Denver's Ski Train Returns in 2017 (Winter Park)!

[Anderson]

It seems they solved a lot of the "glitches" with the old(er) trains with this iteration. One thing that jumps out is that, while I don't know what the exact dates are, this lines up with Amtrak's equipment pullback from last winter. Simply whacking a coach off the Zephyr or Starlight would go a long way towards covering this train.

As to the Zephyr covering longer-term pax, the issue there is more that Amtrak is frequently stuck doing capacity controls on this part of the route (as well as the Reno run). Note that the CZ PIP was run after the Ski Train was cut, and it noted this as a significant issue. Amtrak needs this train to bleed off demand.

 

[afigg]

Four Superliner Coaches and four Superliner Baggage Coaches. No food service - BYOF and BYONAD. (Bring Your Own Non-Alcoholic Drinks)

This is going to be a weekend only service. Will the Superliner cars be stored in Denver during the week? If so, it won't be an efficient use of equipment with a lot of down time for the Superliners. Which affects the cost recovery math behind the service. Same goes for the crew and OBS as well. The locomotive(s) for the ski train can serve as backup locos for the CZ, so they can do double-duty so to speak.

As Jishnu noted, the vastly expanded local transit system connecting to Denver Union Station thanks to RTD Fastracks since the Ski Train was last operated should boost ridership. And since this is an Amtrak train, presumably it will boost system ridership stats, whether the monthly reports add it to the state supported train list or put the passenger & revenue numbers into the special train category.

 

[jis]

afigg, I suspect we will see a longer CZ on Thursdays to Denver and Mondays out of Denver to rotate at least some of the cars used in and out of Denver for use elsewhere. I doubt they will sit in Denver for an entire week doing nothing.

 

[neroden]

Hmmm.....interesting....they mention a "new platform" was being constructed....if so, I wonder if this will be the end of the Zephyr stopping at Fraser to serve Winter Park?

It would be more convenient to actually get off at the ski resort....

The new platform is ADA compliant and will be served by the Winter Park Express only. The Zephyr will continue to call at Fraser and will not stop at the new Winter Park platform.

I have to wonder how long that will last. The Zephyr stopped at Fraser for Winter Park customers because there was no acceptable platform at Winter Park. It seems goofy to go past a perfectly good platform without stopping.

I'm sort of expecting the Zephyr to start stopping at Winter Park after a while. If you don't count the baggage car or the transdorm, it's the same length as the Ski Train, so it should fit.

The Ski Train is running on practically the same schedule as the Zephyr so this would only be used by people coming from beyond Denver.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Man. I really wish they still had the Ski Train F40's.

 

[jis]

Man. I really wish they still had the Ski Train F40's.

I am all for that! I loved the F40s, the little engine that saved Amtrak and many other passenger services in the US.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Trust me you don't want an all IP equipment train. From someone who works with their equipment regularly it isn't good. While it looks good from the outside (most times) inside is a totally different ball game. And I'm always cursing those cars. The domes may be nice for passengers. But for the things you don't notice the cars aren't in the best of shape.

So you volunteered on some excursions and now you're an expert on all of the IP equipment?

 

[Seaboard92]

I've worked as in paid staff. And I can tell you Scenic View, Prairie View, and Sky View. I've also worked on several other cars that I can't recall the name but I can tell you each has problems. My personal favorite the Jackson Square (we have other names for it my bosses and me) but it had bad shocks, bad carpeting, bad hvac, bad plumbing, bad seats, cracked Windows, bad seals in the Windows, bad lighting, among many other problems. Yet we still ran with it. Supposedly they made improvements. But I don't believe you can fix the car.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Man. I really wish they still had the Ski Train F40's.

I am all for that! I loved the F40s, the little engine that saved Amtrak and many other passenger services in the US.

I loved listening to those Bad Boys in station as they had to keep running high RPM to turn HEP. Sounded great!

 

[fairviewroad]

The significantly better public transit connectivity to Denver Union Station should significantly increase the appeal of this service.

Quite true, but watch those schedules. Light rail service is infrequent at that hour on weekend mornings. In some cases you'd have to plan to arrive at Union Station more than an hour ahead of time, or else risk a tight (10 minutes or less) connection.

I have to wonder how long that will last. The Zephyr stopped at Fraser for Winter Park customers because there was no acceptable platform at Winter Park. It seems goofy to go past a perfectly good platform without stopping.

Perhaps, but LD trains pass lots of "local" stations without stopping. I realize this is different than when the Zephyr passes Capitol Corridor stations, obviously. But if Amtrak added Winter Park as a stop on the Zephyr, you'd have people see two options when they went online to book the ski train. Assuming they were priced similarly, you'd have some of those people booking those short hops on the Zephyr. By keeping the stops separate, you'd have far fewer day-trippers cannibalizing the long-haul revenue.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Man. I really wish they still had the Ski Train F40's.

Those F40's are in Canada pulling the Agawa Canyon tourist trains out of Sault St. Marie, Ont. on the CN (former Algoma Central). As a matter of fact, most of the Canyon train's cars are former Ski-Train coaches.

 

[railiner]

The significantly better public transit connectivity to Denver Union Station should significantly increase the appeal of this service.

Quite true, but watch those schedules. Light rail service is infrequent at that hour on weekend mornings. In some cases you'd have to plan to arrive at Union Station more than an hour ahead of time, or else risk a tight (10 minutes or less) connection.

I have to wonder how long that will last. The Zephyr stopped at Fraser for Winter Park customers because there was no acceptable platform at Winter Park. It seems goofy to go past a perfectly good platform without stopping.

Perhaps, but LD trains pass lots of "local" stations without stopping. I realize this is different than when the Zephyr passes Capitol Corridor stations, obviously. But if Amtrak added Winter Park as a stop on the Zephyr, you'd have people see two options when they went online to book the ski train. Assuming they were priced similarly, you'd have some of those people booking those short hops on the Zephyr. By keeping the stops separate, you'd have far fewer day-trippers cannibalizing the long-haul revenue.

They could solve that simply by not allowing booking the CZ only between Denver and Winter Park on the days the Ski Train operates, and on other days only allow it after a certain date when it becomes apparent the space would not be needed by longer haul passenger's...

 

[railiner]

Man. I really wish they still had the Ski Train F40's.

Those F40's are in Canada pulling the Agawa Canyon tourist trains out of Sault St. Marie, Ont. on the CN (former Algoma Central). As a matter of fact, most of the Canyon train's cars are former Ski-Train coaches.

Are those the Hawker-Siddeley former 'Tempo' cars?

Back 'home' on the CN....

 

[fairviewroad]

The significantly better public transit connectivity to Denver Union Station should significantly increase the appeal of this service.

Quite true, but watch those schedules. Light rail service is infrequent at that hour on weekend mornings. In some cases you'd have to plan to arrive at Union Station more than an hour ahead of time, or else risk a tight (10 minutes or less) connection.

I have to wonder how long that will last. The Zephyr stopped at Fraser for Winter Park customers because there was no acceptable platform at Winter Park. It seems goofy to go past a perfectly good platform without stopping.

Perhaps, but LD trains pass lots of "local" stations without stopping. I realize this is different than when the Zephyr passes Capitol Corridor stations, obviously. But if Amtrak added Winter Park as a stop on the Zephyr, you'd have people see two options when they went online to book the ski train. Assuming they were priced similarly, you'd have some of those people booking those short hops on the Zephyr. By keeping the stops separate, you'd have far fewer day-trippers cannibalizing the long-haul revenue.

They could solve that simply by not allowing booking the CZ only between Denver and Winter Park on the days the Ski Train operates, and on other days only allow it after a certain date when it becomes apparent the space would not be needed by longer haul passenger's...

You're right, there are a lot of ways to manage that, if they wished. Some of it also depends on what the local communities want, too.

 

[chakk]

But what if someone actually wants to go from denver to fraser? Will the ski train stop at fraser platform to let them off before the consist contunues west to Tabernash to turn on the wye and wait there for the return trip?

And same issue for someone wanting to travel from fraser to denver on ski train days. Will the ski train pick them up at Fraser before continuing east to winter park to load skiers?

 

[MikefromCrete]

But what if someone actually wants to go from denver to fraser? Will the ski train stop at fraser platform to let them off before the consist contunues west to Tabernash to turn on the wye and wait there for the return trip?

And same issue for someone wanting to travel from fraser to denver on ski train days. Will the ski train pick them up at Fraser before continuing east to winter park to load skiers?

No. The ski train is an excursion. It only serves the end points. Would you expect it to drop you off at some other place along the line? It's not the Alaska Railroad's Hurricane Turn or some VIA train serving wilderness areas without road access.

 

[como]

Domefoamer: I understand your comment about the equipment of the old ski train, the old neighborhood around Union Station and the old model for access to Winter Park. The idea was to make a local ski are more accessible to people in Denver and surrounding areas. I remember that the ski train had a stop near Rocky Flats that served people in Boulder. This goes back to the day when lift tickets were cheap and Winter Park, Lake Eldora, and Hidden Valley were places that targeted families living in the Denver Metro Area.

 

[railiner]

But what if someone actually wants to go from denver to fraser? Will the ski train stop at fraser platform to let them off before the consist contunues west to Tabernash to turn on the wye and wait there for the return trip?

And same issue for someone wanting to travel from fraser to denver on ski train days. Will the ski train pick them up at Fraser before continuing east to winter park to load skiers?

The miniscule amount of passengers that actually would want to go to Fraser, would not be worth the cost of maintaining that station, if the CZ could stop at Winter Park, instead. perhaps the shuttles serving the area could accommodate them. And don't forget that the CZ would still be stopping at Granby, just a few miles beyond....

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Great news! Now we just need an enterprising person to create a service to whisk off one's baggage to one's lodgings while one goes direct to the slopes...

(spent many weeks over the years at Winter Park, all this is making me look forward to winter)

 

[eblkheart]

"A Stong Start"

Amtrak sold 3,300 tickets in the first day of sales for the new Winter Park Express train that will connect Denver and Winter Park ski area Jan. 7 through March 26.

That’s about one pair of tickets every minute and almost a quarter of all the tickets available for the weekend train service.

When Amtrak offered a trial run of the ski train to Winter Park ski area in March 2015, priced at $75 round trip, about 900 tickets for those two days of train service were gone in a matter of hours.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/31/ski-train-3300-tickets-sold/

 

[DSS&A]

MODERATOR NOTE: this post and the following post were started as a new thread on the same topic as a previous thread. The threads have been merged.

Hi,
The Winter Park Ski Train starts running on January 7, 2017. Here's a link to an article in Forbes about the renewed ski train service.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2016/10/08/colorados-famed-ski-train-is-back-for-winter-vacation-fun/#65008fdb2b85

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

Here's a second article about the renewed ski train.

http://www.denver.org/things-to-do/sports-recreation/ski-train/

 

[PaulM]

. Here's a link to an article in Forbes about the renewed ski train service.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2016/10/08/colorados-famed-ski-train-is-back-for-winter-vacation-fun/#65008fdb2b85

One of the least auto-centric articles I've ever seen.

The article did mention "dramatic improvements", but didn't mention whether eliminating the silly same day round trip requirement was one of them.

I can vouch for the fact that driving over Berthhold Pass and I 70 in the Winter is masochistic. I used to volunteer at the YMCA of the Rockees between Frasier and Granby. One of my jobs was driving seasonal employees into Denver. No fun. And that was 2005-2010. I'm sure traffic on 70 is even worse now.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak will be happy to provide dome car, and 1st class service. If your will to pay for it.

Can you point me to an example of Amtrak offering first class service with actual domes? Even their special leaf peeping and hardware retirement runs seem to be catered with box lunches and the like.

Wow, we actually get back a train that went away and there are complaints that the train isn't using crappy old equipment.

You'd think Superliners from the 1970's would be old and crappy enough for anyone.

From someone who works with their equipment regularly it isn't good. While it looks good from the outside (most times) inside is a totally different ball game. And I'm always cursing those cars. The domes may be nice for passengers. But for the things you don't notice the cars aren't in the best of shape.

On the other hand IP style equipment is more of a draw for many folks. Gotta find a way to appeal to passengers willing to spend. I just wish they had started service on a more scenic route like CS/CZ/SC than on the chicken bone express.

 

[Seaboard92]

IP equipment might appeal to some people. But for the most part people on this type service don't care about the equipment. It's more of a point A to point B. Now on a train excursion then it starts to matter. Depends a lot on who you market to.