Crew taking up lounge tables - What would you do?

[Ryan]

It's worked for me for 30 years, so I guess I'll keep at it.

 

[Neil_M]

I seriously doubt that a conductor is going to risk his job over a single picture taken. The situation I'm envisioning, you've taken the picture of the lounging crew members before any of them say anything about not taking any pictures. After that point, if you comply with everything that the conductor tells you to do, there can be no way that you can be deemed to be interfering.

Pretend the world works that way at your own risk.

Front the lazy crew out, ask them to move so you can sit down as a fare paying passenger. If the crew are working then they should be working, if they are on rest then a designated area should be set aside for them. Just another example of its Amtrak and we have to accept it because it has always been like that.

 

[AlanB]

I seriously doubt that a conductor is going to risk his job over a single picture taken. The situation I'm envisioning, you've taken the picture of the lounging crew members before any of them say anything about not taking any pictures. After that point, if you comply with everything that the conductor tells you to do, there can be no way that you can be deemed to be interfering.

Pretend the world works that way at your own risk.

Front the lazy crew out, ask them to move so you can sit down as a fare paying passenger. If the crew are working then they should be working, if they are on rest then a designated area should be set aside for them. Just another example of its Amtrak and we have to accept it because it has always been like that.

The crew does have a designated area set aside for them when on break, on most LD's three places in fact. They have their sleeper compartment, they can occupy a table in the dining car for their meals, and on Superliner equiped trains they have the crew lounge in the Trans/Dorm car. On single level trains, there is no crew lounge.

Now on short haul trains, that's different. There is no place for the crew to hang out, except the cafe car. Of course on short haul trains, the amount of crew is pretty much limited to the LSA running the cafe car. The one exception would be Acela where you have First Class attendants.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.

on the LSL there was a sign over one of the coach seats that said crew use only or one of the trains we rode during the gathering.

 

[AlanB]

Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.

on the LSL there was a sign over one of the coach seats that said crew use only or one of the trains we rode during the gathering.

That's so the attendant has some place to sit during the day while keeping an eye on the coach, rather than having to run back to their sleeping compartment, which depending on the coach could be a very long walk.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

Guess what folks.....The police DON"T need your permission to take a video or picture of you when YOU do something wrong. Amtrak employees certainly are not exempt from the law. Yes ...certain members of the train crew do need space to do paper work; but should be doing this on "off hours" of the food service areas. Would that stop me from sitting down to enjoy my meal or to relaxe with them at there table if all tables are full?.... NO!!!!!! So if you floped your butt down in one of the seats at there tables what are they going to do or what can they say?? Just return the the stares and sneers if one is presented to you. I would just make sure that you record everything said and done if a attitude deveolps with a member of the crew. If some these stories are really true that some of you are writing on here, then I would personelly document everything and report it to Amtrak and to a lawyer if need to be.

 

[TVRM610]

I realize that it can be annoying to see the crew sitting at tables in the lounge but really people, you have a tray table! I also have very rarely seen a lounge completely full (meaning there is not room at any passenger tables) and the crew still taking up more than two tables. Again, two tables are completely justifiable in my book.

Personally, I would never be so bold as to argue with Amtrak crew about them taking up tables, let alone try to take there picture! That seems a bit over the line to me weather or not its illeagal. Now I have had Amtrak crew ask nicely if they can join my table, and had some great conversations!

 

[user 1215]

I agree that the crew should be working out the view or space of the passengers. In Japan on most long distance trains, there are crew booths where the conductor can, with the door open or closed, perform his onboard duties. The door is clearly marked "CONDUCTOR", and as such it is off limits to customers. It is NOT revenue space.

The problem is, I do not like trains on which I am isolate from the crew! It's reassuring for a lot of people, for reasons of safety and the conduct of others around them, to know that a crew member is nearby and in the same shared space.

It would not be off the train or outside of the passenger coaches, but rather a private booth area within the train that a passenger could physically walk up to and knock on the door if there was an issue.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Of course they could always do like the school bus and put a mirror above the Conductor's station where he can keep an eye on his pax and make everyone sit down if they get too rowdy :lol:

 

[had8ley]

Guess what folks.....The police DON"T need your permission to take a video or picture of you when YOU do something wrong. Amtrak employees certainly are not exempt from the law. Yes ...certain members of the train crew do need space to do paper work; but should be doing this on "off hours" of the food service areas. Would that stop me from sitting down to enjoy my meal or to relaxe with them at there table if all tables are full?.... NO!!!!!! So if you floped your butt down in one of the seats at there tables what are they going to do or what can they say?? Just return the the stares and sneers if one is presented to you. I would just make sure that you record everything said and done if a attitude deveolps with a member of the crew. If some these stories are really true that some of you are writing on here, then I would personelly document everything and report it to Amtrak and to a lawyer if need to be.

Sorry Charlie...all the crew member has to do is declare the area crew space and report you to the conductor. I'm afraid if you pushed it too far you'd be looking for a Greyhound station at the next stop. Another glaring example of, "This is OUR train and you WILL abide by our edicts even though we make them up as we roll along."

 

[dlagrua]

Thats why the trains were better off in the days when Pullman ran the porter crew. Old man Pullman would not tolerate any nonsense. Back in the day these people would be fired but now they have cushy government jobs and many are arrogant. Best that you could do is to get the names of these people,send a letter to Amtrak management and demand that they fix the problem. The crew get paid to serve the passengers and not the other way around. When they start paying us then then can have the tables.

 

[Zevzec]

I would email/write/call Amtrak Customer Service if I couldn't find a place to sit in a Cafe or Lounge because the train staff was 'hanging out'. It looks bad and presents the wrong image: Overpaid union/government workers who don't do much if anything for a pay check. I know that's not true at all but to a novice passenger it can really send a negative message. Amtrak needs to better educate their work force regarding this type of behavior. Its all in the presentation.

.........And, almost all of us carry cell phones these days. I have to tell you, I get a certain amount of mischievous glee when I do this, taking pictures of crew, all splayed out taking up space, it is a GREAT WAY to get them to clear out.

invariably, one of more of them will ask you, "What you taking pictures for?" (because you are focusing on THEM, and not the train or the scenery outside the window) ANSWER. "I'm gonna email it to Amtrak Customer Service, and SHOW them why I couldn't find a table to sit at...."

Be PREPARED for some pretty gruff responses. And if your dining car waiter happens to be in that group, you might want to skip your next meal.

If you don't like confrontation, don't do this. Now I've only done this twice, and only after making obvious attempts to sit down (with my kids all holding carry-out boxes full of snacks) But I was just plain pissed that the crew was having their own little "reunion" as one OP stated.

The effect was like dropping a nuke. GONE. FAST. UGLY SNEERS.

We sat down and enjoyed our snacks, and scenery...............

This is brilliant.

 

[SouthernServesTheSouth]

Why are the Amtrak bigwigs scared of the rank and file?

None of them have the guts to sneek out of their office, grab their family and act like the common Joe and take a cross country trip and observe their employees from our point of view.

Nooooo, they make a big show of letting everyone in their office know what they are doing and the word is leaked out to everyone when they make their inspection.

Where are the "secret customers." for pax trains? Airlines use them, Resturants use them, Hotels use them.

I guess the problem continues to be, they won't act on any problems found.

"No one likes a snitch" is that a threat? Maybe coffee in your lap, luggage "miss placed", or mystery dressing on your sandwich?

I have had many a great attendant, also one I never saw after departing for a 2 day trip. Wait, I did see him with his hand out at the end of the trip.

 

[TVRM610]

Amtrak is not a cruise line or a fine hotel, I think some people are getting a bit crazy about a couple of people sitting at a table! Yes I get it, but writing amtrak because a worker was "sitting in the lounge car" is a bit extreme. Let's be reasonable and enjoy our train trip. Last time I checked... every seat had a tray table.

 

[Rumpled]

My problem on the Surfliner has not been the cafe tables, but the coach seating.

Crew seems to reserve two to three 4 seat areas at the control end car.

Even when full of passengers they haven't given up these areas.

These seats are lightly used by crew as they are roaming the train doing their jobs pulling tickets etc.

I've been forced to stand watching 8-12 empty seats, when questioning this once at LAUS I was tossed off the train and threatened with arrest.

 

[BlueJeanGirl]

That would be the cab car, as the trainset is pushing?

If so, one of the reasons is for the safety of our engineer. You have seen the size and number of carry-ons our passengers bring. Setting 50+ pound suitcases in front of the closed door means in the event of an emergency, the engineer is unable to exit the cab.

Passengers standing in front of that door are even more dangerous, with the potential of vocal distractions, music, children, or other noise. I have been in the cab with the engineer, and a group of passengers behind the door were so loud we were unable to hear the dispatcher on the radio. Safety? It must be our highest priority.

We have repeatedly asked for a retrofit of the Surfliner cab cars to enclose the area from the baggage stairwell to the end of the car, for the safety of the engineer, with no success.

(Additionally, when this area is not closed off, we often find passengers attempting to exit through the baggage area, leading to another bushel of issues.)

I cannot imagine any conductor asking you to exit the train for asking a question of this nature, unless your manner, demeanor, or actions gave the conductor cause to regard you as a potential security risk. I wasn't there, though.

Travel light!

~BJG

My problem on the Surfliner has not been the cafe tables, but the coach seating.Crew seems to reserve two to three 4 seat areas at the control end car.

Even when full of passengers they haven't given up these areas.

These seats are lightly used by crew as they are roaming the train doing their jobs pulling tickets etc.

I've been forced to stand watching 8-12 empty seats, when questioning this once at LAUS I was tossed off the train and threatened with arrest.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

also you got to remember what happens if a cab car should hit a car. there ALLOT lighter then a locomotive and not as strong. its a liability i would also think. theres some commuter rails(MBTA) that rope off the cab car section of the train.

 

[Asst Conductor OKJ]

I can attest first hand to what BJG has stated.

I have also had to whitness first hand what engineers hear from the pax through the walls of the cab car. Unfortionatly its a poor design, as the engineer can hear everything the pax are saying in the car. When running in thick fog or when trying to call work crews on the tracks ahead it can be really distracting to have sombody on the cell phone right outside the door yelling. Its for your own safty to have the engineer able to focus their full attention to running the train.

You also need to remember that on certain consists (surfliners and others that dont have a designated crew area), the paperwork that a conductor must carry can easily encroach upon one table per conductor. Thankfully on most of the trains in Northern CA, we have the lower level of the cafe car for crew use with adiqute room for paperwork, but when we have a 'panic box' or the low level surfliner cafes, we are entitled to one table per crew member for the purposes of paperwork. This is usually one table at each end of the train, along with the possibility of a table in the middle of the train if there is an extra AC.

Now for when crews are needlessy occupying space for no purpose other than lounging, thats a different stoy. My best suggestion would be to approach the conductor in a humble way asking politly if they could help you find a seat at a table to enjoy your meal. If you are still unsatisfied with the response than I would find it reasonable to write amtrak customer relations and document, names (if you have them), date, train number, and stick to the facts trying to be emotionally un attached. Letters with nothing but slander are not likly to be followed up on.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.

 

[AAARGH!]

Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.

Do they track who writes what? If I write several 'good' letters and then one 'bad' one, do they track that I had written the other letters and thus give more credence to it as you suggest?

I hope they do, but are we giving Amtrak customer service too much credit here?

 

[printman2000]

Last time I checked... every seat had a tray table.

Not quite accurate. The front row seats and the two seats right behind the stairwell on Superliner Coaches do not have tray tables. More legroom, but no tray tables.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.

Do they track who writes what? If I write several 'good' letters and then one 'bad' one, do they track that I had written the other letters and thus give more credence to it as you suggest?

I hope they do, but are we giving Amtrak customer service too much credit here?

Make reference to it. If they gave you a case number in a response, note them. So you write a letter as follows:

Dear Amtrak,
As you should know from my previous letters to your company, such as ones you assigned case numbers X, Y, and Z, I am generally very supportive of your staff. While the timing can leave something to be done, I rarely see your people giving me less then 110%. And I continue to deeply appreciate most of them.

However, there are bad eggs in every basket, and as bad eggs go, I found one group in your system that was truly rotten. Idiot Conductor X and his OBS friends Y and the dreaded Z worked together on your trip aboard train # 666 as part of my reservation [reservation number], to make me downright miserable.

In a unprofessional and, quite frankly, lazy fashion, Y and Z took up 3 tables in the lounge car between them and were not willing to let me sit down with my meal purchases and, indeed, Y was reluctant to even get up and serve me them. This happened several times during the trip. The last time I went into the lounge car, their treatment was so lousy that I went and found Conductor X who, upon hearing my complaint, added insult to injury by threatening to throw me off the train if I were to continue to interfere in the business of the crew.

These crew members, especially with their present attitude, are a liability. They are the kind of liability that completely displaces the kind of asset you have with your good employees. While my good experiences mean this is not going to be my last ride on Amtrak, I can not help but think they have permanently turned off many first time riders. As a customer, I suggest that you, at the very least, give these employees some additional training to bring them up to the standards of excellence the vast majority of your service personnel set so well.

Thank you for your time,

[your signature]

Its also the tone. Calm, considered, thought out. I am not writing this 5 minutes I got home from the train from hell, exploding through the ears every thirty seconds and looking to not only have X fired, but to have Y tarred and feathered, and Z summarily executed. You just sound angry. Angry people are unreasonable. Their perspectives are exaggerated. They are best ignored.

But a letter like the one above? Its calm, collected, logical, rational. I put some careful thought into it. That I am writing a negative letter, after my bouyant support of so many trains and employees, these people must have really irritated me. And yet, I still try to give them a fair shake. I have no axe to grind. I just want to help, both myself and the company.

Wouldn't you prefer to listen to someone like that?

 

[AAARGH!]

Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.

Do they track who writes what? If I write several 'good' letters and then one 'bad' one, do they track that I had written the other letters and thus give more credence to it as you suggest?

I hope they do, but are we giving Amtrak customer service too much credit here?

Make reference to it. If they gave you a case number in a response, note them. So you write a letter as follows:

Dear Amtrak,
As you should know from my previous letters to your company, such as ones you assigned case numbers X, Y, and Z, I am generally very supportive of your staff. While the timing can leave something to be done, I rarely see your people giving me less then 110%. And I continue to deeply appreciate most of them.

However, there are bad eggs in every basket, and as bad eggs go, I found one group in your system that was truly rotten. Idiot Conductor X and his OBS friends Y and the dreaded Z worked together on your trip aboard train # 666 as part of my reservation [reservation number], to make me downright miserable.

In a unprofessional and, quite frankly, lazy fashion, Y and Z took up 3 tables in the lounge car between them and were not willing to let me sit down with my meal purchases and, indeed, Y was reluctant to even get up and serve me them. This happened several times during the trip. The last time I went into the lounge car, their treatment was so lousy that I went and found Conductor X who, upon hearing my complaint, added insult to injury by threatening to throw me off the train if I were to continue to interfere in the business of the crew.

These crew members, especially with their present attitude, are a liability. They are the kind of liability that completely displaces the kind of asset you have with your good employees. While my good experiences mean this is not going to be my last ride on Amtrak, I can not help but think they have permanently turned off many first time riders. As a customer, I suggest that you, at the very least, give these employees some additional training to bring them up to the standards of excellence the vast majority of your service personnel set so well.

Thank you for your time,

[your signature]

Its also the tone. Calm, considered, thought out. I am not writing this 5 minutes I got home from the train from hell, exploding through the ears every thirty seconds and looking to not only have X fired, but to have Y tarred and feathered, and Z summarily executed. You just sound angry. Angry people are unreasonable. Their perspectives are exaggerated. They are best ignored.

But a letter like the one above? Its calm, collected, logical, rational. I put some careful thought into it. That I am writing a negative letter, after my bouyant support of so many trains and employees, these people must have really irritated me. And yet, I still try to give them a fair shake. I have no axe to grind. I just want to help, both myself and the company.

Wouldn't you prefer to listen to someone like that?

WOW!

Next time I need to write a complaint letter to Amtrak, I will hire you. Very well done.

 

[Tony]

I just stumped upon this in Amtrak Operations Standards, and thought I would share (seemed appropriate) ...

Employees may use seating space in food service cars at their discretionwhen such cars are not serving passengers, as prescribed herein. It is the

responsibility of the Conductor to ensure that these guidelines are

followed.

All tables in the Dining Car are for the exclusive use of customers during

all meal periods. Crew members are never to occupy tables in the Dining

Car during meal periods. Crew members and crew members who are

deadheading in conjunction with work that plan to eat during meal

periods may order their meals “to go” and are to consume their meal at

one of the following locations:

• Crew Dorm Car

• Sleeping Car (employee room only)

• Crew Coach Seat

Employees must avoid occupying any seating space in food service cars

whenever practicable in the performance of their duties, when such cars

are open and providing service to passengers. If crew office or dormitory

car space is not available, employees are expected to use a vacant coach

seat with drop-down seat tray with which to perform administrative

functions associated with their responsibilities.

When it is absolutely necessary to use table space in food service cars

during their hours of operation, no more than one table may be used for

this purpose. Employees’ grips and outerwear may not be left on the table

or seats, but must be neatly stowed under the table, out of sight, if there is

no other secure place on the train to store these items. Employees must be

mindful of the fact that they are utilizing space intended for the use of

passengers, and must maintain proper decorum and a clean, organized

work surface at all times.

And...

All tables in the Dining Car are for the exclusive use of customersduring all meal periods. Crew members who wish to eat during meal

periods may order their meal “to go” and are to consume their meal at

one of the following locations:

o Crew Dorm Car

o Sleeping Car (employee room only)

o Crew Coach seat

 

[wayman]

Dear Amtrak,
As you should know from my previous letters to your company, such as ones you assigned case numbers X, Y, and Z, I am generally very supportive of your staff. While the timing can leave something to be done, I rarely see your people giving me less then 110%. And I continue to deeply appreciate most of them.

However, there are bad eggs in every basket, and as bad eggs go, I found one group in your system that was truly rotten. Idiot Conductor X and his OBS friends Y and the dreaded Z worked together on your trip aboard train # 666 as part of my reservation [reservation number], to make me downright miserable.

From now on I will be on the lookout for the dreaded Z (shudder!) on my Keystone trips. Sounds like I want to avoid riding in his car at all costs!!! :blink: (For anyone confused by my reply, Train 666 actually exists, a weekend Keystone departing Harrisburg at 11:20am. Which suggests its next-to-last stop, Newark, is purgatory, and its final destination, NYP, is hell? No comment! :lol: )