Covid Mask Mandate for Transportation

[me_little_me]

Our last trip was in August 2020 to Whitefish on the EB. For common courtesy we did wear our masks when moving about the train but the train was loaded with Amish travelers few of whom had them pulled up, and many were mask free. While masks are good protection against bacteria there is evidence to suggest that they offer minimal protection against virus microbes that measure millionths of an inch. It is what it is, and by 2022 I believe that masks will be a thing of the past.

It's not the virus that the masks stop. It's the water droplets in which the virii reside. Masks stop some of the droplets completely and slow down the others so they tend not to travel as far.
When compared the size of even bacteria, water droplets are huge boulders as evidenced by the fact you can see them when someone is sneezing.

 

[Ryan]

there is evidence to suggest that they offer minimal protection against virus microbes

[citation needed]

 

[Anderson]

Indeed.

Per the quote, I find the situation to be a mess. Yes, I have my biases (clearly indicated earlier) here. But while they carved out that exception, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why "Must wear mask while in an International Business Class suite [where the airlines have been bloviating about how good the air filtration systems are for about a year] but not while in a [proverbial or literal] mosh pit" makes sense. There is hyperbole in my remarks, but I do think there's a pretty clear disconnect to be had there. Put somewhat differently, I suspect that I am at a higher risk of picking up the virus in a packed bar than I am in Acela First (or indeed, in a "normal" Amtrak dining car) even with folks shuffling in and out. Coach on a Regional is somewhere in the middle...if Amtrak remains at 50% capacity, the risk seems to be marginal (at most) while I'll agree that it is greater given theoretical full-selling of seats.

 

[IndyLions]

While I will continue to wear a mask where mandated - as I have through this entire pandemic - we are pretty much at the point where fully vaccinated people wearing masks is just silly and not the least bit science based.

“We don’t know enough” and “what about the 12 year olds” is not a valid response. There’s no significantly measurable danger any vaccinated adult is going to pose to anyone.

Are there exceptions? Sure - But they should be few and far between.

 

[jebr]

While I will continue to wear a mask where mandated - as I have through this entire pandemic - we are pretty much at the point where fully vaccinated people wearing masks is just silly and not the least bit science based.

“We don’t know enough” and “what about the 12 year olds” is not a valid response. There’s no significantly measurable danger any vaccinated adult is going to pose to anyone.

Are there exceptions? Sure - But they should be few and far between.

The real issue from a public health standpoint is that there's no easy way to prove vaccination status that can't be easily faked, at least across-the-board in the US. Given how some people have actively defied mask mandates already, it is quite likely that there will be some people who are unvaccinated that choose to act as though they're fully vaccinated under the CDC guidance. That puts others who are unvaccinated at risk - and given that not everyone can be vaccinated yet (particularly those under 12) and community spread is still quite prevalent, public health rules need to take that into account.

 

[Bob Dylan]

While I will continue to wear a mask where mandated - as I have through this entire pandemic - we are pretty much at the point where fully vaccinated people wearing masks is just silly and not the least bit science based.

“We don’t know enough” and “what about the 12 year olds” is not a valid response. There’s no significantly measurable danger any vaccinated adult is going to pose to anyone.

Are there exceptions? Sure - But they should be few and far between.

It's not silly @ all when you consider that there are Vaccinated people Testing Positive for COVID, and also there are those who.have had COVID being infected again.

If you want to go into a crowd without a Mask, be my Guest, but you wont get infected by me because I'm Vaccinated and will be wearing a Mask when around others!

It's common courtesy, but too many of people only care about themselves!

 

[flitcraft]

HoH/deaf don’t enjoy wearing masks if we’re using HAs or CI processors because the behind the ear straps can get tangled up with our devices and make it hard to remove the mask without dislodging the devices. There are other types of masks that are easier for us to use - but not as easy to obtain.

My husband had that problem--constantly pulling his hearing aids out when removing, or even adjusting, his mask. We found that the back-of-the-head strap that Tom Bihn sells solved that problem completely. It's compatible with any ear-loop mask, and they're made right in Seattle Washington, where all of his bags, masks, etc. are manufactured. You can find them by Googling Tom Bihn--they're only sold on their own website. (I highly recommend their bags, every-day-carries, etc. as well...)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

My husband had that problem--constantly pulling his hearing aids out when removing, or even adjusting, his mask. We found that the back-of-the-head strap that Tom Bihn sells solved that problem completely. It's compatible with any ear-loop mask, and they're made right in Seattle Washington, where all of his bags, masks, etc. are manufactured. You can find them by Googling Tom Bihn--they're only sold on their own website. (I highly recommend their bags, every-day-carries, etc. as well...)

Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve built up a weeks worth of Buff masks which use filters. I had seen those early on because I already had some of their neck gaiters and was using those initially. I still occasionally use the neck gaiters - I fold up from the neck to create 3 layers - when I’m just planning to be outside walking.

 

[IndyLions]

It's not silly @ all when you consider that there are Vaccinated people Testing Positive for COVID, and also there are those who.have had COVID being infected again.

If you want to go into a crowd without a Mask, be my Guest, but you wont get infected by me because I'm Vaccinated and will be wearing a Mask when around others!

It's common courtesy, but too many of people only care about themselves!

This isn’t about common courtesy any more. This is about taking steps that actually make a difference.

Masking up vaccinated people won’t end this pandemic one day sooner.

 

[Qapla]

Masking up vaccinated people won’t end this pandemic one day sooner.

Neither will unmasking ... but there does seem to be some indications that mask wearing slows the spread down as well as making it so we don't have to see so much bad dental work

 

[Bob Dylan]

This isn’t about common courtesy any more. This is about taking steps that actually make a difference.

Masking up vaccinated people won’t end this pandemic one day sooner.

The only problem with your comment is that 60% of the American people have NOT received the Vaccine, and a Majority of Republicans surveyed have said they won't get Vaccinated!

We all know that this disease is not going to go away, we will need to get Booster shots every year, and as variants continue to appear and countries like India,Mexico and Brazil ( where children and babies are dying in droves)continue to have increasing cases and Deaths, the reality is that it will continue to reappear here,that's a given.

I'm happy that the Mask mandate continues to be in effect on transportation, but I will not patronize any business or event that allow people to go Maskless where large crowds are present and Social Distancing is not practiced.

 

[me_little_me]

The real issue from a public health standpoint is that there's no easy way to prove vaccination status that can't be easily faked, at least across-the-board in the US. Given how some people have actively defied mask mandates already, it is quite likely that there will be some people who are unvaccinated that choose to act as though they're fully vaccinated under the CDC guidance. That puts others who are unvaccinated at risk - and given that not everyone can be vaccinated yet (particularly those under 12) and community spread is still quite prevalent, public health rules need to take that into account.

If vaccination status is determined by having a CDC card, then faking that is so easy, anyone with some computer experience can create such a card. CDC logos can be found online and miniaturized. The fonts are nothing unique. The stickers can be made using printable computer stickers and the card itself is ordinary card stock. Filling in the hand-written information can be done by anyone as who would know who wrote in the information?

The most reliable evidence is likely the states' databases. But those who don't want to be vaccinated will be the first ones to complain about their rights of privacy to this information and only big places like airports and cruise ship ports or online ticketing sites (ala Amtrak or major entertainment ticketing sites) would have the facilities to verify the vaccination.

 

[Asher]

I don’t think it’s going to take too long to see a significant scientific reaction to the new mask protocol.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I don’t think it’s going to take too long to see a significant scientific reaction to the new mask protocol.

Dr. Fauci said this morning on Face the Nation that based on the science there will likely be additional tweaks to the guidance coming out in the next couple of weeks. The situation is rapidly changing.

 

[John Santos]

If vaccination status is determined by having a CDC card, then faking that is so easy, anyone with some computer experience can create such a card. CDC logos can be found online and miniaturized. The fonts are nothing unique. The stickers can be made using printable computer stickers and the card itself is ordinary card stock. Filling in the hand-written information can be done by anyone as who would know who wrote in the information?

The most reliable evidence is likely the states' databases. But those who don't want to be vaccinated will be the first ones to complain about their rights of privacy to this information and only big places like airports and cruise ship ports or online ticketing sites (ala Amtrak or major entertainment ticketing sites) would have the facilities to verify the vaccination.

It's really really easy to hang around an ATM, wait for someone to withdraw cash, and club them over the head and take it. Just because it is really easy doesn't mean we should permit it.

 

[me_little_me]

It's really really easy to hang around an ATM, wait for someone to withdraw cash, and club them over the head and take it. Just because it is really easy doesn't mean we should permit it.

I never said it should be permitted. I say that using it as proof of vaccination is a joke - and a cruel joke on those too young or too unhealthy to get the vaccine since they (or caretakers)will be fooled into thinking that social distancing and masks can be relaxed somewhat.

 

[Asher]

I'd like to see bands do concerts for only vaccinated people, and Broadway shows, other forms of entertainment. I think you'd see that increase rates as well.

I think I’ll add Bars and Casinos.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Too each their own, but a Large Majority of Travelers dont want to be close to Strangers inside of places or on means of Transportation!

You're not wearing a Mask for you, you're doing it for others!
Stay home and stay Safe! if you cant wear a Face Covering!

No one has mentioned this... but the extension of mask wearing probably means another delay in full service dining; community seating at the dining tables with the mask mandate probably won't happen.

And Amtrak will not open full service dining with low density seating replacing the policy of 'packing 'em in; at it's tables. Hope I'm wrong!

 

[PVD]

The option of a same day pre-entry rapid test or a within 72 hour PCR is offered at many venues now for those who choose to (or cannot) be vaccinated.

 

[neroden]

I don’t think it’s going to take too long to see a significant scientific reaction to the new mask protocol.

Oh, the new CDC recommendations have already been condemned by every scientist I follow. Largely because there's no way to tell who's really vaccinated and who's faking it.

 

[PaulM]

Oh, the new CDC recommendations have already been condemned by every scientist I follow. Largely because there's no way to tell who's really vaccinated and who's faking it.

I would hope that it wouldn't take a scientist to make the same logical deduction.

 

[IndyLions]

Oh, the new CDC recommendations have already been condemned by every scientist I follow. Largely because there's no way to tell who's really vaccinated and who's faking it.

I guess I still don’t follow all the angst over vaccinated people not wearing masks based on the CDC recommendation. The vaccinated are not likely to catch Covid and are not likely to spread it. In the unlikely event they do catch it, they aren’t going to die.

If someone unvaccinated goes maskless, which is bound to happen - they could catch it and/or spread it to other unvaccinated people. But at this stage every unvaccinated adult has had the chance to be vaccinated, so they’ve signed up for the risk.

Yes - for a school play at an elementary school all adults vaccinated or not should be required to wear masks. But the CDC recommendation at schools hasn’t changed - so that’s moot.

If some of you don’t feel comfortable going maskless than you are perfectly in your right to keep masking up.

But what in the current situation makes you so insistent everyone else who has been vaccinated should be forced to continue masking up as well - even when the CDC says it’s safe?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Our So Called Governor, the Big Believer in Small Government and Local Control, has just issued an Executive Order that prohibits any Government Agency or School District in Texas from requiring Face Coverings!!!

Why do I feel so Safe???

 

[IndyLions]

Our So Called Governor, the Big Believer in Small Government and Local Control, has just issued an Executive Order that prohibits any Government Agency or School District in Texas from requiring Face Coverings!!!

Why do I feel so Safe???

I understand you may not feel safe, but as an independent I have whiplash!

Republicans believe in local government, until the local government makes a decision they don’t like.

Democrats believe everyone should follow the CDC, until the CDC makes a decision they don’t like.

Sigh.

 

[Anderson]

Oh, the new CDC recommendations have already been condemned by every scientist I follow. Largely because there's no way to tell who's really vaccinated and who's faking it.

I mean, they gave us those nifty cards...

There were a slew of issues that had arisen. On the one hand, the CDC needed to revise its guidance. Based on what I've seen (both anecdotally and in whatever data sources exist), the complete lack of a change in much of the guidance over the last few months had led folks to start ignoring it because the "asks" in it were not closely connected with realistic expectations. Implicitly telling a fully-vaccinated family to walk on eggshells when getting together just wasn't going to cut it, and IIRC the guidance that was issued was rather complicated (to put it mildly).

I think there's a case that the CDC veered too far to the other side, and the idea that, for example, one activity is safe sans mask per their guidance in Florida or Texas but not in California or New York comes across as something of a disconnect (obviously, the phrasing was aimed at avoiding CDC guidance being in direct opposition to existing rules rather than merely being vaguely disconnected from it). It really feels like the CDC's guidance is "Once you get your shots and it's been two weeks, you're not our problem".

But the bottom line is that in a case like this, it can be better to issue guidance that you think people will actually listen to than guidance that is "right" but that folks are going to simply ignore. The best analogy here is the fight over abstinence-only sex ed...yes, not having sex means you're not going to get pregnant or (for the most part) pick up an STD, but the reality is that if that's all you teach, a lot of folks are going to ignore the advice because something something biological imperatives. And of course, if you start giving too much advice that folks ignore, that reduces the chance that folks will listen to you later (here, the best analogy is probably the 55 MPH speed limit...if you tell folks to go 55 everywhere, sooner or later they start judging a safe speed for themselves).

So put plainly, the CDC was trying to set a 55 MPH speed limit and I think that they found a bunch of vaccinated folks were saying "Screw this" and doing 90, so they tried compromising on a 75 MPH speed limit for them. I don't think this was a fight they won, or that they were going to win, but I think that's essentially what happened.