An incident occurring in one jurisdiction does not normally mean that it isn't also within the purview of another. Overlaps are very common, determining who is the lead is often predetermined by agreement between agencies but not always. The laws of a particular state are important, because the ability of any Federal police to get involved with things that are state rather than Federal statutes is up to the states. The reports of the medical examiners will be extremely important, depending on their findings, there might not be any criminality.
CZ passenger injured near Truckee CA, unknown circumstances
- Thread starter Karl1459
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
Seaboard92
Engineer
I might add as someone who has done some journalistic work in the past. Most police agencies will not comment on an open investigation because it could skew the results of the investigation.
On second note Amtrak might not want the general public to know how easy it is to open vestibule doors. I could see where that could be an issue.
On second note Amtrak might not want the general public to know how easy it is to open vestibule doors. I could see where that could be an issue.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Having read several other stories of Amtrak passengers being found dead or unresponsive on the side of the tracks it would seem that foul play is rarely suspected, or at least rarely investigated.
TiBike
OBS Chief
Amtrak cops have primary jurisdiction in this case. It's not a matter of federal intervention. They have the same kind of responsibility for their trains and property in California as, say, BART cops would have.
Doesn't really matter whether their authority comes from the State of California or the federal government. The City of Monterey, for example, splits jurisdiction with Navy cops (Naval Postgraduate School) and Army cops (Presidio of Monterey). They've figured out who does what where. Other federal agencies sometimes get into the act – NCIS has been known to do drug investigations and arrests in Monterey proper when someone sells something to a service member.
But on a routine basis, police agencies work it out. No one wants to do someone else's work
.
Doesn't really matter whether their authority comes from the State of California or the federal government. The City of Monterey, for example, splits jurisdiction with Navy cops (Naval Postgraduate School) and Army cops (Presidio of Monterey). They've figured out who does what where. Other federal agencies sometimes get into the act – NCIS has been known to do drug investigations and arrests in Monterey proper when someone sells something to a service member.
But on a routine basis, police agencies work it out. No one wants to do someone else's work
.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2016
- Messages
- 845
When this is thoroughly investigated, I think this will be revealed as a homophobic attack bordering on attempted murder. Happens too often when one person is "out" as gay, or makes an benign overture toward someone insecure about his own place on the Kinsey scale.
In any case, it looks like a lot of passengers on that train are going to be interviewed and exactly where he was found in relation to the track should lead to the answer of this so far mystery.
Last edited by a moderator:
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
&
$100 worth of internet bucks says there will be no singularly conclusive resolution to this particular event. If you're inclined to disagree I only ask that you read up on the fate of other Amtrak passengers found by the side of the tracks and ask yourself how many of those events were resolved to your genuine satisfaction.
If I understand correctly there are no mechanisms for alerting the crew when a superliner car door is open while the train is in motion. I suspect the engineer and fireman are focusing on the track ahead for the most part. So it would be difficult for train crews to catch something amiss.
Iirc a few of these incidents involved passengers who became confused, opened the door to the outside and stepped off the train. The bodies were found and investigation closed.&$100 worth of internet bucks says there will be no singularly conclusive resolution to this particular event. If you're inclined to disagree I only ask that you read up on the fate of other Amtrak passengers found by the side of the tracks and ask yourself how many of those events were resolved to your genuine satisfaction.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
In the majority of cases I tried to follow there was no specific evidence to corroborate confusion/delusion severe enough to explain voluntarily walking/jumping off a moving train. Nor was there any rational explanation for how a supposedly confused/deluded person managed to close the door behind them as they walked/jumped to their death. If they left the door open then why didn't anyone alert the staff? Why didn't the staff report anything to their superiors? These cases are statistically rare, which is good, but they also seem to fall into a black hole of bureaucratic indifference and low effort reasoning.Iirc a few of these incidents involved passengers who became confused, opened the door to the outside and stepped off the train. The bodies were found and investigation closed.&$100 worth of internet bucks says there will be no singularly conclusive resolution to this particular event. If you're inclined to disagree I only ask that you read up on the fate of other Amtrak passengers found by the side of the tracks and ask yourself how many of those events were resolved to your genuine satisfaction.
Last edited by a moderator:
KmH
Engineer
Fireman? It was my understanding normally the engineer is the only person in the cab of Amtrak LD trains.
Seaboard92
Engineer
No the superliners don't have a door indicator light and likely never will. The crew depending on the location might also not see someone with an open door from the cab. It's actually next to impossible to tell without being in a curve.
Now I believe Amfleet Is might have a door indicator light. And before anyone says they need to lock the doors. That isn't a feasible option in case of a derailment. The best thing that can be done is to keep both latches on the door shut. Which is standard policy.
Now I believe Amfleet Is might have a door indicator light. And before anyone says they need to lock the doors. That isn't a feasible option in case of a derailment. The best thing that can be done is to keep both latches on the door shut. Which is standard policy.
TiBike
OBS Chief
More info from the Truckee PD's Facebook page is here:
https://www.facebook.com/truckeepolice/posts/796320660566227
It's worth reading, but the key facts according to the post are that Salazar was found by the tracks at "the far east end of Truckee" (i.e. before it arrived at the station) and "the incident originated and appeared to be entirely contained on the Amtrak train". According to the post, "Aaron never disembarked in Truckee, as he never made it to the Truckee station, and there is no information to suggest Aaron had any connection to Truckee or interactions with anyone from Truckee".
The investigation was turned over to Amtrak "after our preliminary response" and the Truckee PD is "not actively involved in the investigation". The post opens by saying:
"It is the policy and best practice of most public safety organizations to not comment on another agency’s investigation, particularly if that investigation is active. However, since much of the information that is circulating on social media and in some news stories is inaccurate, speculative, or simply false, the Truckee Police Department would like to clarify a few things".
It closes with:
"The Truckee Police Department has no control over the release of substantive information in this incident, since another agency is handling the investigation. We do ask, out of respect for Aaron, his family, and for the investigative process that speculation, guessing, or rumors not be the basis for drawing conclusions", and refers further questions to Amtrak's police.
The timing is interesting. The post reiterates what the log stated, that the Truckee PD responded at about 11:30am, but then says "it was almost immediately discovered that Aaron was a ticketed passenger on the west bound Amtrak train that had passed through Truckee earlier that morning". 5(13) left Colfax on time at 11:48, and then was approx. 40 minutes early (give or take) the rest of the way to Emeryville.
It doesn't seem as if Amtrak PD treated it as a crime scene.
https://www.facebook.com/truckeepolice/posts/796320660566227
It's worth reading, but the key facts according to the post are that Salazar was found by the tracks at "the far east end of Truckee" (i.e. before it arrived at the station) and "the incident originated and appeared to be entirely contained on the Amtrak train". According to the post, "Aaron never disembarked in Truckee, as he never made it to the Truckee station, and there is no information to suggest Aaron had any connection to Truckee or interactions with anyone from Truckee".
The investigation was turned over to Amtrak "after our preliminary response" and the Truckee PD is "not actively involved in the investigation". The post opens by saying:
"It is the policy and best practice of most public safety organizations to not comment on another agency’s investigation, particularly if that investigation is active. However, since much of the information that is circulating on social media and in some news stories is inaccurate, speculative, or simply false, the Truckee Police Department would like to clarify a few things".
It closes with:
"The Truckee Police Department has no control over the release of substantive information in this incident, since another agency is handling the investigation. We do ask, out of respect for Aaron, his family, and for the investigative process that speculation, guessing, or rumors not be the basis for drawing conclusions", and refers further questions to Amtrak's police.
The timing is interesting. The post reiterates what the log stated, that the Truckee PD responded at about 11:30am, but then says "it was almost immediately discovered that Aaron was a ticketed passenger on the west bound Amtrak train that had passed through Truckee earlier that morning". 5(13) left Colfax on time at 11:48, and then was approx. 40 minutes early (give or take) the rest of the way to Emeryville.
It doesn't seem as if Amtrak PD treated it as a crime scene.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
reading the statements by the family on that Facebook page makes me sick. Amtrak police is telling the family it was a suicide attempt?
We (me included) are whining about boxed meals, meanwhile Passengers are being raped and beaten on Amtrak trains and Amtrak always says it's not their fault.
We (me included) are whining about boxed meals, meanwhile Passengers are being raped and beaten on Amtrak trains and Amtrak always says it's not their fault.
The news story I read mentioned burn marks on the legs. How do you get that jumping off a moving train?
KmH
Engineer
One of the linked to news articles noted Aaron's family said the burns (severe) are on the insides of his thighs.
From what I have read I think he was assaulted on the train by his new "friend", rendered unconscious, and then thrown off the train by his assailant.
Did the 5 (13) have a coach/bag car in the consist?
If so the baggage area would be a place Aaron could have been assaulted.
From what I have read I think he was assaulted on the train by his new "friend", rendered unconscious, and then thrown off the train by his assailant.
Did the 5 (13) have a coach/bag car in the consist?
If so the baggage area would be a place Aaron could have been assaulted.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
I don't think the zephyr typically operates with a coach / baggage.
The friend adds an interesting twist, but I still fail to make the direct connection to the friend being the attacker. That's certainly a possibility, but the friend could have also reported the guy missing and be ignored by Amtrak personell, and that would be another reason everything is so hush hush. This is a very troubling case, and it looks like it's all happened before, on the same route years ago.(Robin Putnmam case).
The friend adds an interesting twist, but I still fail to make the direct connection to the friend being the attacker. That's certainly a possibility, but the friend could have also reported the guy missing and be ignored by Amtrak personell, and that would be another reason everything is so hush hush. This is a very troubling case, and it looks like it's all happened before, on the same route years ago.(Robin Putnmam case).
Last edited by a moderator:
Just as a point of clarification, as the question has come up: Even if the Zephyr isn't scheduled to use a coach/baggage car, such a car can often be found in a train's consist to provide the needed coach capacity, either as an added car or as a substitute for a regular coach if one of the latter is not available.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
It's also normal for the door to the coach portion of a lower level car to be closed. That blocks off a lot of noise and vision for the few coach passengers riding in that section.
Of course we can't rule out that this happened in an employee only area of the train.
Of course we can't rule out that this happened in an employee only area of the train.
TiBike
OBS Chief
The only information about the "burns" on his legs comes from the family. The family's initial statement described it as "a mysterious rash or burn". It later became "severe burns". Friction burns from hanging onto something? Something completely unrelated to the incident? Something that's nothing but has grown in the telling?
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
Oregon members of congress are getting involved. Guess they see the potential of "criminal intent" that Amtrak PD seems to be incapable of thinking of.
https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2018/05/25/20099100/oregon-members-of-congress-demand-investigation-into-attack-of-gay-psu-student
https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2018/05/25/20099100/oregon-members-of-congress-demand-investigation-into-attack-of-gay-psu-student
KmH
Engineer
If you go to AU member Agent's YouTube channel (he is A. train there) you will see the CZ often has a coach/bag in it's consist.
Agent shoots video of the CZ almost daily.
Whatever happened, in the news Amtrak PD is looking less than competent.
Last edited by a moderator:
cpotisch
Engineer
Great channel, BTW. Here's the link to all his CZ catches. Almost all of them have a coach baggage.
Last edited by a moderator:
