Comparing Amtrak Cuisine to 1940's RR cuisine

[zepherdude]

This is an interesting thread. But remember that many people riding trains in the 1940's did not experience fine food in the diner. My parents grew up in Alabama, rode in segregated cars, and ate food that they brought from home. If they ate in a dining car they were required to sit in a section that was curtained off from other passengers.

Yes, I was on a train once and saw that, there were two tables with curtains and those were by the kitchen that was blazing hot, I remember asking about the curtain and who sat there. All I was told is "not us". That was on the Illinois Central in the late 1950s. As the 1960s approached, I read what the curtain was about and also read the Rail Road discontinued the separate seating and people sat together. The train went through some of the south to get to Jacksonville. I grew up in St. Louis and never really experienced the issues of segregated areas. These issues were not discussed at home, except my grandmother who was quite vocal. What can I say, she was a product of that type of thinking in the 1900-1940s.

I made the trip by train (PRR) between Chicago and Louisville in the 40's and 50's probably 30-40 times. I can remember when the train coming south stopped in Jefersonville, IN (last stop before crossing the Ohio River) the conductor came through and MADE all the African American folks to move to the last car of the train. Also, Louisville Union Station had very clearly marked segregated rest rooms and lunch rooms.

I too am from St. Louis have read about that curtain on the Illinois Central and blazing hot kitchen. I traveled The City of Miami and The Seminole to Florida several times which we picked up in Carbondale. My Mom was on the Missouri Pacific once from Little Rock to STL and she mentioned walking through a segregated train car. In the 1950s I was very young and the family (Parents and Nana) openly discussed segregation and were very vocal and prejudicial. I never understood what they were talking about until many years later I put it all together. Somewhere I came out going to inner city schools and was friends with persons of all races and liked everyone. I did not know any different and still don't. I am glad too!

In St. Louis, I have no recollection of bus, restaurant or Union Station waiting area issues. Union Station visits with my Dad were very cool.

 

[Carolyn Jane]

After our road trip this summer, through the Southwest, stopping at parks that had former Harvey House buildings, and the station in Dodge City, I bought the book about Fred Harvey, Appetite for America. Got it on my Kindle. It's really quite interesting, and has lots of recipes in the back. It bogs down when you get to the playboy grandson, but up until then it is quite illuminating. CJ

 

[jphjaxfl]

The Little Rock Union Station which Amtrak no uses had two concourses that went over the train tracks with steps going down to each track. One was a white concorse and the other the "colored" concourse. The "colored" concourse led to the end of the train. That was not right. By the early 1960s, the "other" concourse was closed off, as were the seperate rest rooms. The overhead concourses were torn down by MoPac in the late 1960s whene they were down to 2 trains per day. I remember meeting lots of really nice African American children and their families when we traveled by train as a child. They made what might have been a long trip in coach more interesting talking and getting to know them.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I do not think anybody will claim that the general food quality and regional variety is better today!!!!

I have made notes on my travels and about the only negative note on my long ago trips is that one time my green peas were a little watery on the CZ!!! Horrors!!!! I should have pulled the emergency cord like on I Love Lucy years ago!!!!! Oh, yes, I recall another trauma in which I could taste some coffee grounds in the bottom of my cup on the Silver Comet,(a Seaboard train which went NYC, DC, Richmond, Atlanta and Birmingham).

A national menu back then? Forget it.....no way could all those railroads have achieved such a thing back then nor would they have wanted to.

The railroads thought along the lines that if a potential shipper enjoyed his steak on the streamliner he would be more willing to ship his product on that line.

Many railroads advertised specific foods, as some have already said, such as the Northern Pacific Big Baked Potato. Some lines proudly advertised which farms supplied their hams, steaks, etc

SO,,,is anything actually BETTER UNDER AMTRAK? Well, how about that coffee and juice right there waiting for you? How about that fold out tray in front of you in the coach seats?, No doubt copied from the airlines.

There were many designs in the pre Amtrak times of diners, lounge cars, coffee ship lounges, grill lounges, food cars combined with either sleeper rooms or coach seats.

But guess what.....as interesting as that is, it meant a lot of lounge car types did not have nearly the variety of snack foods we have today. A sleeping car passenger today is spoiled rotten with all the coffee and juice and the possibility of sauntering down to the lounge to pay for a pack of chips etc to supplement your basic dining car meals.. And of course today's cafe cars supply sandwiches,pastries etc.

And about coaches and those meal trays. In the past you had to balance your food in coach on your lap and you used the ash tray for your drink.

What I am saying is that on many trains you had a full service full starch diner and a club lounge which did not serve much solid foods beyond peanuts or chips---no matter how beautifully decorated or how comfy the seats. But nothing in between. Fine dining or nothing. I must point out that these things differed all around the country.

Yep the beautiful streamliners of the past roaring though downtown were heart stopping. But where is the coffee? And, to expand the subject for a moment, where is the widespread use of showers?

 

[Wildcat]

Never rode in coach during the "great days," nor do I now. But... the food then was fabulous. Sure, there were some miscues but a rolling restaurant of gourmet quality was a real treat. Menus were naturally limited -- by space if nothing else. Only thing that compares was my honeymoon three years ago: five weeks traveling Europe on the Orient Express (not five weeks on the train, of course).

 

[Shortline]

Someone gave me some old video's, promo's made in the 20's and 30's of the great trains of the era. One of the scenes showed the diner being stocked by the commisary, interestingly enough, they were actually passing up full chickens to the car, beaks, feathers and all. You would think they would have already cleaned them and butchered, but these were full hens. I thought that was cool. Now, it's all microwaved to order....Wish they could come up with a happy medium, it doesn't ALL need to be fresh from the farm, but vacuum packed reheated steaks are miserable.....And, I don't think I'll have the Tilapia ever again, on a train or otherwise.....I guess I console myself with the thought that it's "free" with the ticket, and the experience is nice, but really, would anyone pay for an Amtrak meal in a stick and brick restaraunt?? Not me......

 

[AlanB]

Someone gave me some old video's, promo's made in the 20's and 30's of the great trains of the era. One of the scenes showed the diner being stocked by the commisary, interestingly enough, they were actually passing up full chickens to the car, beaks, feathers and all. You would think they would have already cleaned them and butchered, but these were full hens. I thought that was cool. Now, it's all microwaved to order....Wish they could come up with a happy medium, it doesn't ALL need to be fresh from the farm, but vacuum packed reheated steaks are miserable.....And, I don't think I'll have the Tilapia ever again, on a train or otherwise.....I guess I console myself with the thought that it's "free" with the ticket, and the experience is nice, but really, would anyone pay for an Amtrak meal in a stick and brick restaraunt?? Not me......

First, none of the food is ever microwaved on Amtrak. That which is reheated is heated in a convection oven, not a microwave. This does have an impact on how the food tastes and looks.

Second, about half of the food is cooked fresh on the train. Yes, those steaks may not have been cut fresh from the cow 10 minutes prior to being served. But they are NOT reheated on the train. They are taken out of the fridge and cooked to order. Some thing with omelettes and other items. Again, about half of the menu is reheated in the convection oven, the other half is cooked to order.

The only exception to this is the Cardinal, which does not have a full kitchen. There everything is done in the convection oven or the steam table.

 

[henryj]

All this talk about the 'good old days' misses the point that primarily first class passengers ate in the diner. We did not have that kind of money so we always rode coach. My grandmother and parents usually brought along snacks and/or fried chicken for us to eat. We rarely got a trip to a real diner. Some trains like the Sunset Limited had a separate coffee shop or cafe car where you could get a hamburger or sandwich. The best strawberry shortcake I ever had was on the Houston to Dallas Sunbeam. I spent my meager lunch money on that rather than lunch. lol. You could also buy sandwiches and drinks for a reasonable price on many trains. I did get to eat in the diner on the Twin Star Rocket and on the Pennsy's Spirit of St Louis(paid for by the US Army, lol). The Coast Daylight had a coffee shop car that was reasonable. The CZ also had a cafe car for coach passengers. But usually, you ate before you got on the train and only ate one meal, like breakfast or a hamburger type lunch as that was all you could afford. Food on trains was always expensive. When I ride Amtrak now days it is always first class sleeper. If you want to experience what the old days were like, take a trip on Via's Canadian. It hasn't changed in 50+ years. Still first class service.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

We can't get this on Matrak anymore, but can someone tell me where to get this book and for how much?

 

[Shortline]

Someone gave me some old video's, promo's made in the 20's and 30's of the great trains of the era. One of the scenes showed the diner being stocked by the commisary, interestingly enough, they were actually passing up full chickens to the car, beaks, feathers and all. You would think they would have already cleaned them and butchered, but these were full hens. I thought that was cool. Now, it's all microwaved to order....Wish they could come up with a happy medium, it doesn't ALL need to be fresh from the farm, but vacuum packed reheated steaks are miserable.....And, I don't think I'll have the Tilapia ever again, on a train or otherwise.....I guess I console myself with the thought that it's "free" with the ticket, and the experience is nice, but really, would anyone pay for an Amtrak meal in a stick and brick restaraunt?? Not me......

First, none of the food is ever microwaved on Amtrak. That which is reheated is heated in a convection oven, not a microwave. This does have an impact on how the food tastes and looks.

Second, about half of the food is cooked fresh on the train. Yes, those steaks may not have been cut fresh from the cow 10 minutes prior to being served. But they are NOT reheated on the train. They are taken out of the fridge and cooked to order. Some thing with omelettes and other items. Again, about half of the menu is reheated in the convection oven, the other half is cooked to order.

The only exception to this is the Cardinal, which does not have a full kitchen. There everything is done in the convection oven or the steam table.

Ok-Convection oven, not microwaved. Got it. Either way, same question-Would you go to a restaraunt intentionally, that served that food any place besides a dining car?

Not even taking the costs into the equation, obviously it's higher on the train, and should be-No problem there. Just asking, how many people would patronize a neighborhood restaraunt for a dry cheeseburger with pre-cooked (microwaved?) bacon, or a convection oven cooked to order steak, with a side of overly steamed veggies, and instant mashed potatoes? I don't know how they cook the steaks or burgers, but, I can't believe it's on a grill or flattop. Pre cooked french toast or pancakes for breakfast, with re-heated breakfast meats. That bacon certainly isn't cooked to order.....That's straight out of the box, and doesn't even require refrigeration. I suppose I haven't had everything on the menu, maybe some of the specials are good, I don't know. (that turkey someone posted in another thread DID look good, so maybe there's hope)

I like train travel for fun from time to time, and I like eating in the diner. But, lets not pretend the food is anything but passable, to what is a captive audience. Besides improving consistency in service, the diner is where I think things could be most improved, it's really just going through the motions now.

 

[AlanB]

Ok-Convection oven, not microwaved. Got it. Either way, same question-Would you go to a restaraunt intentionally, that served that food any place besides a dining car?

You'd be surprise how many restaurants today use pre-prepped stuff. I went with my brother & his family once to a Chili's and watched the waitress thrown my veggies into a microwave.

Just asking, how many people would patronize a neighborhood restaraunt for a dry cheeseburger with pre-cooked (microwaved?) bacon, or a convection oven cooked to order steak, with a side of overly steamed veggies, and instant mashed potatoes? I don't know how they cook the steaks or burgers, but, I can't believe it's on a grill or flattop.

Unless you hit a chef not following procedures or you had a steak right after SDS was rolled out, then your steak was not "cooked to order in a convection oven."

Pre cooked french toast or pancakes for breakfast, with re-heated breakfast meats. That bacon certainly isn't cooked to order.....That's straight out of the box, and doesn't even require refrigeration. I suppose I haven't had everything on the menu, maybe some of the specials are good, I don't know. (that turkey someone posted in another thread DID look good, so maybe there's hope)

Can't speak to the meats, but the French Toast is not fresh. That said, I have had some chefs start the prep in the oven and then toss it on the grill for a few minutes to finish it off. That makes a real difference!

I like train travel for fun from time to time, and I like eating in the diner. But, lets not pretend the food is anything but passable, to what is a captive audience. Besides improving consistency in service, the diner is where I think things could be most improved, it's really just going through the motions now.

Wasn't trying to suggest that it was the Ritz, as it is not. Just that food isn't microwaved on the train.

 

[Shortline]

Still not going to answer the question huh?

 

[AlanB]

I've gone to Chilli's several times since I first saw the waitress throw my veggies into the microwave.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I, too, recall the diner was considered expensive. And the trains I rode as a child did not usually have anything of a moderating nature, like a coffee shop lounge. I think mother usually got the cheapest thing on the menu. I would get much better because she knew it meant more to me than to her.

I would eat anything on the train. I did not appreciate salads until I grew up to more adult meals on the train .My first full cup of coffee was on the train from Chattanooga to Memphis on the local. My first cheesecake was eaten while crossing the Potomac River on the Southern Crescent hours late at midnight..

Probably my best dining car experience ever was on a UP dome diner on the City of Los Angeles. I had the finest steak. This was years before Amtrak superliners. I liked that car better than I liked El Capitan diner. I do not know which I rode first but they came out about the same time.

I have made many short day trips from Atlanta to Birmingham and back But what I remember most about that was the baked chicken northbound on the Southern Crescent. It was worth the whole day. It felt like Thanksgiving dinner.

Google Norman Rockwell "Boy on a diner". Look at the water smiling indulgently on him. I remember my first time to eat alone on a diner .It was on the original Crescent from Montgomery to Atlanta. Then on the Georgian from Atlanta to Chattanooga. I did not know how to tip. So I just announced loudly and proudly to the waiter that I was giving him a tip of eight cents. On the evening meal I announced my tip of thirteen cents. I tell you now those waiters were delighted by my well meaning but childish way to do things. They knew I intended no insult, just the opposite. Just like the waiter in the painting.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I actually miss the old tradition of having to fill out your own check, a tradition that survived several years into Amtrak. You were given a stubby little pencil and had to try and make legible writing on the narrow lines as the car rocked and swayed, and yet no matter how unreadable the final product was, the Waiter read it back like it was set in 72 Point type.

 

[trainman74]

I actually miss the old tradition of having to fill out your own check, a tradition that survived several years into Amtrak.

I remember it surviving at least into the early 1990s.

Actually, in modern times, I've a couple times had to stop someone at my table from filling out their own check. I can see why it happens, given that the LSA usually just slaps the checks on the table along with a couple of pens, seldom offering any explanation.

 

[henryj]

I, too, recall the diner was considered expensive. And the trains I rode as a child did not usually have anything of a moderating nature, like a coffee shop lounge. I think mother usually got the cheapest thing on the menu. I would get much better because she knew it meant more to me than to her.

I would eat anything on the train. I did not appreciate salads until I grew up to more adult meals on the train .My first full cup of coffee was on the train from Chattanooga to Memphis on the local. My first cheesecake was eaten while crossing the Potomac River on the Southern Crescent hours late at midnight..

Probably my best dining car experience ever was on a UP dome diner on the City of Los Angeles. I had the finest steak. This was years before Amtrak superliners. I liked that car better than I liked El Capitan diner. I do not know which I rode first but they came out about the same time.

I have made many short day trips from Atlanta to Birmingham and back But what I remember most about that was the baked chicken northbound on the Southern Crescent. It was worth the whole day. It felt like Thanksgiving dinner.

Google Norman Rockwell "Boy on a diner". Look at the water smiling indulgently on him. I remember my first time to eat alone on a diner .It was on the original Crescent from Montgomery to Atlanta. Then on the Georgian from Atlanta to Chattanooga. I did not know how to tip. So I just announced loudly and proudly to the waiter that I was giving him a tip of eight cents. On the evening meal I announced my tip of thirteen cents. I tell you now those waiters were delighted by my well meaning but childish way to do things. They knew I intended no insult, just the opposite. Just like the waiter in the painting.

Thanks for that Bill, that is pretty much how I remember it also.

 

[dlagrua]

I was not around during the 1940's to experience the dining car cuisine so I purchased a book called "Dining by Rail" which is a collection of all of the recipes used by the passenger railroads of old. We regularly cook these recipes and the food is fantastic,far better than anything Amtrak serves. Dining cars back then were like gourmet restaurants with 3 or 4 trained chefs in the dining car cooking fresh gourmet cuisine. Today's Amtrak food is acceptable but the fine art of railroad dining is gone.

 

[J-1 3235]

Thanks for sharing your memories with us, Bill

Mike

 

[BCL]

I bet there's rich folks eating in a fancy dining car,

They're probably drinking coffee, and smoking big cigars.....

 

[dlagrua]

Fine gourmet food , drink and smoking on trains is long a thing of the past. Amtrak food today is tasty and good. I compare it to food a step above diner and cafeteria food.

 

[Pete Nole]

Menus from Santa Fe and Southern Pacific RR's from the 40's

http://dbase1.lapl.o.../rb04442-02.jpg

http://dbase1.lapl.o...02212-front.jpg