Comparison of Amtrak vs. other transport mode

[john_f]

It definitely was NOT a scheduled 6-hour journey.... If they started in SAS at 6:25 AM to LCH, it would have been a scheduled 9hr trip, which is the shortest possible trip consistent with the original post.

The original post was a little ambiguous, but I think it was saying there was a 6 hour delay in a scheduled 12 hour trip....

So, the delay was only half so bad, which is probably small consolation. I was a bit tired and misinterpreted the post.

Unfortunately, Amtrak delays are much too common. Maybe if they finally, after more than 50 years, they finally start enforcing passenger train priority, and fine the freights for violating the law, things will improve....

Another wish, that I think would make everyone happier, is for Amtrak to invest in separate tracks, with a platform in between, at or near reciprocal direction meeting points, as is done at stations on single-track lines in Germany.

 

[BlackDiamond]

For me, part of my push for better OTP (and, long term, faster and more frequent trains) is that when I look elsewhere in the world and see (at least virtually) what train services are most relevant to people and get enough political support to be sustained and grow long-term, it's not the higher-end long-distance sleeper services. It's the regional networks and high-speed trains; ones that get people to where they want to go fast and reliably, even if the on-board food is just a cart service or bistro car. The train that's most relevant in the markets that it serves isn't the long-distance trains, even years ago when the service was bette

While this is true I should note that overnight sleeper trains are making a comeback in Europe with the success of NightJet and now other operators getting on the bandwagon.

 

[Qapla]

This is an itinerary where it would make way more sense to fly. Not sure where in FL you are but you can get from Tampa to San Antonio in 2 1/2 hours on Southwest.

I don't fly. Never have and don't plan to start now. I can't take heights

Plus a long bus ride before that from Florida to Atlanta? The train leaves Atlanta in the morning so we are talking either an overnight bus trip or an overnight in Atlanta.

The MegaBus ride is only 6 hours.

an overnight bus ride would be an absolute stopper, I won't go overnight in Amtrak coach, which is more comfortable than any bus. Adding a hotel night to avoid it adds time and expense, in addition to the mandatory overnight layover in New Orleans to connect from the Crescent to the Sunset.

MegaBus would leave about 6PM from Jax and arrive in Atlanta around midnight. Amtrak leaves Atlanta @9 AM. A 9 hour layover would not require a room.

The bus is $50 and Amtrak is $105 - I have no problem riding in coach.

Trying to book directly to SAS from JAX or PAK gets this result


So, using the bus would eliminate what would truly be a long and expensive train ride (through DC and possibly Chicago) with layovers that might require a night's stay (or two) and/or booking a sleeper is out of the question (budget won't allow the sleeper and I don't mind riding coach)


One of the bummer parts is that MegaBus used to run from Jax to NOL - they no longer offer that route.

 

[jruff001]

MegaBus would leave about 6PM from Jax and arrive in Atlanta around midnight. Amtrak leaves Atlanta @9 AM. A 9 hour layover would not require a room.

We certainly have different styles of traveling!

 

[jis]

So, using the bus would eliminate what would truly be a long and expensive train ride (through DC and possibly Chicago) with layovers that might require a night's stay (or two) and/or booking a sleeper is out of the question (budget won't allow the sleeper and I don't mind riding coach)


One of the bummer parts is that MegaBus used to run from Jax to NOL - they no longer offer that route.

Even with the ATL - NOL - SAS routing you do require a night layover in NOL, even though Amtrak just calls it a 11+ hour connection.

 

[Ryan]

If he "doesn't need a room" for a midnight to 9am connection, maybe the same holds true for him in NOL?

No way I'm not getting a room willingly signing up for those connections.

 

[zephyr17]

If he "doesn't need a room" for a midnight to 9am connection, maybe the same holds true for him in NOL?

No way I'm not getting a room willingly signing up for those connections.

Me neither.

 

[user 14106]

Interesting topic! I think the problem Amtrak can particularly have with the never again is that it’s more likely to be viewed as a discretionary form of transportation than say flying. People can have a miserable experience flying but at the end of the day are more likely to just conclude it’s a necessary evil to travel. Now I would add while I think Amtrak is more vulnerable to “never again” “never again!” proclamations in general can often be knee jerk reactions to bad experiences and are kind of a product that we as consumers can be entitled at times. And I think for many peoples it’s “never again” until they get over what happened. I’m sure some stick with it but many probably don’t especially if they hear that whatever grievance they may have had may have changed. The biggest source of true never againers is probably cost vs. value instances but even those can change if service improves or prices go down. At the end of the day “never again!” Is a reactionary thing and most people move on from such things, sometimes making some adjustments, but usually eventually getting over anger over what happened. And from most of my experiences if you can get through to Amtrak on an issue and get it the right person they are usually pretty good about vouchers/refunds which can sometimes address a potential never again when there’s an on board incident.

 

[jis]

Interesting topic! I think the problem Amtrak can particularly have with the never again is that it’s more likely to be viewed as a discretionary form of transportation than say flying. People can have a miserable experience flying but at the end of the day are more likely to just conclude it’s a necessary evil to travel. Now I would add while I think Amtrak is more vulnerable to “never again” “never again!” proclamations in general can often be knee jerk reactions to bad experiences and are kind of a product that we as consumers can be entitled at times. And I think for many peoples it’s “never again” until they get over what happened. I’m sure some stick with it but many probably don’t especially if they hear that whatever grievance they may have had may have changed. The biggest source of true never againers is probably cost vs. value instances but even those can change if service improves or prices go down. At the end of the day “never again!” Is a reactionary thing and most people move on from such things, sometimes making some adjustments, but usually eventually getting over anger over what happened. And from most of my experiences if you can get through to Amtrak on an issue and get it the right person they are usually pretty good about vouchers/refunds which can sometimes address a potential never again when there’s an on board incident.

I have often wondered what proportion of the alleged "never agains" actually turn out to be "never agains". Unfortunately it is quite hard to get that statistics.

 

[Maglev]

I have decided to never again ride a taxi. I am going to join Uber.

I recently traveled to Portland, Oregon, and took the train from and to Seattle. From home, I take a ferry to Anacortes, then catch a Bellair bus to SeaTac Airport, and then must get from SeaTac to the Amtrak station.

I decided I didn't want to take the Link light rail into the city, so I took a taxi. The driver did not speak English very well, and drove at unsafe speeds on the highway.

On the way back, I decided to alight the train at Tukwila, which is close to SeaTac. I called a taxi, and was soon informed that my cab was at the curb. I saw a taxi in the distance, and someone else got in and was driven away. So I called the taxi company, and they said they would tell me when another taxi was coming. Meanwhile, a car with an Uber sticker in the window drove by. I looked at the driver, and he looked at me, but I looked away and he drove off. A few minutes later, he drove by again. I waved, and asked him if he was waiting for someone. He said, "No." "Can you take me to the airport?" "Yes, $15 cash only." "Great! Let's go!"

I feel that a person who is driving their own car has an incentive to drive safely. Taxi companies seem to hire people desperate for work. But when I shared this with my wife, she expressed concern for her safety in an Uber vehicle.

 

[user 14106]

I have to confess I’m close to that on Taxis also as sad as I am to admit as I like to support local businesses. My last two taxi rides have involved the driver intentionally going longer roundabout routes to jack up the fare by making it take longer. With Uber and Lyft as much as I think the playing fields need to be equal as far as regulations, Uber and Lyft prevents those kinds of shenanigans.

 

[jis]

It has been many years since the last time I got in a taxi. It is my preference to know before hand what I will be paying rather than let a stupid Meter (which is possibly tampered with) over which the Taxi driver has indirect control in terms of what route he chooses to take determining what I will land up paying. I will not be using a Taxi in the foreseeable future unless there is absolutely no other choice. So yeah ... "Never Again".

 

[user 14106]

On my most recent taxi shenanigan (from Savannah Amtrak to the airport to get a rental car) I was extorted for close to $50. Needless to say I did Uber on the return trip from airport to Amtrak and it cost less than half… screams shenanigans. This driver didn’t even use the meter it was just a verbal thing.

 

[Eric in East County]

We must also factor in those people who give up on Amtrak because they are not able to book the sleeping car accommodations they want without having to do so 6-11 months in advance. Last July, we called Amtrak about booking bedrooms on the east and westbound Southwest Chief for September which is not a heavy travel month. Nothing was available for the dates we wanted. We then tried to book bedrooms for October. Once again, nothing was available for the dates we wanted. (It’s probably safe to assume that we could have made airline reservations for the dates we wanted with no problems.) We’re not sure how far in advance one has to book bedrooms on other long-distance trains in order to be sure of getting them for the dates requested, but it is probably about the same.

 

[joelkfla]

With Uber and Lyft as much as I think the playing fields need to be equal as far as regulations, Uber and Lyft prevents those kinds of shenanigans.

Actually, no. Both Uber & Lyft have charged me significantly more than their "upfront cost." Once because the driver did exactly what you described, took the long way around. The other was when the driver neglected to "end the ride", either intentionally or un-, and I was charged for the mileage to his next pickup in addition to my ride.

And both Uber & Lyft have completely eliminated human customer service. All you can do is appeal to the app, which invariably denies it with no explanation and no appeal, just "Your charge appears to be correct".

I was so ticked that I challenged the entire Lyft charge with my bank, hoping to get some human attention. Apparently Lyft doesn't have any staff to respond to that, either, because I never heard anything back until the bank said my claim was approved.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

On my most recent taxi shenanigan (from Savannah Amtrak to the airport to get a rental car) I was extorted for close to $50. Needless to say I did Uber on the return trip from airport to Amtrak and it cost less than half… screams shenanigans. This driver didn’t even use the meter it was just a verbal thing.

I liked the taxi system at Baltimore Penn Station, with a person managing the lineup, on a recent trip. The taxi downtown was cheap. That's one experience anyway. Last taxi ride in NYC - it also had uber/lyft signage - the driver tried to take me out of the way, then apologized when I caught him.

In olden daze, taxis in NYC were a lot cheaper than the unregulated mess at small city airports like you describe. "I rode from LGA to lower Manhattan cheaper than to the airport in Podunk," etc. At the same time, taxi medallions in NYC were worth a small fortune. It all went sideways with Uber/Lyft, initially running as loss leaders with fairly happy drivers, so it went sideways again. But like you say, at Savannah, I might trust Lyft more than a taxi. Others here have more experience traveling though.

At big airports, old days, we had the Super Shuttle type services, cheaper than taxis. I imagine there are less of those now? NYC taxis also had the problem of awful discrimination, and not wanting to go to the outer boroughs, and hard to find in the rain, etc.

 

[dlagrua]

It is likely that each and every one of us has had a bad travel experience. Once we arrived on the Empire Builder in CHI at 3AM. Two other times the A/C went out on the Cardinal and NE regional. Last year the door came of the tracks of our bedroom on the Capitol Ltd. A bit of lateness seems routine but its still better than flying where you are stuffed in a cylinder with 100 other people and planes are often late as well.

 

[MARC Rider]

Actually, no. Both Uber & Lyft have charged me significantly more than their "upfront cost." Once because the driver did exactly what you described, took the long way around. The other was when the driver neglected to "end the ride", either intentionally or un-, and I was charged for the mileage to his next pickup in addition to my ride.

And both Uber & Lyft have completely eliminated human customer service. All you can do is appeal to the app, which invariably denies it with no explanation and no appeal, just "Your charge appears to be correct".

I was so ticked that I challenged the entire Lyft charge with my bank, hoping to get some human attention. Apparently Lyft doesn't have any staff to respond to that, either, because I never heard anything back until the bank said my claim was approved.

I've generally had good experiences with Uber and Lyft. It's nice to know what the ride will cost before you get in, it's nice that you don't have to explain to the driver where you're going, and it's very nice that you don't have to fiddle around with money or credit cards at the end of the ride. I've never had a driver take me in a way that jacks up mileage, but I've had a couple of drivers whose GPS units sent them through a weird routing around my local neighborhood streets. I guess the mileage was technically a bit less that the more direct route I usually use. It was easy enough to describe the correct route to the driver.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Re Never Again. I used to fly a lot and so have had unpleasant situations on various airlines. I also had some amazing flights, so it averages out. When I had a particularly egregious experience, I didn't say never again, I said that particular airline had become my choice of last resort, somewhere ahead of renting a camel.

And regarding taxis, I very much prefer Uber and Lyft for the reasons stated above, but I will say that back in the day I was saved several times from unfortunate situations by taxis, for which I will always be grateful.

 

[wrowland]

I have decided to never again ride a taxi. I am going to join Uber.

I recently traveled to Portland, Oregon, and took the train from and to Seattle. From home, I take a ferry to Anacortes, then catch a Bellair bus to SeaTac Airport, and then must get from SeaTac to the Amtrak station.

I decided I didn't want to take the Link light rail into the city, so I took a taxi. The driver did not speak English very well, and drove at unsafe speeds on the highway.

On the way back, I decided to alight the train at Tukwila, which is close to SeaTac. I called a taxi, and was soon informed that my cab was at the curb. I saw a taxi in the distance, and someone else got in and was driven away. So I called the taxi company, and they said they would tell me when another taxi was coming. Meanwhile, a car with an Uber sticker in the window drove by. I looked at the driver, and he looked at me, but I looked away and he drove off. A few minutes later, he drove by again. I waved, and asked him if he was waiting for someone. He said, "No." "Can you take me to the airport?" "Yes, $15 cash only." "Great! Let's go!"

I feel that a person who is driving their own car has an incentive to drive safely. Taxi companies seem to hire people desperate for work. But when I shared this with my wife, she expressed concern for her safety in an Uber vehicle.

Cash only is a huge red flag; that most likely means the driver did not even record that trip with Uber. You were essentially a passenger in a strangers car with no record of it ever occurring. I've taken numerous Ubers in San Fran, New York, etc. And have never ever seen a cash only demand.

 

[Steve4031]

Cash only is a huge red flag; that most likely means the driver did not even record that trip with Uber. You were essentially a passenger in a strangers car with no record of it ever occurring. I've taken numerous Ubers in San Fran, New York, etc. And have never ever seen a cash only demand.

I think the driver worked for uber and picked up this op to be helpful. The driver's helpfulness probably convinced the op to download the app.

 

[Maglev]

I also paid an Uber driver cash in Emeryville for an off-the-books trip. Our taxi was delayed, and we had just seen the Uber driver unload a respectable-looking family at the hotel. He was driving a Mercedes, and looked trustworthy. Our taxi from San Francisco to Emeryville was leaking fumes into the passenger compartment.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Actually, no. Both Uber & Lyft have charged me significantly more than their "upfront cost." Once because the driver did exactly what you described, took the long way around. The other was when the driver neglected to "end the ride", either intentionally or un-, and I was charged for the mileage to his next pickup in addition to my ride.

And both Uber & Lyft have completely eliminated human customer service. All you can do is appeal to the app, which invariably denies it with no explanation and no appeal, just "Your charge appears to be correct".

I was so ticked that I challenged the entire Lyft charge with my bank, hoping to get some human attention. Apparently Lyft doesn't have any staff to respond to that, either, because I never heard anything back until the bank said my claim was approved.

I can only speak for Uber but I've always had Uber correct charges that were made in error for strange routes, missed turns, etc. I think it helps that I use Uber enough that they see me as a regular rider in the app.

Last year the door came of the tracks of our bedroom on the Capitol Ltd. A bit of lateness seems routine but its still better than flying where you are stuffed in a cylinder with 100 other people

For less than the price of a bedroom, you could most likely get a first-class airline seat that would hardly feel as though you were stuffed. As much as I love Amtrak, airlines do offer a pretty good product if you are willing to pay 1st class prices.

 

[basketmaker]

I liked the taxi system at Baltimore Penn Station, with a person managing the lineup, on a recent trip. The taxi downtown was cheap. That's one experience anyway. Last taxi ride in NYC - it also had uber/lyft signage - the driver tried to take me out of the way, then apologized when I caught him.

In olden daze, taxis in NYC were a lot cheaper than the unregulated mess at small city airports like you describe. "I rode from LGA to lower Manhattan cheaper than to the airport in Podunk," etc. At the same time, taxi medallions in NYC were worth a small fortune. It all went sideways with Uber/Lyft, initially running as loss leaders with fairly happy drivers, so it went sideways again. But like you say, at Savannah, I might trust Lyft more than a taxi. Others here have more experience traveling though.

At big airports, old days, we had the Super Shuttle type services, cheaper than taxis. I imagine there are less of those now? NYC taxis also had the problem of awful discrimination, and not wanting to go to the outer boroughs, and hard to find in the rain, etc.

Super Shuttle is still very common in the Denver area. Corporate taxis are a lot less common these days.

 

[Literalman]

When a taxi I'd called an hour earlier finally came and took us to the Newport News station, we got out and were the last people on board, and the train started moving right away. The next train was not till the following morning. We could have walked the three miles and gotten there earlier. For about 30 years afterward I never used a taxi. Now we are living car-free in Pennsylvania, and I would rather walk five miles than call a taxi, but if my wife wants to use one, we do. However, last year she needed to go to the emergency room at night and we called a taxi and waited 15 hours after saying we needed to go to the hospital. I finally called to cancel the ride and was told that the taxi company had canceled it after three hours but had not told us. We ended up riding the trolley to the hospital and should have done that to begin with. This past summer on a trip to Syracuse, I brought the phone numbers of four taxi companies but could not get a cab at the Amtrak station. I saw a Lyft driver refusing a ride because the passenger did not have a car seat for the child. I did not have a Lyft account, but the driver said he could take us to our hotel for cash, and he charged a fair price. I undoubtedly will ride in taxis again, but it's not my first choice.

I also used to ride Megabus a lot from Washington to Philadelphia because it was so much cheaper than Amtrak coach. But on a ride in spring of last year, we were going down the highway in a downpour with low visibility and too much speed, and when the drivers changed in Maryland, I heard our driver tell the new one that he could see only one car length ahead of him in the storm. Soon afterwards there were two accidents with Megabuses tipping over; as I recall, there were fatalities in one of the crashes. My attitude is pretty close to "never again" with Megabus.

Going to the Philippines to visit family involves three flights, with, for some reason, typically two trips through security for each. Holding up my pants with one hand (because I had to remove my belt) and having to pick up my shoes and everything else with the other hand while being hurried by security is so exasperating that if I could never fly again that would be all right with me.

End of three rants