Columbus-Denver loophole

[Guest]

Thanks OP! Just booked this for August 20'th !

So how many zones did they charge you with?

Just 1 , 20k points for a bedroom all the way. Somebody must have cancelled one recently as bedrooms on the Empire Builder for all August seem sold out.

 

[PRR 60]

Is it any wonder that Amtrak is considered a badly run business? The trip from CBS to DEN for two in a bedroom would run over $2800 at top bucket. If each leg were sold separately, the cost, and revenue to Amtrak, would be even more. Yet Amtrak, through AGR, offers that same trip for 20,000 points. AGR pays Amtrak about $150 for those 20,000 points. So, assuming those last rooms could have been sold to revenue passengers (in the summer, a very good assumption), Amtrak takes a loss of over $2600 for that deal.

Most frequent traveller programs limit award inventory to prevent large revenue losses from award travel. They don't simply give away their highest yielding products without some control on the cost. Amtrak, however, has virtually no control on award travel. One can book the last bedroom on the train six months in advance, pay for the trip with base-level points, and block sale of that room to a revenue passenger willing to pay real, hard cash. That's great for us, the AGR customers, but it is an incredibly bad way to conduct business. It's the way a company would conduct business if they simply had no cares about the bottom line and no risk of failure. As is they know that, no matter how badly the business is run, they have a rich uncle to bail them out. Oh, now it does make sense.

Next time Amtrak claims they run a tight, cost-conscious business, and deserve more general tax support, think about them giving away $2800 worth of travel for $150.

 

[Ispolkom]

But how often is this sort of trip booked with AGR?

Regardless of how it seems from the postings to this forum, I doubt that there are lots of AGR members who have a) the points, b) the time, and c) the inclination to make such a trip. The best I've been able to get Mrs. Ispolkom to go for is to drive from Savannah to Atlanta to catch our train to Minot (SAV-MOT is 30k points, ATL-MOT is 20k points).

Given that most rewards are made in the NEC, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost more to enforce any regulation tighter than "if amtrak.com shows it, you can book it," especially given the limits of many people's geographical knowledge.

Now why ARROW shows itineraries like this is another matter.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

But how often is this sort of trip booked with AGR?
Regardless of how it seems from the postings to this forum, I doubt that there are lots of AGR members who have a) the points, b) the time, and c) the inclination to make such a trip. The best I've been able to get Mrs. Ispolkom to go for is to drive from Savannah to Atlanta to catch our train to Minot (SAV-MOT is 30k points, ATL-MOT is 20k points).

Given that most rewards are made in the NEC, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost more to enforce any regulation tighter than "if amtrak.com shows it, you can book it," especially given the limits of many people's geographical knowledge.

Now why ARROW shows itineraries like this is another matter.

The VAST majority of trips are booked on the NEC... less than 1% are roomettes/bedrooms across the entire country IIRC. Most AGR members don't think of riding around the country all knobly-wise as being a vacation.

 

[AAARGH!]

But how often is this sort of trip booked with AGR?
Regardless of how it seems from the postings to this forum, I doubt that there are lots of AGR members who have a) the points, b) the time, and c) the inclination to make such a trip. The best I've been able to get Mrs. Ispolkom to go for is to drive from Savannah to Atlanta to catch our train to Minot (SAV-MOT is 30k points, ATL-MOT is 20k points).

Given that most rewards are made in the NEC, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost more to enforce any regulation tighter than "if amtrak.com shows it, you can book it," especially given the limits of many people's geographical knowledge.

Now why ARROW shows itineraries like this is another matter.

The VAST majority of trips are booked on the NEC... less than 1% are roomettes/bedrooms across the entire country IIRC. Most AGR members don't think of riding around the country all knobly-wise as being a vacation.

I concur. The number of people who would do such a thing is so low as to be almost meaningless in the scheme of things. If lots of people did this, then it might affect the bottom line.

OMG, I agreed with ALC!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

But how often is this sort of trip booked with AGR?
Regardless of how it seems from the postings to this forum, I doubt that there are lots of AGR members who have a) the points, b) the time, and c) the inclination to make such a trip. The best I've been able to get Mrs. Ispolkom to go for is to drive from Savannah to Atlanta to catch our train to Minot (SAV-MOT is 30k points, ATL-MOT is 20k points).

Given that most rewards are made in the NEC, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost more to enforce any regulation tighter than "if amtrak.com shows it, you can book it," especially given the limits of many people's geographical knowledge.

Now why ARROW shows itineraries like this is another matter.

The VAST majority of trips are booked on the NEC... less than 1% are roomettes/bedrooms across the entire country IIRC. Most AGR members don't think of riding around the country all knobly-wise as being a vacation.

I concur. The number of people who would do such a thing is so low as to be almost meaningless in the scheme of things. If lots of people did this, then it might affect the bottom line.

OMG, I agreed with ALC!

What am I, negatively charged ions?! people agree with me all the time!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Considering the typical Amtrak rider (not any of us by any means) simply wants to go from point A to point B and cannot tell a Superliner Coach from a Horizon Dinette. I cannot see them wanting to be on a train any longer than need be. They would shake their heads with disbelief at a loophole routing and run to the nearest Hound station or airport.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Considering the typical Amtrak rider (not any of us by any means) simply wants to go from point A to point B and cannot tell a Superliner Coach from a Horizon Dinette. I cannot see them wanting to be on a train any longer than need be. They would shake their heads with disbelief at a loophole routing and run to the nearest Hound station or airport.

Or jump in the SUV and roar off to sit in traffic jams which can take more time than a LD trip!I would like to point out that a

member does tend to skew the stats, goes by the traveler! :lol: (and hes from the NEC!!!)

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Is it any wonder that Amtrak is considered a badly run business? The trip from CBS to DEN for two in a bedroom would run over $2800 at top bucket. If each leg were sold separately, the cost, and revenue to Amtrak, would be even more. Yet Amtrak, through AGR, offers that same trip for 20,000 points. AGR pays Amtrak about $150 for those 20,000 points. So, assuming those last rooms could have been sold to revenue passengers (in the summer, a very good assumption), Amtrak takes a loss of over $2600 for that deal.
Most frequent traveller programs limit award inventory to prevent large revenue losses from award travel. They don't simply give away their highest yielding products without some control on the cost. Amtrak, however, has virtually no control on award travel. One can book the last bedroom on the train six months in advance, pay for the trip with base-level points, and block sale of that room to a revenue passenger willing to pay real, hard cash. That's great for us, the AGR customers, but it is an incredibly bad way to conduct business. It's the way a company would conduct business if they simply had no cares about the bottom line and no risk of failure. As is they know that, no matter how badly the business is run, they have a rich uncle to bail them out. Oh, now it does make sense.

Next time Amtrak claims they run a tight, cost-conscious business, and deserve more general tax support, think about them giving away $2800 worth of travel for $150.

Thanks for blabbing about that, PRR. They musta been listening because the loophole OMA-Columbus is closed. Tried booking it this morning, dangnabit. Blech.

Those of you who would like to take advantage of this, it is presently still possible to do LNK-Columbus. Of course, you occupy your roomette at 12:15 in the freaking morning, but that can not be helped. Besides, if you're me you'd be in the SSL until midnight anyway. However, apparently Amtrak is watching us, so if you have the points and want to do this, do it freakin' NOW!

 

[Ispolkom]

Thanks for blabbing about that, PRR. They musta been listening because the loophole OMA-Columbus is closed. Tried booking it this morning, dangnabit. Blech.
Those of you who would like to take advantage of this, it is presently still possible to do LNK-Columbus. Of course, you occupy your roomette at 12:15 in the freaking morning, but that can not be helped. Besides, if you're me you'd be in the SSL until midnight anyway. However, apparently Amtrak is watching us, so if you have the points and want to do this, do it freakin' NOW!

What do you mean "closed"? Do you mean:

1) An AGR clerk told you that you couldn't book it?

2) The routing no longer appears at amtrak.com?

If it's #1, I'd attribute that to an unhelpful clerk. I've had to call 3 times to get a routing I wanted, at the price I preferred. This is a legal routing, and the only question should be how many points it costs.

#2 is not true.

 

[Upstate]

Thanks for blabbing about that, PRR. They musta been listening because the loophole OMA-Columbus is closed. Tried booking it this morning, dangnabit. Blech.
Those of you who would like to take advantage of this, it is presently still possible to do LNK-Columbus. Of course, you occupy your roomette at 12:15 in the freaking morning, but that can not be helped. Besides, if you're me you'd be in the SSL until midnight anyway. However, apparently Amtrak is watching us, so if you have the points and want to do this, do it freakin' NOW!

I can still pull up OMA-CBA on amtrak.com. Were you just rejected by an AGR agent or what?

 

[Cascadia]

Green Maned Lion, it would be understandable if the subject line of this thread caused some confusion, just want to make sure you know the loophole being discussed was from Columbus, Wisconsin, not Columbus, Ohio.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Thanks for blabbing about that, PRR. They musta been listening because the loophole OMA-Columbus is closed. Tried booking it this morning, dangnabit. Blech.
Those of you who would like to take advantage of this, it is presently still possible to do LNK-Columbus. Of course, you occupy your roomette at 12:15 in the freaking morning, but that can not be helped. Besides, if you're me you'd be in the SSL until midnight anyway. However, apparently Amtrak is watching us, so if you have the points and want to do this, do it freakin' NOW!

I can still pull up OMA-CBA on amtrak.com. Were you just rejected by an AGR agent or what?

I was rejected thrice. They all told me the same thing: that it does not appear to them as a valid routing. At that point, I gave up and got them to give me LNK-CBS. I know it wasn't Columbus, Ohio. Does Amtrak even serve Columbus, OH? I'm 90% sure no train visits it. If I wasn't in a hurry, I'd pick up my Timetable to see if its a thruway.

 

[dart330]

I was rejected thrice. They all told me the same thing: that it does not appear to them as a valid routing. At that point, I gave up and got them to give me LNK-CBS.

That is too bad they wouldn't book it for you. I thought anything we can see on amtrak.com can be booked by AGR?

I was just making plans to book OMA-CBS for a trip in June, but am a few points shy of a bedroom. If they won't let me book it when I call in, I will just settle for starting in Denver and ending with a coach ticket from CBS to Milwaukee.

 

[Guest]

That is too bad they wouldn't book it for you. I thought anything we can see on amtrak.com can be booked by AGR?
I was just making plans to book OMA-CBS for a trip in June, but am a few points shy of a bedroom. If they won't let me book it when I call in, I will just settle for starting in Denver and ending with a coach ticket from CBS to Milwaukee.

I had no problem booking this loophole from CBS to DEN. I just told the agent those exact codes and in two minutes the trip was booked... However, I just learned that I am on the detour Zephyr train through wyoming. Had I known, I may not have booked the trip... But I guess it is an opportunity to see wyoming, which most people never have!

 

[rrdude]

I'm new to this "loophole thing" but am loving the idea. Living in Balt, if I wanted to go to Chicago, in a bedroom sleeper, it normally be TWO ZONES, right? Cost 30K in points. But If I routed myself to Port Huron, MI, and just HAD to take #29 to get to the Blue Water................. They would only charge me 20K in points?

 

[Ispolkom]

I'm new to this "loophole thing" but am loving the idea. Living in Balt, if I wanted to go to Chicago, in a bedroom sleeper, it normally be TWO ZONES, right? Cost 30K in points. But If I routed myself to Port Huron, MI, and just HAD to take #29 to get to the Blue Water................. They would only charge me 20K in points?

It looks bookable, but you might have some splainin' to do to AGR if you didn't use your Blue Water ticket.

I've never carefully read the AGR T & C, but it wouldn't surprise me if you got an extra 10k charge for that maneuver.

Me, I restrict myself to dodgy itineraries that I'm actually taking. I don't book MSP-WAS-ATL and get off in Washington, for instance, to save 10k points. On the other hand, I'll drive to Atlanta so that I can book ATL-WAS-MOT (20k points) rather than SAV-NYP-MOT (30k points).

YMMV, of course.

 

[Upstate]

I'm new to this "loophole thing" but am loving the idea. Living in Balt, if I wanted to go to Chicago, in a bedroom sleeper, it normally be TWO ZONES, right? Cost 30K in points. But If I routed myself to Port Huron, MI, and just HAD to take #29 to get to the Blue Water................. They would only charge me 20K in points?

It looks bookable, but you might have some splainin' to do to AGR if you didn't use your Blue Water ticket.

I've never carefully read the AGR T & C, but it wouldn't surprise me if you got an extra 10k charge for that maneuver.

Me, I restrict myself to dodgy itineraries that I'm actually taking. I don't book MSP-WAS-ATL and get off in Washington, for instance, to save 10k points. On the other hand, I'll drive to Atlanta so that I can book ATL-WAS-MOT (20k points) rather than SAV-NYP-MOT (30k points).

YMMV, of course.

All you have to ride is one stop on that final leg so the ticket gets lifted and then AGR never knows the difference. Then take the Metro or whatever the Chicago equivalent is back into town.

Or just tell them that you rode it and their system is messed up. Revenue tickets fail to post very often for some folks, why shouldn't reward tickets follow suit.

 

[Ispolkom]

All you have to ride is one stop on that final leg so the ticket gets lifted and then AGR never knows the difference. Then take the Metro or whatever the Chicago equivalent is back into town.
Or just tell them that you rode it and their system is messed up. Revenue tickets fail to post very often for some folks, why shouldn't reward tickets follow suit.

The only reason I didn't suggest the one-stop trick is that the first stop on the Blue Water is Niles, Michigan, and since it's two states away that seemed iffy. Your second option is pretty much bullet proof, but I'd never suggest it. I'd certainly not try it very often.

 

[rrdude]

Yes I had considered both points, but' it's also nice to know that I can use that LOOP to get close to my hometown, Ann Arbor, MI, even though it's a "two-zoner". (take the BlueWater to either Durrand or Flint, wait,................. I'll take Durrand ANY day over Flint........)

 

[p&sr]

The only reason I didn't suggest the one-stop trick is that the first stop on the Blue Water is Niles, Michigan, and since it's two states away that seemed iffy.

Remember, Niles MI "serves South Bend, IND"... sort of.

From Niles it is possible to get a Taxi to the South Bend Airport, where you can then catch the South Shore Line back into Chicago. It's a fine trip if you have time for it. But you might need to overnight in a Motel near the Airport, as I did when I took that route last Summer.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I was rejected thrice. They all told me the same thing: that it does not appear to them as a valid routing. At that point, I gave up and got them to give me LNK-CBS.

That is too bad they wouldn't book it for you. I thought anything we can see on amtrak.com can be booked by AGR?

I was just making plans to book OMA-CBS for a trip in June, but am a few points shy of a bedroom. If they won't let me book it when I call in, I will just settle for starting in Denver and ending with a coach ticket from CBS to Milwaukee.

Actually, I'd book the ticket from LNK. My trip as current starts in NYP and ends in NYP: with coach segments NYP-WAS, CHI-LNK, and CBS-NYP, with a sleeper segment WAS-CHI.

 

[dart330]

Actually, I'd book the ticket from LNK. My trip as current starts in NYP and ends in NYP: with coach segments NYP-WAS, CHI-LNK, and CBS-NYP, with a sleeper segment WAS-CHI.

Well I am coming from Las Vegas, NV, and was just looking at where Southwest flies to, Omaha & Denver. Guess we could buy the coach ticket from Omaha to Lincoln, but I doubt my girlfriend would appriciate waiting in coach until that late at night. Might be able to talk her into it. We will plan to get off in Milwaukee to fly back home.

 

[Ispolkom]

The only reason I didn't suggest the one-stop trick is that the first stop on the Blue Water is Niles, Michigan, and since it's two states away that seemed iffy.

Remember, Niles MI "serves South Bend, IND"... sort of.

From Niles it is possible to get a Taxi to the South Bend Airport, where you can then catch the South Shore Line back into Chicago. It's a fine trip if you have time for it. But you might need to overnight in a Motel near the Airport, as I did when I took that route last Summer.

Of course you're right, I completely forgot about the South Shore Line. Even though I lived in Chicago for 4 years, my geography gets hazy out past the ends of the El.

 

[Ispolkom]

Actually, I'd book the ticket from LNK. My trip as current starts in NYP and ends in NYP: with coach segments NYP-WAS, CHI-LNK, and CBS-NYP, with a sleeper segment WAS-CHI.

Well I am coming from Las Vegas, NV, and was just looking at where Southwest flies to, Omaha & Denver. Guess we could buy the coach ticket from Omaha to Lincoln, but I doubt my girlfriend would appriciate waiting in coach until that late at night. Might be able to talk her into it. We will plan to get off in Milwaukee to fly back home.

You could try Omaha-St. Paul. Southwest now flies to MSP. Of course, then you'd miss the trip down the Mississippi between St. Paul and Lacrosse, which I particularly enjoy.