Diner car design

[Synthguy1]

I am currently riding on #6 California Zephyr. The dining car is of a design I have not encountered. Less tables with a rounded cooking area in the middle. Is this an older version of the superliner diner? It seems like the tables are different as well with some booth type seats and a bit more space between seat and table edges.

 

[Amtrak25]

That's a 37000 series "diner lite" intended as a combo lounge and dining car, not normally found on that train.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

That car debuted as the “Cross Country Cafe” - the downstairs kitchen used to be identical to the superliner diner kitchen but it may have been modified more recently.

The car was designed so it could be a diner, a lounge, or a mix of both - it’s a pretty clever design in that way.

The original CCC service was a mix of diner and cafe with passengers being able to order from an “all day menu” that was a step above the typical cafe car and passengers still being offered more traditional dining car food during meal times. Sadly, the service didn’t last long.

 

[Synthguy1]

That's a 37000 series "diner lite" intended as a combo lounge and dining car, not normally found on that train.

Thanks. I thought it was a bit unusual.

 

[Synthguy1]

That car debuted as the “Cross Country Cafe” - the downstairs kitchen used to be identical to the superliner diner kitchen but it may have been modified more recently.

The car was designed so it could be a diner, a lounge, or a mix of both - it’s a pretty clever design in that way.

The original CCC service was a mix of diner and cafe with passengers being able to order from an “all day menu” that was a step above the typical cafe car and passengers still being offered more traditional dining car food during meal times. Sadly, the service didn’t last long.

It's too bad that the service didn't last. Would come in handy for this trip with all the delays and such.

 

[Synthguy1]

That's a 37000 series "diner lite" intended as a combo lounge and dining car, not normally found on that train.

This particular Cal Zephyr train #6 is a mixed bag of odds, ends, and leftovers. There had been a washout of tracks between Salt Lake City and Green River. West bound #5 was held below the washout E. bound #6 was held at Salt Lake.

Passengers were bussed between those 2 points and the #5 became #6 while previous #6 became #5. Now they could not turn the train , so a UP freight loco was coupled to the rear with a private passenger car between the engine and the superliner cars. That became the headend and due to speed restrictions and crew situations we didn't arrive back at Denver until after midnight.

There was a longer than usual delay in Denver but they finally got us on our way about 3:30 AM. Problem is that the now #6 is running about 7-8 hrs behind and is running out of everything. Lunch couldn't be served to quite a few passengers, and they are trying to cobble together a concoction stroganoff type thing for an " emergency" supper. The crew members are all exhausted as they are into day 4 of a 2 day trip and we might make Galesburg by 9-10!
But I still love my trains!

 

[Synthguy1]

This particular Cal Zephyr train #6 is a mixed bag of odds, ends, and leftovers. There had been a washout of tracks between Salt Lake City and Green River. West bound #5 was held below the washout E. bound #6 was held at Salt Lake.

Passengers were bussed between those 2 points and the #5 became #6 while previous #6 became #5. Now they could not turn the train , so a UP freight loco was coupled to the rear with a private passenger car between the engine and the superliner cars. That became the headend and due to speed restrictions and crew situations we didn't arrive back at Denver until after midnight.

There was a longer than usual delay in Denver but they finally got us on our way about 3:30 AM. Problem is that the now #6 is running about 7-8 hrs behind and is running out of everything. Lunch couldn't be served to quite a few passengers, and they are trying to cobble together a concoction stroganoff type thing for an " emergency" supper. The crew members are all exhausted as they are into day 4 of a 2 day trip and we might make Galesburg by 9-10!
But I still love my trains!

 

[zephyr17]

It is a diner lounge (aka "ccc"), converted from a standard diner. The galley is still downstairs and unchanged. The rounded "cooking area" is a prep area and the dumbwaiter, the mid car station on the standard diners.

 

[Shanson]

Sounds like the "diner" car on the Texas Eagle.

 

[zephyr17]

Sounds like the "diner" car on the Texas Eagle.

It is, both are diner/lounges.

They usually have some available for protection in case a standard diner is bad ordered unexpectedly. They also serve as last minute substitutions for Sightseers.

They are not popular cars.

 

[TinCan782]

I encountered a CCC on the SWC #4 last July. As far as sitting in a booth and having meals, wasn't really a problem with us compared to a standard diner.
The "give-away" for me was the little "rack" and light by the window to hold condiments, etc.
Except for no "Sightseer" windows, I figured it could be a nice sleeper lounge (as with the Popular PPC on the Coast Starlight.
Not likely now!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

They are not popular cars.

I’ve never understood why they are not. They are really well designed and imho more attractive than the traditional superliner diners.

 

[zephyr17]

I’ve never understood why they are not. They are really well designed and imho more attractive than the traditional superliner diners.

I actually prefer the diner seating setup in them, too.

They are kind of lousy lounges, though, if they are the only one offered. That's because of the split car setup with the service counter separated and facing away from the main area. A much better design for a diner/lounge is something like SP's Pride of Texas coffee shop/lounges with the service counter facing in at one end. I know that wasn't much of an option when kit bashing a Superliner diner, though.

 

[Palmland]

While many don’t care for the CCC, we like the seating configuration. And the lounge worked well on a CONO trip a few years ago when it was staffed with a friendly attendant who made great Bloody Mary’s on the way into NOL.

A think a similar configuration of the Viewliner diners would have been a good idea. But, because of limited capacity it would need to be used on a train like the Star or Crescent that normally have only a couple sleepers.

Of course an Amcafe is also necessary to handle the coaches. Unfortunately Amtrak would probably try to make a V2 diner lounge try to do it all.

 

[amtkstn]

I had rode on them on both the Capital Limited and Texas Eagle.

 

[zephyr17]

While many don’t care for the CCC, we like the seating configuration. And the lounge worked well on a CONO trip a few years ago when it was staffed with a friendly attendant who made great Bloody Mary’s on the way into NOL.

A think a similar configuration of the Viewliner diners would have been a good idea. But, because of limited capacity it would need to be used on a train like the Star or Crescent that normally have only a couple sleepers.

Of course an Amcafe is also necessary to handle the coaches. Unfortunately Amtrak would probably try to make a V2 diner lounge try to do it all.

I was always really disappointed when a Diner/Lounge was substituted for the PPC, which was a fairly regular occurrance. It just didn't work as lounge space, passengers generally didn't use the diner side at all for lounge space.

Of course, one trip when one of the worst attendants I've ever seen on Amtrak hid in the downstairs galley most of the trip (he often played music or playing on his computer, so I knew he was down there). That was really unusual for a PPC attendant, but he was awful.

 

[MARC Rider]

They've been using the CCC for a diner on the Capitol Limited for years, even before flex dining, and it worked fine. Last fall, I rode the Capitol, and they let us use the CCC during the day as a lounge car, and while it wasn't quite the same as the Sightseer Lounger, it wasn't too bad. I was in a sleeper and getting flex food, which I mostly ate in the CCC, but I did eat lunch in my room.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

They've been using the CCC for a diner on the Capitol Limited for years, even before flex dining, and it worked fine. Last fall, I rode the Capitol, and they let us use the CCC during the day as a lounge car, and while it wasn't quite the same as the Sightseer Lounger, it wasn't too bad. I was in a sleeper and getting flex food, which I mostly ate in the CCC, but I did eat lunch in my room.

I remember riding the Capitol with traditional dining car service and a SSL on the train but the cafe service was in the CCC car. That meant there was only 1 LSA needed for the train.

That seemed like a sensible way to reduce the staff without affecting the passengers in any way.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I remember riding the Capitol with traditional dining car service and a SSL on the train but the cafe service was in the CCC car. That meant there was only 1 LSA needed for the train.

That seemed like a sensible way to reduce the staff without affecting the passengers in any way.

I'm gonna disagree. On the Texas Eaglete, One LSA is trying to run both the Cafe and the Diner( Flex Meals) for Sleeping Car Passengers in the CCC .

This results in the Cafe only being Open for Brief periods and not at all during Meal Times.

Asking 1 person to do the work of 3-4 is not beneficial to Passengers and not Fair to the LSA!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I'm gonna disagree. On the Texas Eaglete, One LSA is trying to run both the Cafe and the Diner for Sleeping Car Passengers in the CCC .

This results in the Cafe only being Open for Brief periods and not at all during Meal Times.

Asking 1 person to do the work of 3-4 is not beneficial to Passengers and not Fair to the LSA.

Note - this was before flex dining. In this case there was also a chef and 2 servers. That’s what I think was ideal.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Note - this was before flex dining. In this case there was also a chef and 2 servers. That’s what I think was ideal.

A Chef and Servers? What are they?

 

[jpakala]

In early March on the Texas Eagle there were two attendants, not just one, both when we went and when we returned.

 

[Bob Dylan]

In early March on the Texas Eagle there were two attendants, not just one, both when we went and when we returned.

Did they allow you to hang out in the CCC?

 

[MARC Rider]

In early March on the Texas Eagle there were two attendants, not just one, both when we went and when we returned.

My recollection of my trips back in 2019 was that two attendants was the standard for the flex dining service, and on the Cardinal, the coach attendant actually helped out one of the cafe car attendants, so we got our flex meals served dining car style.

Perhaps the recent experience is due to the staff shortages related to the Covid layoffs and the Great Resignation, and that as Amtrak hires more OBS and gets them online, the situation will improve.

 

[jpakala]

As far as I know you could "hang out" because there were ample tables and only sleeping car passengers were dining, usually with at least a table or two remaining available at any given time. We lingered, enjoying the scenery as well as food. The white tablecloth was only at dinner, though. We didn't go into the other end of the car beyond the service counter that served primarily coach passengers.