Columbus, OH to Chicago rail corridor proposed

[D.P. Roberts]

How much of this proposed route (especially choosing Columbus as the eastern terminus) is due to:

1) Columbus being a growing city (vs. Cleveland & Cincinnati)

2) Existing tracks/ host to Ft. Wayne

3) No Amtrak passenger service to Columbus

4) A larger market of commuters between these destinations

I can see #1 being true, and I don't know enough about freight rail to comment on #2. But as for #3... Cleveland does have 2 trains to Chicago, but they're both in the middle of the night. Cincinnati only has the Cardinal, only 3 days a week, and it's in the middle of the night. Cleveland serves 50,000 Amtrak riders per year (about 140 per day), Cincinnati only 15,000 per year - or only 41 per day. So, I really don't see why "existing passenger service" is going to have much relevance on a high-speed line through Ohio.

Secondly, although I have not been able to figure out how many flights exist between each city pair each day, a brief look at travel sites showed twice as many flights from Cincinnati to Chicago (two dozen a day) as from Columbus (a dozen a day).

So, it seems to me that if they want to run multiple trains per day, the current rail offerings shouldn't be a factor, and they should consider the current air traffic between the city pairs instead.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

6 R/Ts (12 trains) a day Chicago-Columbus seems reasonable. It's right in line with what had been proposed and studied in the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative for other routes.

I think it would be reasonable in a perfect world. When I originally read this proposal I thought it was a desperate attempt to keep the pot of 3-C simmering.

I agree with what others have said. As long as Gov. Kasich remains in office there will be no additional passenger rail service in Ohio. Turning down the 3-C project was one of the issues that won him the election against the incumbent Democrat Strickland. He is up for re-election against Cleveland-area Democrat Ed Fitzgerald. IMHO barring any major scandal he will secure another term in office. Fitzgerald is a relatively unknown figure who will probably use this momentum to put up a bid for Senate against Rob Portman, but that's purely speculative on my part.

Long story short the proposal is less sound than the 3-C plan, but may be revived if the Democrats can make bids for greater power in Ohio.

A side point Kasich is not entirely anti-transit. He's decidedly pro-oil and gas and thus has supported natural gas bussing projects hand-in-hand with the development of hydraulic fracturing. Additionally he has (fiendishly) suggested that he'd take federal monies ear-marked for passenger rail projects and give the money to NS and CSX to "upgrade their infrastructure". That the previous Democratic governor, Ted Strickland, promised similar kick-backs if the 3-C project had gone through is a nonissue. The point is that the development of a passenger rail project is a culmination of a perfect political storm; support from a significant political figure who needs a cause, a bribe sufficient enough to bribe the host RRs and locals for their support, and popular support for a project. At some point 3-C had all three of these, at this point CHI-Columbus has none. Perhaps this will change, but it is highly unlikely during Kasich's tenure.

 

[Eric S]

Yep, no doubt the political situation makes it very unlikely. In a world where HrSR is being added/constructed throughout the Midwest (and not just in the relatively rail friendly states), this proposal would fit right in.

 

[railbuck]

How much of this proposed route (especially choosing Columbus as the eastern terminus) is due to:

1) Columbus being a growing city (vs. Cleveland & Cincinnati)

2) Existing tracks/ host to Ft. Wayne

3) No Amtrak passenger service to Columbus

4) A larger market of commuters between these destinations

I can see #1 being true, and I don't know enough about freight rail to comment on #2. But as for #3... Cleveland does have 2 trains to Chicago, but they're both in the middle of the night. Cincinnati only has the Cardinal, only 3 days a week, and it's in the middle of the night. Cleveland serves 50,000 Amtrak riders per year (about 140 per day), Cincinnati only 15,000 per year - or only 41 per day. So, I really don't see why "existing passenger service" is going to have much relevance on a high-speed line through Ohio.

Secondly, although I have not been able to figure out how many flights exist between each city pair each day, a brief look at travel sites showed twice as many flights from Cincinnati to Chicago (two dozen a day) as from Columbus (a dozen a day).

So, it seems to me that if they want to run multiple trains per day, the current rail offerings shouldn't be a factor, and they should consider the current air traffic between the city pairs instead.

Don't underestimate the involvement of Ft. Wayne. There's a great deal of local interest in rail service to Chicago with greater convenience and frequency than the CL/LSL can provide via WTI. CHI-FWA by itself is not realistic; a larger market on the eastern end of the route is needed, and with no service currently to Columbus, it's the obvious choice as opposed to more or less duplicating existing service to TOL/CLE.

In terms of air traffic, here are the nonstop flights and one way fares for each city pair for the random date of Wed. 3/26. Keep in mind that ORD is a hub for two airlines (AA and UA), CVG is a small hub/focus city for DL, and CLE is a small hub/focus city for UA.

ORD-CVG: 8 UA, 7 AA, 6 DL, $404

ORD-CLE: 15 UA, 6 AA, $215

ORD-CMH: 7 UA, 9 AA, $93

ORD-FWA: 3 UA, 3 AA, $128

FWA-CMH: Yeah, right.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Twelve trains a day (six each way)???????

Does anyone really want to go to Columbus (or anywhere in between) THAT much (or in such significant numbers?) . . .

Illinois has two state-supported to trains Chicago to Carbondale, which with the City of New Orleans makes three trains each way. If Amtrak had more equipment, they'd probably run more. Likewise Chicago to Quincy. Two state-supported trains, overlapping the California Zephyr and the Southwest Chief as far as Galesburg, so four trains each way on that segment.

The country is underserved by Amtrak, and there's a vast suppressed demand. In this century, every train that has been added to the system runs full. Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus looks as strong as Chicago-Champaign-Carbondale to me. Making it Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus/Toledo-Cleveland makes it look as strong as Chicago-St Louis.

I love the proposed improvements, and love better taking the project to Toledo and Cleveland. Speeding up all trains Cleveland-Toledo-Fort Wayne-Chicago by cutting, say, two hours out of the trip time, would transform the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited, allowing much better departure and arrival times in NYC and Chicago.

Corridor trains would also remove almost all of the cost of those stations from the long distance budget. That is, Cleveland-Chicago is currently served by two trains each way, the LSL and the Capitol. So they pay 100% of the costs of all the stations along the way. But add six corridor trains daily, and the LD trains will only need to pay 25% of the station costs. They are close to breaking even already, and just a little help would give these LD trains an operating surplus.

Yeah, I know the politics is poisonous, but this too shall pass.

 

[jphjaxfl]

How much of this proposed route (especially choosing Columbus as the eastern terminus) is due to:

1) Columbus being a growing city (vs. Cleveland & Cincinnati)

2) Existing tracks/ host to Ft. Wayne

3) No Amtrak passenger service to Columbus

4) A larger market of commuters between these destinations

I can see #1 being true, and I don't know enough about freight rail to comment on #2. But as for #3... Cleveland does have 2 trains to Chicago, but they're both in the middle of the night. Cincinnati only has the Cardinal, only 3 days a week, and it's in the middle of the night. Cleveland serves 50,000 Amtrak riders per year (about 140 per day), Cincinnati only 15,000 per year - or only 41 per day. So, I really don't see why "existing passenger service" is going to have much relevance on a high-speed line through Ohio.

Secondly, although I have not been able to figure out how many flights exist between each city pair each day, a brief look at travel sites showed twice as many flights from Cincinnati to Chicago (two dozen a day) as from Columbus (a dozen a day).

So, it seems to me that if they want to run multiple trains per day, the current rail offerings shouldn't be a factor, and they should consider the current air traffic between the city pairs instead.

Don't underestimate the involvement of Ft. Wayne. There's a great deal of local interest in rail service to Chicago with greater convenience and frequency than the CL/LSL can provide via WTI. CHI-FWA by itself is not realistic; a larger market on the eastern end of the route is needed, and with no service currently to Columbus, it's the obvious choice as opposed to more or less duplicating existing service to TOL/CLE.

In terms of air traffic, here are the nonstop flights and one way fares for each city pair for the random date of Wed. 3/26. Keep in mind that ORD is a hub for two airlines (AA and UA), CVG is a small hub/focus city for DL, and CLE is a small hub/focus city for UA.

ORD-CVG: 8 UA, 7 AA, 6 DL, $404

ORD-CLE: 15 UA, 6 AA, $215

ORD-CMH: 7 UA, 9 AA, $93

ORD-FWA: 3 UA, 3 AA, $128

FWA-CMH: Yeah, right.

I remember riding Amtrak's Broadway Limited when it would stop in Fort Wayne in the early morning. It would board a full coach or more of passengers in Fort Wayne going to Chicago. The same happened in the afternoon. The schedule of the Broadway became less reliable and was tweeked and eventually the line was downgraded, but there was once a market from Fort Wayne to Chicago.

 

[Eric S]

How much of this proposed route (especially choosing Columbus as the eastern terminus) is due to:

1) Columbus being a growing city (vs. Cleveland & Cincinnati)

2) Existing tracks/ host to Ft. Wayne

3) No Amtrak passenger service to Columbus

4) A larger market of commuters between these destinations

I can see #1 being true, and I don't know enough about freight rail to comment on #2. But as for #3... Cleveland does have 2 trains to Chicago, but they're both in the middle of the night. Cincinnati only has the Cardinal, only 3 days a week, and it's in the middle of the night. Cleveland serves 50,000 Amtrak riders per year (about 140 per day), Cincinnati only 15,000 per year - or only 41 per day. So, I really don't see why "existing passenger service" is going to have much relevance on a high-speed line through Ohio.

Secondly, although I have not been able to figure out how many flights exist between each city pair each day, a brief look at travel sites showed twice as many flights from Cincinnati to Chicago (two dozen a day) as from Columbus (a dozen a day).

So, it seems to me that if they want to run multiple trains per day, the current rail offerings shouldn't be a factor, and they should consider the current air traffic between the city pairs instead.

Don't underestimate the involvement of Ft. Wayne. There's a great deal of local interest in rail service to Chicago with greater convenience and frequency than the CL/LSL can provide via WTI. CHI-FWA by itself is not realistic; a larger market on the eastern end of the route is needed, and with no service currently to Columbus, it's the obvious choice as opposed to more or less duplicating existing service to TOL/CLE.

In terms of air traffic, here are the nonstop flights and one way fares for each city pair for the random date of Wed. 3/26. Keep in mind that ORD is a hub for two airlines (AA and UA), CVG is a small hub/focus city for DL, and CLE is a small hub/focus city for UA.

ORD-CVG: 8 UA, 7 AA, 6 DL, $404

ORD-CLE: 15 UA, 6 AA, $215

ORD-CMH: 7 UA, 9 AA, $93

ORD-FWA: 3 UA, 3 AA, $128

FWA-CMH: Yeah, right.

Could also add MDW flights as well. Nonstops to CLE and CMH, not sure about CVG.

 

[neroden]

It's very unfortunate that the statehouses in both Indiana and Ohio have been dominated by anti-passenger-rail extremists. This has been true for a *long* time in Indiana and it has been discussed elsewhere; the best you can say is that it clearly reflects the view of the majority in Indiana, and that Northwest Indiana would probably like to secede.

In Ohio, it's actually surprising that Kasich, who is quite crooked, is hanging on as well as he is. Suppression of votes in in the major cities has definitely been part of his success; I dug into this in some detail.

In terms of political demographics, some populations, 2012 estimates

Cincinnati Metro: 2,128,603 (but much of it is in KY and IN)

Cleveland Metro: 2,063,535

Columbus Metro: 1,944,002

Dayton Metro: 800,972

Akron Metro: 702,262

Toledo Metro: 608,711

Youngstown Metro: 558,206

Canton Metro: 403,455

Total: 9,209,746

Population of Ohio: 11,540,000

One can expect slightly more than half of any of these metro area populations to support rail service. Unfortunately, one can expect none at all of the rural and smaller city populations to support rail service. The numbers are therefore on a knife-edge; small demographic changes can tip them one way or another. As can suppression of legitimate voting.

Kasich is not particularly popular for an incumbent.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/02/race_tightens_between_gov_john.html

Unfortunately, Kasich's response has been to try to prevent people in groups which are less likely to vote for Kasich from voting. Such as people whose addresses change frequently.

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140228/NEWS01/302280036/Kasich-signs-provisional-voting-bill-into-law?nclick_check=1

I should say that it's not just Amtrak or intercity service which is hurt by the anti-rail extremism of the current Ohio legislature and governor. The attempts made at the state level to sabotage local rail expansions in Columbus (successfully so far) and Cincinnati (unsuccessfully) were quite aggressive and did rather unusual things. The state government is not rail-neutral, they are actively hostile. So are the Indiana legislature and governor.

 

[andersone]

Metro Jackson has a population of 6,336

I would be happy to go from Columbus to Toledo,,,,, would beat the hell out of the twelve hour SPO to CHI as my current best option

 

[CHamilton]

In Ohio, Gov. Kasich Rises From Forsaken to Favorite

Early in his term, Ohio Republican Gov. John Kasich was considered the most unpopular governor in the country. Between that and a sputtering state economy, a second term looked like a dicey proposition.

But Kasich's standing has recovered over the past two years and the latest polling indicates his Democratic opponent Ed FitzGerald remains largely unknown.

It's early in the election season — Ohio's primary isn't until May — but FitzGerald is struggling to find the issue with which he can convince people to turn Kasich out.

 

[choochoodood]

It's very unfortunate that the statehouses in both Indiana and Ohio have been dominated by anti-passenger-rail extremists. This has been true for a *long* time in Indiana and it has been discussed elsewhere; the best you can say is that it clearly reflects the view of the majority in Indiana, and that Northwest Indiana would probably like to secede.

In Ohio, it's actually surprising that Kasich, who is quite crooked, is hanging on as well as he is. Suppression of votes in in the major cities has definitely been part of his success; I dug into this in some detail.

In terms of political demographics, some populations, 2012 estimates

Cincinnati Metro: 2,128,603 (but much of it is in KY and IN)

Cleveland Metro: 2,063,535

Columbus Metro: 1,944,002

Dayton Metro: 800,972

Akron Metro: 702,262

Toledo Metro: 608,711

Youngstown Metro: 558,206

Canton Metro: 403,455

Total: 9,209,746

Population of Ohio: 11,540,000

One can expect slightly more than half of any of these metro area populations to support rail service. Unfortunately, one can expect none at all of the rural and smaller city populations to support rail service. The numbers are therefore on a knife-edge; small demographic changes can tip them one way or another. As can suppression of legitimate voting.

Kasich is not particularly popular for an incumbent.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/02/race_tightens_between_gov_john.html

Unfortunately, Kasich's response has been to try to prevent people in groups which are less likely to vote for Kasich from voting. Such as people whose addresses change frequently.

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140228/NEWS01/302280036/Kasich-signs-provisional-voting-bill-into-law?nclick_check=1

I should say that it's not just Amtrak or intercity service which is hurt by the anti-rail extremism of the current Ohio legislature and governor. The attempts made at the state level to sabotage local rail expansions in Columbus (successfully so far) and Cincinnati (unsuccessfully) were quite aggressive and did rather unusual things. The state government is not rail-neutral, they are actively hostile. So are the Indiana legislature and governor.

I am pro-rail and definitely disappointed with what Kasich has done (or not done) with regard to the 3C Corridor, but please don't interject biased political opinion in this forum, i.e.: "In Ohio, it's actually surprising that Kasich, who is quite crooked, is hanging on as well as he is."

 

[neroden]

I am pro-rail and definitely disappointed with what Kasich has done (or not done) with regard to the 3C Corridor, but please don't interject biased political opinion in this forum, i.e.: "In Ohio, it's actually surprising that Kasich, who is quite crooked, is hanging on as well as he is."

Don't call it opinion. It's fact. I didn't provide the documentation for it, true, because it seemed off topic. I suppose "quite" is an opinion, but Kasich is crooked.
http://thebellwetherdaily.blogspot.com/2010/03/ohio-gop-gov-candidate-john-kasich-as.html

http://www.plunderbund.com/2012/03/09/county-gop-chairman-asks-fbi-to-investigate-kasich-and-allies/

In some states they don't give a damn about that, and in Illinois they probably wouldn't blink twice if I called any candidate crooked.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I am pro-rail and definitely disappointed with what Kasich has done (or not done) with regard to the 3C Corridor, but please don't interject biased political opinion in this forum, i.e.: "In Ohio, it's actually surprising that Kasich, who is quite crooked, is hanging on as well as he is."

Don't call it opinion. It's fact. I didn't provide the documentation for it, true, because it seemed off topic. I suppose "quite" is an opinion, but Kasich is crooked.
http://thebellwetherdaily.blogspot.com/2010/03/ohio-gop-gov-candidate-john-kasich-as.html

http://www.plunderbund.com/2012/03/09/county-gop-chairman-asks-fbi-to-investigate-kasich-and-allies/

In some states they don't give a damn about that, and in Illinois they probably wouldn't blink twice if I called any candidate crooked.

Hey, we've got the best politicians that money can buy. Of course your statement is pretty bold for somebody from New York.

 

[CHamilton]

Nine Indiana, Ohio mayors to sign agreement supporting Chicago to Columbus passenger rail

Fort Wayne, Ind., Mayor Tom Henry and the mayors of eight other cities plan to sign a memorandum of agreement (MOA) calling for cooperation in development of a Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus passenger rail corridor.

The Indiana cities include Fort Wayne, Warsaw, Plymouth, Valparaiso and Gary. The Ohio cities represented are Columbus, Marysville, Kenton and Lima.

The MOA calls for the parties "...to systematically and incrementally develop the higher-speed rail intercity system in cooperation with existing freight rail operators and owners of right‐of-way along a corridor from Chicago to Columbus through northern Indiana, hereafter known as the Northern Indiana/Ohio High Speed Rail Initiative."

 

[neroden]

Nice. Having looked at the demographics of Indiana, I don't think the Ft. Wayne support will influence the Indiana government... but maybe with so much city support, something will happen in the Ohio legislature, despite *severe* gerrymandering.

 

[FormerOBS]

As an old Buckeye, I'd love it if my native State would adopt a forward-looking approach to modern passenger rail service. I'm not sure this particular plan is the right one, but I'm tempted to echo the old saying, "Do SOMETHING. Even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING". About a generation ago, a State legislator by the name of Wilkowski made a lot of news with his plan for a space-age high-speed rail plan for Ohio. I always thought his plan had some merit, but he wanted to create a brand new system from whole cloth instead of gradually building on the existing infrastructure. My idea was to start running trains and gradually improve rights of way over time until we had a truly modern high-speed system. His idea was to build a very expensive, brand new system from the ground up, and start with high-speed trains on Day 1.

As I read the map, it looks like the Columbus-Dunkirk, Ohio leg of the trip is the former T&OC (New York Central). Then from Dunkirk to Chicago, it's the old PRR mainline. I don't know the current status of the T&OC line. I know it's fairly straight, but I don't think it ever hosted any high-speed operations. A junction would have to be built at Dunkirk, and then you hit the old PRR mainline. The line then passes through Ada. At the turn of the last century, the Dunkirk - Ada stretch was the place where the unofficial world speed record for steam locomotives was estabished by PRR locomotive 7002. But that line is nowhere near its condition of 1900. Even though PRR steam engines routinely exceeded 100 miles per hour on these tracks during the period from 1900 to about the 1950's, The problem is that these lines COULD be brought to high-speed standards, but it would have been far better to have never let them deteriorate in the first place.

Now the cost would be pretty high. and the needed grade crossing eliminations would make it even higher. And the longer the delay, the greater the deterioration.

I also question the idea that this project would create almost 27,000 new, permanent jobs. Yes, it would require a lot of people to build it, and somewhat fewer to run it, but it seems unlikely that so many jobs would be created.

I dunno. I'm on the fence. But it's true that nothing will happen so long as Kasich is running the show.

Tom

 

[jis]

For getting any form of higher speed the tracks would have to be essentially re-laid anyway. The increase in cost over time would be mostly due to inflation more than anything else.

 

[dnsommer2013]

I rode The National Limited from New York to Columbus. It was an overnite train. Had all the amenities. Continued all the way to Kansas City to connect with The Southwest Limited. The station in Columbus was more like a single spur track in a freight yard than a station. The train was fueled there IIRC and potable water was added.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Amtrak is tiptoeing into this market with

a new Thruway bus Columbus-Pittsburgh.

As yet nothing connects to the Capitol or

the Lake Shore, probably due to their terrible

terrible times thru Ohio. But this is a start

however small.

 

[MrFSS]

Amtrak is tiptoeing into this market with

a new Thruway bus Columbus-Pittsburgh.

As yet nothing connects to the Capitol or

the Lake Shore, probably due to their terrible

terrible times thru Ohio. But this is a start

however small.

Well - it connects to the CL, just at PIT and not in Ohio.



But who wants to be at the COL bus station at 1:00 o'dark:30??

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Amtrak is tiptoeing into this market with

a new Thruway bus Columbus-Pittsburgh.

As yet nothing connects to the Capitol or

the Lake Shore. . . But this is a start

however small.

Well - it connects to the CL, just at PIT and not in Ohio.

Col Bus.jpg

But who wants to be at the COL bus station at 1:00 o'dark:30??

Not much of a connection to the Capitol Ltd Westbound

towards Chicago, what with Pittsburgh in the other direction.

All Ohio stops are terrible, terrible dark-of-night stops except

Toledo Westbound, at dawn in some lucky months. But

at least the trains will get you to Chicago, and amazingly,

tens of thousands of passengers board after midnight, most

of them in Cleveland and Cincinnati.

 

[Railroad Bill]

With the current "scandal" involving Democrat candidate Fitzgerald, Kasich is assured of another win in the election in November. As much as I would like to see service to and from Columbus, it is unlikely for another four years. Contrary to some earlier comments, both Columbus and Cincinnati are dominated by Republican voters in general. There are few "jet setters" in Columbus who think rail traffic is a viable option to get to Chicago or New York City. Any line at Columbus would be a great advantage to students at OSU; and those citizens who make up the inner city population similar to currently dominant ridership in Cleveland. And of course, we AU members who will ride a train at any place, any time, any where

Once you get south of Cleveland and Akron, there is a conservative majority who are less likely to support passenger rail.

 

[FormerOBS]

I was just thinking about possible routes for Pittsburgh - Columbus service. The B&O's old route via Wheeling is certainly not viable, and the old PRR Panhandle route via Steubenville is equally problematic. Seems to me the only practical route would be a connection to the Capitol Limited route at Alliance, taking the connecting cars west to Crestline, then southwest to Columbus on the old CCC&Stl. I have no idea about the condition of the track on these lines.

Tom

 

[Railroad Bill]

I was just thinking about possible routes for Pittsburgh - Columbus service. The B&O's old route via Wheeling is certainly not viable, and the old PRR Panhandle route via Steubenville is equally problematic. Seems to me the only practical route would be a connection to the Capitol Limited route at Alliance, taking the connecting cars west to Crestline, then southwest to Columbus on the old CCC&Stl. I have no idea about the condition of the track on these lines.

Tom

Most of the old B&O mainline east of Cambridge is gone. Genesee & Wyoming now owns the old Panhandle Line once used by PRR and later by Ohio Central. It is operated into Columbus and I suppose could be a possibility but would need additional tracks in places. NS still operates the former PFtW&Chicago into Crestline and would be, as you mentioned, the best alternative if CSX traffic on the old CCC line would permit. NS traffic is not that heavy but there are few places where two tracks or sidings exists.

Would be nice to board the train in Crestline.. My wife used to ride the Broadway to Chicago from Crestline in the 1950s. Great memories for her.

 

[neroden]

With the current "scandal" involving Democrat candidate Fitzgerald, Kasich is assured of another win in the election in November. As much as I would like to see service to and from Columbus, it is unlikely for another four years. Contrary to some earlier comments, both Columbus and Cincinnati are dominated by Republican voters in general.

This claim is not true. I've checked the voting patterns and demographics repeatedly; both cities proper vote consistently Democratic (as with pretty much every city in the entire US, including Akron, Canton, Youngstown, Warren, Sandusky, even Ashtabula). However, the *suburbs* of Cincinnati are Republican-leaning. The rural population of Ohio is quite large and tends to vote *much* more Republican, with the exceptions of the coastline and the area near Athens.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2008/10/more_ohio_counties_trend_democ.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/22/1279150/-Some-really-cool-maps-of-the-2012-Presidential-election-results-in-New-York-Pennsylvania-and-Ohio

This is the same general pattern nationwide: cities vote Democratic, rural areas vote Republican. There's only a couple of exceptions to it in Ohio (a few Democratic-voting rural areas).

The thing is that Ohio has a large truly-rural population; not as large as Indiana, but a much larger percentage than (for example) New York, where most of the population which looks "rural" on the map is actually concentrated in small cities. The gerrymandering in Ohio is the last factor; Democrats basically need to win huge in the suburbs or rural areas (which isn't likely) in order to get a majority in the legislature in Ohio, due to the city vote being devalued by gerrymandering.