up again the next morning, and wake me at a given time if I so request it done. And perhaps perform the odd service here or there in line with their duties. And I have had a few who have gone above that expectation, and I am more than satisfied, such that I tip more than my usual (overly-generous according to my dad) amount. I want a nice, tasty meal served to me properly in a clean, well presented environment. I want to be able to sit in the lounge with a nice drink and watch the scenes go by. I want everything to be acceptably clean. And I want the train to be nice. All of these things are not relevant on the short-distance Regionals. On the other hand, I don't care if the train is somewhat late. To a degree, if I am a first class passenger, I enjoy the extra time onboard.

So implementing SDS does not help customer service. Failing to repair or replace a disintegrating, rickety, and rattling 10-6 that smells distinctly like fecal matter on the inside, and kinda looks like it too does not bode well for my satisfaction, either. Serving a pizza that tastes kinda like urine is no help. It wouldn't stop me from riding the train. But it lowers my satisfaction. I have two choices for going long distances: I can drive, or I can take Amtrak. I am happier about it when I am satisfied.

Certainly satisfaction is conducive to increased ridership, but it isn't tantamount to it. The fact that gas costs people 3 times what it did before Katrina is a good starting point for what drives people to ride the rails.

The problem is that to an extent, goals 2 and 3 are contradictory. To replace or rebuild the particular 10-6 I am referring to that I rode in aboard the Broadway Limited god knows how long ago costs money. So does offering good dining service.

But anyway, I ramble too much.

 

[tp49]

Here's something else to consider as well. Considering the rain we've been getting here in Northern California I would not be surprised if as some point in the next day or so that the line the Starlight travels from SAC to EMY floods somewhere around Suisun/Fairfield. They had this problem a couple of years ago. It's rained pretty much nonstop for the last week at least and it's supposed to get worse over the next couple of days.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak (belatedly) had an announcement on their site about the closure. Now it's gone - it's not even in the archive, or on the CS route page. What's up with that? What about people who were planning a trip next week, & MIGHT check the site & get that kind of info?

While you're correct the notice is no longer blazed across the home page, or in the news archives; if one tries to book a trip on the CS, in addition to the system reporting that the trains are sold out, the link to the notice does appear.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I know almost nobody would take it, but you'd think that they'd offer the option of travelling via Chicago in this instance. Yes, I know it takes four days, but still.

 

[Kramerica]

I know almost nobody would take it, but you'd think that they'd offer the option of travelling via Chicago in this instance. Yes, I know it takes four days, but still.

I think anybody who would want to take your detour would be enough of a rail buff to be able to book it themselves.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You've got a point there.

 

[Bill]

I had a complete change of plans,instead of flying from Portland to LA I was bound and determined to ride the rails...no flying!! to make up for the loss of the CS. So 1 hour,midnight,before the Cardinal left Cincinnati OH I finaly had hard tickets in my hand for a new last minute plan...Cardinal to Chicago ,Texas Eagle to San Antonio,somewhat rough ride but my sleeper car attendant( Cortney) more than made up for the rough ride. After a bit of time in SA picked up the Sunset to LA for a couple of days and then the SW Chief to Albuquerque for three days and then off to Chicago on the SW Chief aging with the final leg back home the Cardinal to Cincy.

All and all I did not really mind changing my plans that I made in August only to be changed at the last minute but I would not have found out about the cancellation of the Coast Starlite if it weren't for this site.Amtrak and my travel agent never contacted me...that is the most disturbing part..if I were average Joe I would have been stuck somewhere on the left coast...maybe next year the Cardinal, Empire,Starlite,Sunset,Texas Eagle and Cardinal.

 

[Rafi]

I had a complete change of plans,instead of flying from Portland to LA I was bound and determined to ride the rails...no flying!! to make up for the loss of the CS. So 1 hour,midnight,before the Cardinal left Cincinnati OH I finaly had hard tickets in my hand for a new last minute plan...Cardinal to Chicago ,Texas Eagle to San Antonio,somewhat rough ride but my sleeper car attendant( Cortney) more than made up for the rough ride. After a bit of time in SA picked up the Sunset to LA for a couple of days and then the SW Chief to Albuquerque for three days and then off to Chicago on the SW Chief aging with the final leg back home the Cardinal to Cincy.All and all I did not really mind changing my plans that I made in August only to be changed at the last minute but I would not have found out about the cancellation of the Coast Starlite if it weren't for this site.Amtrak and my travel agent never contacted me...that is the most disturbing part..if I were average Joe I would have been stuck somewhere on the left coast...maybe next year the Cardinal, Empire,Starlite,Sunset,Texas Eagle and Cardinal.

Next year consider Cardinal (eastbound), Crescent, Sunset, Starlight, Empire, and Cardinal instead. Taking the Crescent to New Orleans requires an overnight, but you'd have an entirely new route in the Crescent, a same-day connection from the Cardinal in Charlottesville (great town to day visit on that layover), and the best scenery with the Cardinal in West Virginia. You'd also benefit from an eastbound Empire Builder which sees much more of Glacier National Park than the westbound. You could do the Klamath Falls-Pasco bus to make a same day connection from the Coast Starlight, but I'd overnight in Seattle since it's a town worth visiting in its own right.

Rafi

 

[AlanB]

I had a complete change of plans,instead of flying from Portland to LA I was bound and determined to ride the rails...no flying!! to make up for the loss of the CS. So 1 hour,midnight,before the Cardinal left Cincinnati OH I finaly had hard tickets in my hand for a new last minute plan...Cardinal to Chicago ,Texas Eagle to San Antonio,somewhat rough ride but my sleeper car attendant( Cortney) more than made up for the rough ride. After a bit of time in SA picked up the Sunset to LA for a couple of days and then the SW Chief to Albuquerque for three days and then off to Chicago on the SW Chief aging with the final leg back home the Cardinal to Cincy.All and all I did not really mind changing my plans that I made in August only to be changed at the last minute but I would not have found out about the cancellation of the Coast Starlite if it weren't for this site.Amtrak and my travel agent never contacted me...that is the most disturbing part..if I were average Joe I would have been stuck somewhere on the left coast...maybe next year the Cardinal, Empire,Starlite,Sunset,Texas Eagle and Cardinal.

Well I'm glad that it all worked out for you Bill. And I'm happy that we came though for you, even as I'm disapointed that you didn't hear from Amtrak. I'd expect less from your travel agent, but Amtrak was supposed to be calling everyone. I have to wonder how you slipped through the cracks, unless maybe your travel agent didn't provide your phone number. Or maybe Amtrak assumed that the agent would call you.

Either way, still unaceptable.

 

[Bill]

Allan b,I could contact them now and all I would get is we are sorry sir,water under the bridge now,I have more important things to dwell on like my next ride Rafi,ya got me looking at the map and I could rack up a few new rail miles if I took the Cardinal toCharolttesville VA,then the Crescent to New Orleans with the City of New Orleans to Chicago and Cardinal....a possibility,I have till next winter to figure out what I wanna do.