Deadly accident in India 6/2/23

[jis]

Here is a very good explanation of the current understanding of what happened.

 

[west point]

For clarification what are the definitions of up and down track?

 

[jis]

For clarification what are the definitions of up and down track?

On this route Up is Southbound and Down is Northbound.

Historically on BNR (Bengal Nagpur Railway), which was the pre-independence company that ran this line, Down was towards headquarters which was at Garden Reach in Calcutta, and Up was away from it.

Today Bahanaga Bazar falls under the South Eastern Railway Zone, which is still headquartered at Garden Reach, Kolkata, and still uses the same Up/Down designation.

Incidentally, a hundred years back this area used to be within the beat of my Grandfather who worked for BNR. Soon afterwards he took a transfer to new construction division which was then building the Raipur - Vizianagram line through tribal territory. My Dad with his siblings spent their early childhood in the middle of nowhere at a place called Titlagarh where the new line was being built.

 

[jis]

More on the status of Railway Staff. The Guard of Yaswantpur Howrah Express who was in the last carriage of the train, one of the two that was hit by the derailing Coromandel Express and derailed and capsized as a result, is now out of danger, recovering at AIIMS Bhubaneshwar. The two Engineers of Coromandel are at the same Hospital doing much better.

 

[jis]

Freight train movement has resumed through Bahanaga Bazar around 11:10pm IST (June 4, '23):



The Railway Minister is present at the sight at Bahanaga Bazar as the train passes by.

The train is traveling in the Down direction (Northwards), on tracks that were not obliterated, but just damaged. The main line track in both direction apparently have been relaid anew after removing the existing track.

 

[cirdan]

There is at least one newspaper suggesting that there was a routing error sending the train to the loop where the freight was standing. This of course also could have been caused by a failure of a switch (point). But we will have to wait to see.

Don't they have interlocking to prevent that? So if a switch fails or is for any other reason in a different position that it should be, you cannot set a train path over it and the signal should be unable to display any aspect other than danger.

So either they did not have such a mechanism, or maybe both the switch motor and the detector failed at the same time, which would be some extremely bad luck.

A signal failure seems like a more likely explanation to me, based on the information we have seen so far.

 

[jis]

Don't they have interlocking to prevent that? So if a switch fails or is for any other reason in a different position that it should be, you cannot set a train path over it and the signal should be unable to display any aspect other than danger.

So either they did not have such a mechanism, or maybe both the switch motor and the detector failed at the same time, which would be some extremely bad luck.

A signal failure seems like a more likely explanation to me, based on the information we have seen so far.

Currently known fact is that the switch setting was inconsistent with the signal indication. The other known fact is signals do not fail to Clear. Beyond that I don't know enough to speculate worth a hill of beans and would rather wait for the investigation report as to how it came to be.

 

[west point]

Questions.
1. What functions are assigned to the rear of train guards?
2. What and where on track are switch positions given to the interlocking machines? Different depending on class of track?
3. Noticed that freight train cars in video seemed to have all roller bearings. Has IR retired all friction bearings may exception of heritage equipment.?
4. Does IR use hot box detectors?
5. If switch was still aligned for freight in siding what detetion is there for trains in siding?

 

[George Harris]

A couple of comments and a couple of questions, probably more later.
1. Considering the speed of collision and scattering of the coaches, their structural integrity looks good. The condition of the scattered cars contrasts sharply with that of the coaches involved in the Eschede Germany derailment where several (some?) coaches essentially unzipped along weld lines between sides and roof and floor. While some of these cars have serious bends and crumples, I do not see in the pictures any that have come apart. Would be interesting to see the strength requirements in Indian coach designs.
2. From the pictures I have seen, the spacing between tracks appears quite generous, considering the track gauge and as I understand use of nominally UIC vehicle dimensions.
Q1. Looking at the picture of the end of the freight locomotive, it appears that AAR or similar standard couplers are now being used, yet buffers are still there. Are Brit/Euro hook and screw couplings still in use in part or are they all gone? If coupling conversion is complete, I would think the buffers would serve no purpose.
Q2. What is the Indian standard point locking, again, AAR style or similar, or one of the Euro styles?
AAR style has separate drive, detector, and lock rods, but in the case of powered switches, all these functions occur within the housing containing the switch motor. The drive rod, as its name implies moves the switch. The others are mounted separately to the point rails and just follow along. All rod positions must be in agreement before a clear signal is possible. (In hand throw switches in signaled territory, there may be either a detector or an electric lock. If an electric lock, the switch cannot be moved without the lock being unlocked, usually by the dispatcher or possibly locally once permission is given. When unlocked, adjacent signals drop accordingly. If a detector only, if the switch is thrown, it will drop the adjacent signals.
Also, powered or hand throw, in AAR switches the locking is in the switch machine or hand throw lever. In Germany, and possibly other countries in Europe, but the German way I know, there is what they call a claw lock or clamp lock that physically locks the point rail to the stock rail, achieving this by the drive rod having a length of travel well in excess of the required point rail movement. This device, while being more certain than the American way, is a relatively finicky high maintenance device, and therefore less tolerant of maladjustments.

 

[user 32479]

Is there a possibility th

According to travelers on board the 12864 Yaswantpur - Howrah Superfast, only the last four cars of that train were affected. They detached those and the rest of the train was released to proceed to Howrah at around 1am IST of 3 June, '23. So most of the injuries and deaths were on 12841.

According to a post from DRM Kharagpur Most of the damage was to 12841 Coromandel. 10 cars capsized, and only rear two cars of the 22 car train remained on rails. 10 cars derailed but remained upright. The locomotive remained upright but on top of a freight wagon as seen in a photo.

On 12864 rearmost two cars derailed and capsized. The next car was damaged but on rail, and the rest of the train was undamaged, and was released to proceed to destination after inspection.

at this happened due to sabotage?

 

[jis]

Questions.
1. What functions are assigned to the rear of train guards?

More or less the same as the Conductor in the US. He is in charge of the train.

2. What and where on track are switch positions given to the interlocking machines? Different depending on class of track?

I don't understand the question.

3. Noticed that freight train cars in video seemed to have all roller bearings. Has IR retired all friction bearings may exception of heritage equipment.?

Everything is roller bearing. On the BG network I don't think there is any heritage equipment left.

4. Does IR use hot box detectors?

Yes.

5. If switch was still aligned for freight in siding what detetion is there for trains in siding?

That station is fully track circuited and supposedly has electronic interlocking. Of course something failed in the detection/interlocking chain.

As a matter of fact the event sequence was first noticed in the electronic system log showing that the segment between the switch and the train was occupied, which it should not have been. I posted about this up thread, the one where I said I was reading a thread in Bengali. People are generally fluent in three or four languages in India.

This area falls under the South Eastern Railway HQ-ed in Kolkata, so a lot of internal communication happens in Bengali, in addition to Hindi and English.

A couple of comments and a couple of questions, probably more later.
1. Considering the speed of collision and scattering of the coaches, their structural integrity looks good. The condition of the scattered cars contrasts sharply with that of the coaches involved in the Eschede Germany derailment where several (some?) coaches essentially unzipped along weld lines between sides and roof and floor. While some of these cars have serious bends and crumples, I do not see in the pictures any that have come apart. Would be interesting to see the strength requirements in Indian coach designs.

For all practical purposes these are 21st Century Alstom cars. LHB is a subsidiary of Alstom. These cars are built in India under license including rights to create derivatives, in India in various coach manufacturing facilities. They essentially have the same specification as something like the Viaggio Comforts.

2. From the pictures I have seen, the spacing between tracks appears quite generous, considering the track gauge and as I understand use of nominally UIC vehicle dimensions.
Q1. Looking at the picture of the end of the freight locomotive, it appears that AAR or similar standard couplers are now being used, yet buffers are still there. Are Brit/Euro hook and screw couplings still in use in part or are they all gone? If coupling conversion is complete, I would think the buffers would serve no purpose.

The LHB cars are all AAR style CBC equipped, and air braked. The previous generation Schlieren cars are chain link coupler and vacuum braked. There are thousands of them still around. So all locomotives are equipped with the ability to handle both. The couplers they have are transition couplers which in the normal mode are CBC, but they have a hook gizmo than can be swung around and locked into place in the CBC coupler. Hence they also have buffers.

Q2. What is the Indian standard point locking, again, AAR style or similar, or one of the Euro styles?

I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. This station has standard IR Electric Point Machines. The information may be available in this PDF document published by IR's RDSO (Research, Design and Standards Organization):

IR Standard Electric Point Machine

For what it is worth, this is what an Electric Point Machine looks like in India:

 

[jis]

Is there a possibility th

at this happened due to sabotage?

Sabotage is always a possibility in some areas of India with random insurgent groups running around in various areas. This area is not know to be such an area. But the Accident Inquiry Commission usually keeps their mind open about such a possibility. At present it is not known whether sabotage was involved, but generally it is not believed so. Otherwise it would have been all over the news media.

 

[user 32479]

A horrific accident involving three trains happened at around 7pm IST of June 2, 23 killing over 120people and injuring possibly over 800. Most of the casualties appear to be travelers in one of the trains involved.

The location was at Bahanaga Bazar station between Balasore and Bhadrak on the East Coast Railway on the main Kolkata Chennai route. The trains involved were, a freight train, the 12841 Shalimar (Kolkata) Chennai Central Coromandel Express and the 12864 Yeswantpur (Bengaluru) - Howrah (Kolkata) Superfast Express. There is much confusion about the exact sequence of events and exactly what happened. One thing is clear that the Coromandel Express derailed fouling the parallel track on which the Howrah Express came by from the opposite direction and hit the derailed cars that were fouling.

Here is a BBC article on it ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65793257
I have seen a photo which shows a WAP-7 Class electric loco sans its wheels sitting on top of a freight wagon. I have no idea which train that one came from. But from the photos I have seen, my speculation is that the Coromandel Express rear ended a stationary freight train derailing most of its cars, and spilling some on the adjacent track. Soon after that the Howrah Express came by and plowed into those cars and derailed 3 or 4 of its cars. All speculation mind you.

link to the photo here: World News

 

[user 32479]

A horrific accident involving three trains happened at around 7pm IST of June 2, 23 killing over 120people and injuring possibly over 800. Most of the casualties appear to be travelers in one of the trains involved.

The location was at Bahanaga Bazar station between Balasore and Bhadrak on the East Coast Railway on the main Kolkata Chennai route. The trains involved were, a freight train, the 12841 Shalimar (Kolkata) Chennai Central Coromandel Express and the 12864 Yeswantpur (Bengaluru) - Howrah (Kolkata) Superfast Express. There is much confusion about the exact sequence of events and exactly what happened. One thing is clear that the Coromandel Express derailed fouling the parallel track on which the Howrah Express came by from the opposite direction and hit the derailed cars that were fouling.

Here is a BBC article on it ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65793257
I have seen a photo which shows a WAP-7 Class electric loco sans its wheels sitting on top of a freight wagon. I have no idea which train that one came from. But from the photos I have seen, my speculation is that the Coromandel Express rear ended a stationary freight train derailing most of its cars, and spilling some on the adjacent track. Soon after that the Howrah Express came by and plowed into those cars and derailed 3 or 4 of its cars. All speculation mind you.

Prime Minister Modi visits the scene

The accident occurred at a time when Prime Minister Narendra Modi is focussing on the modernization of the British colonial-era railroad network in India, which has become the world's most populous country with 1.42 billion. Despite government efforts to improve rail safety, several hundred accidents occur every year on India's railways, the largest train network under one management in the world.

Modi flew to the crash site and spent half an hour examining the relief effort and talking to rescue officials. He was seen giving instructions on the phone to officials in New Delhi.

He later visited a hospital where he walked around inquiring from doctors about the treatment being given to the injured, and spoke to some of them, moving from bed to bed in a ward.

Modi told reporters that it was a sad moment and he was feeling the pain of those who have suffered in the accident. He said the government would do its utmost to help them and strictly punish those found responsible.

Modi on Saturday was supposed to inaugurate a high-speed train connecting Goa and Mumbai that is equipped with a collision avoidance system. The event was canceled after Friday's accident. The trains that derailed did not have that system.



Source:

 

[user 32479]

Sabotage is always a possibility in some areas of India with random insurgent groups running around in various areas. This area is not know to be such an area. But the Accident Inquiry Commission usually keeps their mind open about such a possibility. At present it is not known whether sabotage was involved, but generally it is not believed so. Otherwise it would have been all over the news media.

A government official said Sunday that a technical signaling failure might have led to the crash, but on Monday, investigators said they were likely to look at the possibility that someone could have deliberately tampered with the automatic signaling system — generally considered safe and effective — to cause the disaster.


Source: India train crash investigators to look at possibility of sabotage after wreck in Odisha kills hundreds

 

[west point]

IR Standard Electric Point Machine

For what it is worth, this is what an Electric Point Machine looks like in India:

View attachment 32723

What is the function of the box inside of rails about 10 cross ties beyond the switch machine? Seems to be half way to end of the movable portion of the switch rails? If so possible another switch machine? Noticed pads for sliding of movable rails go beyond that box

 

[jis]

What is the function of the box inside of rails about 10 cross ties beyond the switch machine? Seems to be half way to end of the movable portion of the switch rails? If so possible another switch machine? Noticed pads for sliding of movable rails go beyond that box

I don’t know anything more than what you can learn from the document I provided.

 

[jis]

Here is an example of the nonsensical conspiracy theories that some start circulating. Good to see that India Today has chased this one down and the Railway Officers have not been reluctant to provide information to disprove the theory quickly.

https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-chec...on-officer-mohammed-sharif-2389078-2023-06-05

 

[BlackDiamond]

According to a post on the RailUK forum the theory is that this was due to a signal maintainer error that caused a clear signal to be displayed even though the points were set for the loop line where the freight train was parked. However this was based on a Facebook post so we have no idea as to whether this is indeed true.

 

[jis]

View attachment 32732
link to the photo here: World News

Incidentally the two derailed and capsized cars of the Howrah Express were located on the upper side of the right of way next to the last few cars of Coromandel Express in that photo/diagram quoted above.

According to a post on the RailUK forum the theory is that this was due to a signal maintainer error that caused a clear signal to be displayed even though the points were set for the loop line where the freight train was parked. However this was based on a Facebook post so we have no idea as to whether this is indeed true.

That would beg the question as to why was the switch set towards the loop, when the dispatch system log shows that the route was set to main and cleared? For this reason I am dubious about that simple explanation. Of course since the ASM in charge at the time is cooperating fully with the investigation we will know what he thought was set up based on his interaction with the system. The log that we have seen appears to say that the routes were set correctly as far as the dispatch system knew.

But as usual, let us wait for the accident investigation report, which should be out within a month.

 

[jis]

Article in The Economist about safety on Indian Railways in the context of this accident....

https://www.economist.com/asia/2023...ian-railways-have-an-impressive-safety-record
This article actually provides actual numbers as opposed to BBC and NY Times who declare that Indian railways has a bad safety record as a matter of revealed truth as has been the case in the colonies forever

 

[Bob Dylan]

Article in The Economist about safety on Indian Railways in the context of this accident....

https://www.economist.com/asia/2023...ian-railways-have-an-impressive-safety-record
This article actually provides actual numbers as opposed to BBC and NY Times who declare that Indian railways has a bad safety record as a matter of revealed truth as has been the case in the colonies forever

Considering the Huge Amount of Trains in India, its Amazing how good their True Safety Record is!