CS service advisory this week (10/26); Techachapi detour??

[jackal]

Not a lot of notice, but came across this:

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/pacific-surfliner-trackwork-oxnard-goleta-california.html

I assume that means the Starlight is being detoured over Tehachapi today.

Can anyone confirm?

Too bad it's not next week--I have some free time and would have flown out to take the detour...

 

[Train2104]

Yes, it's going over the loop?

Does the train change ends at Oakland?

 

[jackal]

Yes, it's going over the loop?

Does the train change ends at Oakland?

I thought previous TL detours bypassed everything to SAC, which makes sense (following the route of the Bakersfield-Sacramento San Joaquins and then north from there), but some Googling indicates that Oakland is the normal rejoining point.

No idea how that works, though, if they follow the Oakland-bound San Joaquins (looping in from the north and coming down through Richmond). Perhaps they don't and instead take the ACE route from Stockton to Niles Junction and then north?

 

[roadman3313]

Yes. On the train 14 now. Typically the detour takes the UP routing in the valley, not the BNSF routing that the San Joaquin takes. Using non-formal terminology the train follows the Metrolink route to Lancaster then heads over Techachapi to the old UP depot in Bakersfield. Crew change takes place there. Train continues up the UP towards the Stockton area where it moves to the ACE train route over the Altamont to Niles Junction. Then it takes the Capitol Corridor route up to Oakland which will be the first passenger stop after leaving LA. The train should wye-back once to change to the ACE train route near Stockton. Again not using technical routing terms, however hopefully that paints somewhat of a picture of the routing. 11 will also use this routing today. Back to normal tomorrow.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Wow, UP thru San Joaquin Valley? Almost as interesting as Tehachapi Pass, given the whole kerfuffle of SP vs Santa Fe when the San Joaquin service was being planned out.

 

[calwatch]

Not half bad - the northbound train was only 33 minutes late into Oakland. Southbound train an hour and 22 minutes down, although it left Oakland an hour late out of the gate.

 

[roadman3313]

On 14 we held briefly at two spots for two scheduled Metrolink trains. I'd say no more than 10 minutes total. Got into old Bakersfield Station on the UP line around 245pm give or take and waited for the conductor and engineer crew change. Both parts of the trip had the regular crews so I assume they were driven to/from San Luis Obispo to Bakersfield. Left there around 330pm. (All times are estimates as I wasnt closely watching the time). We were allowed to leave the train and stretch there. Had a few 30 MPH speed restrictions due to construction and other things coming up the valley but no big pauses. Topped out 60 MPH most of the later part of the trip. Had two meets with ACE trains, one after we made the wye maneuver of about 15 minutes, another going up Altamont Pass. Final hold was in Fremont at a grade crossing for about 10 minutes or so. Not sure if that was for the engineer crew change or not. No major delays and it seemed most of the freights were on side tracks waiting for us, especially over Tehachapi (mostly all BNSF ones though). Parlor Car was mostly always full, however the sightseer lounge had plenty of space. Dining car had ample of space for meals as well and we never had a full table of four (though some tables were full). Lots of railfans, retired, and current Amtrak employees (including a uniformed Amtrak Police Officer) on board for the ride. Overall a very relaxing and enjoyable trip for the One Stop we rode (LA to Oakland)!

 

[sechs]

Yes. On the train 14 now. Typically the detour takes the UP routing in the valley, not the BNSF routing that the San Joaquin takes. Using non-formal terminology the train follows the Metrolink route to Lancaster then heads over Techachapi to the old UP depot in Bakersfield. Crew change takes place there. Train continues up the UP towards the Stockton area where it moves to the ACE train route over the Altamont to Niles Junction. Then it takes the Capitol Corridor route up to Oakland which will be the first passenger stop after leaving LA. The train should wye-back once to change to the ACE train route near Stockton. Again not using technical routing terms, however hopefully that paints somewhat of a picture of the routing. 11 will also use this routing today. Back to normal tomorrow.

If I recall correctly:

Leave normal route at Burbank Jct.

SCAX Valley Sub. to Palmdale Jct.

UP Mojave Sub. to Bakersfield

UP Fresno Sub. to Hicks (Lathrop)

UP Oakland Sub. to Niles Jct.

Rejoin normal route

 

[Geordie405]

It was actually a very good trip. I was also on board from LAX to OKJ - my first time over Tehachapi. I think the Fremont delay may have been for a track warrant. The dispatcher had 18 leading whereas it was 188 and so the warrant was invalid and had to be cancelled and re-issued. In terms of the police, there was one uniformed officer and at least one plain clothes. There were at least four additional officers at Los Angeles with one passenger in the 1432 car being questioned and having their bags searched as we boarded, and another passenger who was trying to force his way into the car past our attendant being questioned on the platform. We had a very good crew in terms of conductor out of Los Angeles, our car attendant, and CJ in the Parlor Car.

As for the routing, I was quite surprised (and pleased) that we took the UP north from Bakersfield. I had expected us to go on the BNSF tracks via Hanford and Fresno - presumably would have meant no need for UP route conductors.

 

[Agent]

Video by Kattnipp 11 of Amtrak #14 detouring yesterday at Lancaster.

 

[roadman3313]

Yes. On the train 14 now. Typically the detour takes the UP routing in the valley, not the BNSF routing that the San Joaquin takes. Using non-formal terminology the train follows the Metrolink route to Lancaster then heads over Techachapi to the old UP depot in Bakersfield. Crew change takes place there. Train continues up the UP towards the Stockton area where it moves to the ACE train route over the Altamont to Niles Junction. Then it takes the Capitol Corridor route up to Oakland which will be the first passenger stop after leaving LA. The train should wye-back once to change to the ACE train route near Stockton. Again not using technical routing terms, however hopefully that paints somewhat of a picture of the routing. 11 will also use this routing today. Back to normal tomorrow.

If I recall correctly:

Leave normal route at Burbank Jct.

SCAX Valley Sub. to Palmdale Jct.

UP Mojave Sub. to Bakersfield

UP Fresno Sub. to Hicks (Lathrop)

UP Oakland Sub. to Niles Jct.

Rejoin normal route

Without knowing most of the Sub's by heart that looks correct with one minor addition. At Niles Junction we take the Niles Sub. heading South/West back through Fremont/Centerville (No Stop) and make the right heading back north at North Newark/Carter to the Coast Sub. to rejoin with Niles just south of Coliseum at North Elmhurst. I believe Carter is the point we rejoin the regular route as the Starlight normally uses the Coast Sub. IME. Does the train cross Hicks and then do the Wye maneuver at Lathrop/French Camp? I presume the moves at Lathrop and Niles are due to the fact that the train can't turn "left" from the Fresno Sub. to the Oakland Sub. and it can't turn "right" from the Oakland Sub. to the Niles Sub? Again I'm not sure exactly on the Sub's or the Control Points/Mile Posts. Thanks for your insight.

 

[roadman3313]

It was actually a very good trip. I was also on board from LAX to OKJ - my first time over Tehachapi. I think the Fremont delay may have been for a track warrant. The dispatcher had 18 leading whereas it was 188 and so the warrant was invalid and had to be cancelled and re-issued. In terms of the police, there was one uniformed officer and at least one plain clothes. There were at least four additional officers at Los Angeles with one passenger in the 1432 car being questioned and having their bags searched as we boarded, and another passenger who was trying to force his way into the car past our attendant being questioned on the platform. We had a very good crew in terms of conductor out of Los Angeles, our car attendant, and CJ in the Parlor Car.

As for the routing, I was quite surprised (and pleased) that we took the UP north from Bakersfield. I had expected us to go on the BNSF tracks via Hanford and Fresno - presumably would have meant no need for UP route conductors.

Ah... thanks for that explanation of Fremont. That conductor has always been a very pleasant conductor in my experience. She was helpful in announcing some of the landmarks along the way as well as arranging for passengers to get a stretch break in Bakersfield. I was up in the 1430 car. I think we did luck out with a good crew for the trip. Glad you enjoyed the ride as well!

 

[railiner]

Too bad it's not next week--I have some free time and would have flown out to take the detour...

Arrrgh! Me too!

Missed it again.....

Sure wish I had had more notice of this....(sigh)....

But glad those who got the chance, had a great trip...

 

[railiner]

Wouldn't it be great if Amtrak would operate an "Autumn Express" type excursion train next fall on this route? I'm positive it would sell out both Saturday and Sunday in no time flat, if they did...

Besides the huge railfan base in California, there are a whole lot more, such a myself, that would gladly fly or take trains from all over, to ride it....

Are you listening, Amtrak?

Edit: And it would be neat if it were led by UP 6936...

 

[jis]

Even i’d fly out for that one, all the way a ross the country.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[hermit]

Wouldn't it be great if Amtrak would operate an "Autumn Express" type excursion train next fall on this route? I'm positive it would sell out both Saturday and Sunday in no time flat, if they did...

Besides the huge railfan base in California, there are a whole lot more, such a myself, that would gladly fly or take trains from all over, to ride it....

Are you listening, Amtrak?

Edit: And it would be neat if it were led by UP 6936...

Yes,please!

 

[chakk]

Too bad it's not next week--I have some free time and would have flown out to take the detour...

Arrrgh! Me too!

Missed it again.....

Sure wish I had had more notice of this....(sigh)....

But glad those who got the chance, had a great trip...

The detour was noted on trainorders.com about a week ago.

 

[TinCan782]

Too bad it's not next week--I have some free time and would have flown out to take the detour...

Arrrgh! Me too!

Missed it again.....

Sure wish I had had more notice of this....(sigh)....

But glad those who got the chance, had a great trip...

The detour was noted on trainorders.com about a week ago.

I first saw a "heads up" on Oct 18 on the Facebook group "Amtrak West"

 

[Steve4031]

I am definitely interested in this detour. And will fly out some day. Consequences be damned. Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[sechs]

As for the routing, I was quite surprised (and pleased) that we took the UP north from Bakersfield. I had expected us to go on the BNSF tracks via Hanford and Fresno - presumably would have meant no need for UP route conductors.

As I recall, they did this the first time Amtrak rerouted (rather than cancelled).

They miss all of the Bay Area passengers when they do this, since the detour starts in Sacramento. Even with the missed stops, that still ends up being a chunk of people.

Also, I think that BNSF has decided that the necessity of a detour is UP's problem, and they don't need the additional traffic. My feeling is that favors were pulled the first go round.

 

[chakk]

The southbound detour may have started in Sacramento, but the northbound detour made stops at all regular stations between Oakland and Sacramento.

 

[sechs]

Yes. On the train 14 now. Typically the detour takes the UP routing in the valley, not the BNSF routing that the San Joaquin takes. Using non-formal terminology the train follows the Metrolink route to Lancaster then heads over Techachapi to the old UP depot in Bakersfield. Crew change takes place there. Train continues up the UP towards the Stockton area where it moves to the ACE train route over the Altamont to Niles Junction. Then it takes the Capitol Corridor route up to Oakland which will be the first passenger stop after leaving LA. The train should wye-back once to change to the ACE train route near Stockton. Again not using technical routing terms, however hopefully that paints somewhat of a picture of the routing. 11 will also use this routing today. Back to normal tomorrow.

If I recall correctly:

Leave normal route at Burbank Jct.

SCAX Valley Sub. to Palmdale Jct.

UP Mojave Sub. to Bakersfield

UP Fresno Sub. to Hicks (Lathrop)

UP Oakland Sub. to Niles Jct.

Rejoin normal route

Without knowing most of the Sub's by heart that looks correct with one minor addition. At Niles Junction we take the Niles Sub. heading South/West back through Fremont/Centerville (No Stop) and make the right heading back north at North Newark/Carter to the Coast Sub. to rejoin with Niles just south of Coliseum at North Elmhurst. I believe Carter is the point we rejoin the regular route as the Starlight normally uses the Coast Sub. IME. Does the train cross Hicks and then do the Wye maneuver at Lathrop/French Camp? I presume the moves at Lathrop and Niles are due to the fact that the train can't turn "left" from the Fresno Sub. to the Oakland Sub. and it can't turn "right" from the Oakland Sub. to the Niles Sub? Again I'm not sure exactly on the Sub's or the Control Points/Mile Posts. Thanks for your insight.

The CS can go either way between North Elmhurst and Newark Junction -- either via the Niles Sub. or Coast Sub. Since there's no stops for it on either routing, it's up to dispatch to make the call. In my experience, the vast majority of the time, it goes via the Coast due to traffic.

You are correct. The maneuver at Hicks is to wye the train. From the south, you pass through Pacific, going left to West Lathrop, reverse to North Lathrop, then pull back forward through Pacific to access the Oakland Sub. towards the Bay Area.

 

[railiner]

Too bad it's not next week--I have some free time and would have flown out to take the detour...

Arrrgh! Me too! Missed it again.....

Sure wish I had had more notice of this....(sigh)....

But glad those who got the chance, had a great trip...

The detour was noted on trainorders.com about a week ago.

I first saw a "heads up" on Oct 18 on the Facebook group "Amtrak West"

Unfortunately, I dont follow those other forums...

I rely on AU for all things Amtrak....

 

[Thirdrail7]

Wouldn't it be great if Amtrak would operate an "Autumn Express" type excursion train next fall on this route? I'm positive it would sell out both Saturday and Sunday in no time flat, if they did...

Besides the huge railfan base in California, there are a whole lot more, such a myself, that would gladly fly or take trains from all over, to ride it....

Are you listening, Amtrak?

Edit: And it would be neat if it were led by UP 6936...

Yes,please!

Is there a surplus Amtrak (not state supported) fleet available in the area for this to be feasible?

 

[Train2104]

For those interested, I manually updated the history reports for the two trains affected, showing the detour route.

https://asm.transitdocs.com/trainDetail.html?train=14&year=2017&month=10&day=26

https://asm.transitdocs.com/trainDetail.html?train=11&year=2017&month=10&day=25

(during detours the feed recording stops, any re-addition of data needs to be done manually)