Date meals became included with Amtrak sleeping car fares?

[Amtrak709]

Although I proudly have just over 300,000 rail passenger miles since 1966 and have a log of all those trips, I am having trouble pegging the date that meals became included with Amtrak sleeping car fares. My logs and paper "stuff" saved from my trips are a wealth of personal trip and event remembrances--but that date (exact or approximate) escapes my memory. I am curious if any of those many knowledgeable members on the forum can help. I realize that with all the serious issues occurring these days with Amtrak services, etc., this is just a frivolous curiosity in which I have an interest. Thanks!

 

[zephyr17]

My recollection is it was very roughly 1985 or 6. I remember quite clearly that the accommodation charge went up almost precisely by the price of the number of meals for two for the stretch ridden. I also seem to recall that it was not in effect for the big trip my ex-wife and I took to get out of town for the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Olympics.

 

[Dakota 400]

My recollection is it was very roughly 1985 or 6

What an interesting question! I think you may be correct. I know when I first rode on an Amtrak trip during the Carter Administration, sleeping car passengers paid for their meals in the dining car. It was awhile after that when I rode Amtrak again (other than the Metroliner, but, that was Coach) and I don't remember whether I paid for meals or whether they were included. I know when I did begin riding Amtrak more frequently, the meals were included and the meals, service, and ambiance were of a very good standard.

 

[MARC Rider]

I rode the Crescent in 1990 in a Slumbercoach, and I had to pay for my dining car meals. Not sure whether regular sleeping car passengers had meals included. My first trip in a sleeper was in a roomette on the Capitol Limited in 1997, and by that point, meals were included in the fare.

 

[zephyr17]

I rode the Crescent in 1990 in a Slumbercoach, and I had to pay for my dining car meals. Not sure whether regular sleeping car passengers had meals included. My first trip in a sleeper was in a roomette on the Capitol Limited in 1997, and by that point, meals were included in the fare.

Slumbercoach never had meals included and the free meals for full sleeper passengers was already in effect well before 1990. I was still living in California when it happened and I moved out of California in 1990.

My best guess is about 1986.

In my recollection, the lower limit is 1984 because I recall having to pay for meals on the get outta town for the Olympics trip and 1990 because it had happened prior to moving out of California. So 1985-1989. It was closer to 1985, though.

 

[JP1822]

Slumbercoach came with a cheaper "sleeper" option where meals were not included. Paid for separately as part of a "cheaper" option of choice overall.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Slumbercoach came with a cheaper "sleeper" option where meals were not included. Paid for separately as part of a "cheaper" option of choice overall.

As I recall it was around 85 or 86 as Zephyr17 says.

But Slumbercoach was still the Best Deal for Comfortable Rail Travel this side of Sections on the Canadian in the Winter!( with Great Meals included in the Discounted Fare)

My favorite Slumbercoach Rides were on the. Crescent between Atlanta and Washington!

Wonderful Meals in the Diner for Reasonable Prices and Cheap Private Sleeping Quarters!

 

[Willbridge]

One of the reasons for introducing the inclusive meals was so that travel agents could get commissions on the additional ticket prices and air-oriented agents expected it (source: Art Lloyd. Amtrak West P.R.).

 

[Gary Behling]

Although I proudly have just over 300,000 rail passenger miles since 1966 and have a log of all those trips, I am having trouble pegging the date that meals became included with Amtrak sleeping car fares. My logs and paper "stuff" saved from my trips are a wealth of personal trip and event remembrances--but that date (exact or approximate) escapes my memory. I am curious if any of those many knowledgeable members on the forum can help. I realize that with all the serious issues occurring these days with Amtrak services, etc., this is just a frivolous curiosity in which I have an interest. Thanks!

They were in 1979 when I did my 1st Chicago to LA trip

 

[mlanoue]

I was just looking through the old timetables on timetables.org, thinking there might be something in there to clarify it. Not positive, but the October 1986 timetable makes no mention of meals in their ad for First Class Service, but the April 1987 one lists "Tasty Meals" as one of the "very special benefits" of traveling First Class. So, yes, it was probably sometime later in 1986 or early '87.

I really like those old timetables. It seems like they were trying hard to get people to think of reasons to take a train trip.

 

[Steve4031]

I’m thinking 86/87 too.

I think that’s around the time they started having the meal tickets with the check boxes on them.

 

[jis]

The 85-86 timeframe matches my recollection too. I made several trips cross country in the 81-82 timeframe and meals were not included at that time.

 

[Siegmund]

Just one more confirmation of the same general timeframe: they were not included when I rode in May 1986, were in June 1988 (and the change was accompanied by a sizable increase in ticket price.)

 

[JP1822]

As I recall it was around 85 or 86 as Zephyr17 says.

But Slumbercoach was still the Best Deal for Comfortable Rail Travel this side of Sections on the Canadian in the Winter!( with Great Meals included in the Discounted Fare)

My favorite Slumbercoach Rides were on the. Crescent between Atlanta and Washington!

Wonderful Meals in the Diner for Reasonable Prices and Cheap Private Sleeping Quarters!

In a perfect world - for the LD trains you'd have regular coach class, then the some sort of service between coach and sleeper. Three classes of service on the LD trains. Slumbercoach would fit that bill well now. Perhaps it faded out of favor by the 1990s (or faded out as the slumbercoach passenger cars were aged out and retired!), but I think it would be a BIG hit now days. Europe has the re-surgence of sleeper trains once again and offer various service levels. Amtrak does not. The Amtrak sleeper cars right now are priced WAY too high - again largely due to the supply/demand imbalance going on right now as a result of parking and not maintaining various passenger cars during COVID. The Slumbercoach was always a cheaper option - providing a compact yet still some sort of bed option. Even the airlines have made strides to create the first class "slumber" seat (flat) arrangement - sleeper pods! If they can do it on airplanes, it could done on passenger trains. Amtrak management is just not there right now. Amtrak is still trying to hire back a labor force and add back capacity too. This means servicing and having folks work on restoring Amtrak passenger cars back to service on corridor and LD trains. But I think a "slumbercoach option for the 21st century" is over due!

 

[Amtrak709]

Although I proudly have just over 300,000 rail passenger miles since 1966 and have a log of all those trips, I am having trouble pegging the date that meals became included with Amtrak sleeping car fares. My logs and paper "stuff" saved from my trips are a wealth of personal trip and event remembrances--but that date (exact or approximate) escapes my memory. I am curious if any of those many knowledgeable members on the forum can help. I realize that with all the serious issues occurring these days with Amtrak services, etc., this is just a frivolous curiosity in which I have an interest. Thanks!

Thank all of you who responded to my post. With all the "tons" of paper I have accumulated over 300,000 miles and 55 years, I could not quite remember that date. I think I agree with the consensus that is was somewhere 1986-1988. Do any of you remember the days when you wrote your own meal order on a dining car check--I think it was a carbonized two-part form: one part for the chef, one part for the waiter??

 

[PaTrainFan]

Thank all of you who responded to my post. With all the "tons" of paper I have accumulated over 300,000 miles and 55 years, I could not quite remember that date. I think I agree with the consensus that is was somewhere 1986-1988. Do any of you remember the days when you wrote your own meal order on a dining car check--I think it was a carbonized two-part form: one part for the chef, one part for the waiter??

I remember that practice when Iw as a kid, even before carbon copies. I believe I vaguely remember that as a young adult but can't place the circumstance. Not sure when that ended.

 

[Willbridge]

I remember that practice when Iw as a kid, even before carbon copies. I believe I vaguely remember that as a young adult but can't place the circumstance. Not sure when that ended.

I know it was the practice on the UP in 1966. I took a date to dinner on UP458 (their SEA>PDX pool train) and she started filling out the check without any questions. I commented on her familiarity with the procedure, and it turned out that her father was a Division Superintendent.

I think it was phased out as Amtrak assumed control of dining cars. In the earliest days, crews just carried on as they had been doing prior to May 1, 1971. I rode from NYG to PDX in September 1971 and don't recall any surprise change in the traditional written orders. I always ordered French Toast for breakfast to see which style would be served.

"Waiters are instructed to neither take nor serve orders given orally."
-- UPRR on the Domeliner City of Portland in 1955.

 

[Manny T]

I absolutely remember the time (too many decades ago!) when the customer wrote down the order themselves and handed it to the waiter, who checked it over, made comments, asked questions, corrected whatever, and then went off with it. If I'm not mistaken, one sees Cary Grant do this in the dining car scene in North by Northwest (1959). As an aside, this was (and may still be) the way it's done in many private clubs, university clubs and so forth.

 

[Dakota 400]

I most certainly do remember when we wrote our on order on a check and I also remember in that same era when there was a Dining Car Steward supervising the car. When one was done with their meal, this gentleman would come to your table and you paid the bill to him. If cash was needed in return, he would pull out a wad of bills to make your change.

 

[Steve4031]

I did it in 1977 on my first solo overnight trip on The Broadway Limited. I was 10 years old. I remember this because my 5th grade teacher was always complaining about my hand writing. I was worried enough about this that I was extra careful and was prepared to tell the waiter that we went over a switch while I was writing if he complained about my hand writing.

 

[DCAKen]

I absolutely remember the time (too many decades ago!) when the customer wrote down the order themselves and handed it to the waiter, who checked it over, made comments, asked questions, corrected whatever, and then went off with it. If I'm not mistaken, one sees Cary Grant do this in the dining car scene in North by Northwest (1959). As an aside, this was (and may still be) the way it's done in many private clubs, university clubs and so forth.

Gene Wilder wrote down his dinner order in Silver Streak (1976) and Jill Clayburgh complimented him on his penmanship.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I remember my first time filling out my meal order in the Diner when I was 7!, It was on the SP Sunset Ltd., and since I was traveling by myself, the Waiter helped me since I'd never seen it done before.

The Meal and Desert ( I drank Milk!)was $2.75 Cents including a 50 Cent Tip, which was a lot of money in the Early 50s!

I too remember the scene in the Diner on the 20th Century Ltd. in "North by Northwest" when Cary Grant orders a Gibson, and the Brook Trout, on the recommendation of Eva Marie Saint.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I absolutely remember the time (too many decades ago!) when the customer wrote down the order themselves and handed it to the waiter, who checked it over, made comments, asked questions, corrected whatever, and then went off with it. If I'm not mistaken, one sees Cary Grant do this in the dining car scene in North by Northwest (1959). As an aside, this was (and may still be) the way it's done in many private clubs, university clubs and so forth.

I penciled out a few meal tickets during early Amtrak days and that was never the easiest thing to do if the tracks were anything less than glass smooth.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I pulled some of my pre-Amtrak dining car menus and printed on the bottom is a notice waiters/stewards are prohibited from taking oral orders.

 

[zephyr17]

I seem to recall that even initially after the meals became mandatorily prepaid (they were not and are not "complimentary") you still checked the boxes yourself. For a number of years after the waitstaff started filling it out, they'd specifically instruct you not to check the boxes yourself.