Diner to come off the CNO for good

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

This was off the CNO yahoo group.

hope everyone on this list had the experience of eating in the diner on the CoNO. It's now history.

Amtrak has used the Katrina situation to yank the dining car off of

58/59, and the word is that it is NOT coming back. Word is that

21/22 and 29/30 are next, if the diner hasn't already come off

those trains.

Amtrak tried the elimination of dining car service before as you

may well remember. Back during the cuts under the Carter and

Reagan administrations, the CoNO was reduced to a straight

Amfleet train. Microwaved hot dogs were that train's high class

quisine. We took a box of crackers on the train instead....

Perhaps this time they will try to outsource food service or some

other gimick, but you may have seen the end of diner service as

you've known it on 58/59. Microwave pizza anyone?

:angry:

 

[Guest]

I am booked on the Texas EAgle from Austin to Chicago in October. I will be pissed off if I get a box lunch instead of the promised hot meals...Bill

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee]

Get ready, folks. This is only the begining! OBS...

 

[Sam Damon]

Time to warm up those digits for some phone calls to the federal legislators...

 

[Sam Damon]

Get ready, folks. This is only the begining! OBS...

Rang up some types on Capitol Hill: OBS is right.

Diners are to disappear Real Soon Now on several trains. One source on the Hill has told me it is owing to the unsettled funding situation. Worse, it may stick, perhaps during all FY 2006.

 

[Bill Needles]

I am booked on the Texas Eagle, the Capital Limited and the Crescent the first week of October. What are the odds I will have a Diner Car on those routes? Bill

 

[Midland Valley]

Since I have reservations for 29/30 in march, I called Amtrak and they couldn't find where it was losing its diner. She acknowledged the CoNOL had lost its diner. She said keep in touch.

 

[Viewliner]

Disgraceful, no LD should be without a diner, it's bad enough that the Three Rivers didn't have one and that the Cardinal doesn't, but now to take it off the City of New Orleans is only going to lower ridership and is a step towards elimination practically. We definitely have to stop this now before it spreads systemwide otherwise the rails will truly be losing a longstanding piece of there identity. Amenities should be added now, not taken away. What is the justification/goal in this? Lower costs? Because it sure as hell isn't to raise ridership and revenue.

 

[AmtrakFan]

This is pathetic there is no excuse for an LD to have no diner. Uh could this be a rumor I haven't heard anything from my soruces

 

[battalion51]

Well apparently youre "sources" are out of the loop. There's been chatter on this topic for well over two months now, and they're still not hearing anything?

What would you rather have the diner or the train? Your choice.

 

[AmtrakFan]

Well apparently youre "sources" are out of the loop. There's been chatter on this topic for well over two months now, and they're still not hearing anything?
What would you rather have the diner or the train? Your choice.

Well I'd rather have the train. Looks like it's gone for good I looked for a trip in May and it was not listed as a service.

 

[AmtrakFan]

The Diner is still on 21/22 and 29/30 Mr. BNSF1088. I highly doubt 29/30 Diner will go because it still runs thru with 3/4 so that would cause a switching nightmare in Chicago to seperate the train and then put on the Diner. Write to Head Quarters about how disguced you are about these changes if they become true. I am warming up my Phone to call my Congressmen Friday.

 

[Bill Needles]

This was posted in another thread tonite, it seems to show the diner survives on the Texas Eagle...Bill

Here's a copy of the official Amtrak Advisory issued in ARROW earlier today:

SUNSET LIMITED/TEXAS EAGLE SEPARATE TRAINS AGAIN

FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS THE THROUGH TRAIN OPERATION (TRAINS

421/422) HAS PROVEN UNWORKABLE. THEREFORE, THE SUNSET AND

EAGLE WILL RETURN TO THEIR FORMER OPERATION.

- TRAINS 1/2 WILL OPERATE LAX-SAS-LAX ONLY, THREE DAYS A WEEK.

- TRAINS 21/22 WILL OPERATE CHI-SAS-CHI, DAILY.

- THROUGH CARS, ONE SLEEPER AND ONE COACH, WILL BE SWITCHED

BETWEEN THE TWO TRAINS. THESE THROUGH CARS ARE 421/422.

THE CONSIST OF THE TRAINS WILL BE:

- LOCAL TRANSITION SLEEPER (1/2 AND 21/22, SEPARATELY)

WITH ROOMETTE SPACE SOLD TO THE PUBLIC

- LOCAL BAGGAGE-COACH (1/2 AND 21/22, SEPARATELY)

- LOCAL COACH (1/2 AND 21/22, SEPARATELY)

- DINER (HALF DINING CAR SERVICE, HALF LOUNGE SERVICE)

- COACH (421/422 THREE DAYS, 21/22 THE OTHER FOUR)

- SLEEPER (421/422 THREE DAYS, 21/22 THE OTHER FOUR)

- COACH (321/322 CHI-STL-CHI ONLY)

 

[sechs]

Was the "Add Reply" button stuck?

 

[AlanB]

Was the "Add Reply" button stuck?

I cleaned up the duplicate posts.

 

[Bill Needles]

Sorry, I kept getting an error message when I hit send...Bill

 

[Sam Damon]

I may have gone off half-cocked yesterday.

Another different, solid, well-placed source has emailed me contradicting the diner-off info, and stating the CNO diner-off bit is *strictly* because of Hurricane Katrina. The source also had the same rumor I had, namely that the TE and CL might be next, but also reminded me anything is possible in today's budget environment.

Just tell yourself that calling your congressfolk was good for their souls...

(wiping small bits of egg from face)

 

[lepearso]

No need to panic. The City lost its diner simply because it has lost a good portion of its market now that its namesake city and the entire gulf region are out of commission. Also, Amtrak does not have the means to stock and staff a diner on a train that terminates at Jackson, at least not at this time.

I genuinely hope that the diner of the Texas Eagle is not on the chopping block and, in a way, I don't think that it is. However, the train itself needs an expanding market pentration. Now that the Sunset is truncated indefinintely, it's a perfect opportunity to look at making some route revisions.

In my opinion, Amtrak would get far more bang for the buck if the Texas Eagle was rerouted from Fort Worth west to Los Angeles by way of a direct route to El Paso. This would open up a much larger market and eliminate almost an entire day or travel time between Dallas, FW, and several key cities in the West.

The San Antonio leg could instead turn into a corridor-type route with two daily round trips and multiple bus feeders, al la the San Joaquin service, and grow from there.

Then, the Sunset could become a Fort Worth to Florida train either by way of Houston and New Orleans or by way of Jackson, Birmingham, and Atlanta, the latter of which would move us one step closer to closing a major gap in the Chicago-Florida market.

 

[AlanB]

No need to panic. The City lost its diner simply because it has lost a good portion of its market now that its namesake city and the entire gulf region are out of commission. Also, Amtrak does not have the means to stock and staff a diner on a train that terminates at Jackson, at least not at this time.

Well I'm no expert on the staffing issues, but I do think that could easily be worked out. However, the dining car needs no restocking. It is easily capable of carrying enough food out of Chicago for both the run down to Jackson or Hammond and the return back to Chicago.

They need only carry two dinners and two breakfasts with them. The Chief, the Zephyr, and the Builder carry far more than that when they pull out of Chicago.

Now you may have something with regard to the market not being there and ridership being so low as to not make the diner worth the loss, but again it's not about restocking.

 

[dmwnc1959]

The 'Carolinian' runs from Charlotte, NC-NYP and back, and usually takes 13-16 hours each way including delays. The 'Carolinian' also has no full service dining car (I sure wish it did!!!). If you catch the train direct out of Charlotte or NYP, you can easily end up eating all THREE meals on the train: breakfast, lunch, AND dinner! As many times as I have taken this train I always still pack some food and drinks.

If the CURRENT 'City of New Orleans' CHI-Jackson runs about the same length of time (15 hours) it really doesnt need a full service dining car. A Lounge/Snack car is sufficient.

 

[saxman]

Amtrak taking away diners doesn't really make sense to me. The Empire Builder was redone, and Amtrak is soon to announce another route to be "redone" in the coming months. So eliminating diners seem kinda against that plan.

Here comes the fight guys....everyone should be ready to call those Congressmen. Its up to us.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The 'Carolinian' runs from Charlotte, NC-NYP and back, and usually takes 13-16 hours each way including delays. The 'Carolinian' also has no full service dining car (I sure wish it did!!!). If you catch the train direct out of Charlotte or NYP, you can easily end up eating all THREE meals on the train: breakfast, lunch, AND dinner! As many times as I have taken this train I always still pack some food and drinks.
If the CURRENT 'City of New Orleans' CHI-Jackson runs about the same length of time (15 hours) it really doesnt need a full service dining car. A Lounge/Snack car is sufficient.

Keep in mind on the "Carolinian," there is no first class (sleeper) service involved. They only have business class service as a step up from coach. First class passenegers on the other long distance trains pay top dollar for their accomodations. Forcing them to eat out of a cafe/lounge car is just plain wrong in my opinion. The dining car is a necessary evil in a sense, being that it provides a place to have a full meal while traveling, and allows a part of the traditional long distance rail travel experience to exist! Another thing to keep in mind is the fact is the "Carolinian" is a state supported train. If the state wants to kick in the support, a diner could feasibly be included in that train's consist if the price was right to Amtrak. Then Amtrak would pull diners from wherever they could (even if it meant a train losing its diner) in order to accomodate that. Of course that scenario is not likely to happen as the dining car is a loss before it ever leaves the rail yard.

Now the idea regarding the "City" was planned long before Hurricane Katrina was ever worried about and came to pass. And it was to operate between NOL and CHI in that fashion it does right now! In other words, folks, observe all of what goes on in the remaining year, the coming year and thereafter. There are major reforms going to take place at Amtrak! There's no question about that! Congress has made that very clear in my opinion. The comment regarding the "City" this previous poster makes is how the business world as well as our government (and I am sure some members of Amtrak management may do so, too) sees it right now! I hope I am dead wrong for the sake of passenger rail as we know it today! That is just one little part of it all. OBS...

 

[Trogdor]

There are major reforms going to take place at Amtrak! There's no question about that! Congress has made that very clear in my opinion.

Well, in my opinion, congress has made *nothing* clear. Congress has done absolutely nothing, one way or the other, as far as Amtrak, passenger rail, public transportation, or transportation in general are concerned. Congress has continually passed the buck, kicked the can down the road (to use a phrase from David Gunn), and put decisions off from year to year.

The only thing congress has made clear is that they are incapable of making any decisions in regards to transportation policy.

 

[dmwnc1959]

Keep in mind on the "Carolinian," there is no first class (sleeper) service involved.

Excellent point indeed! THANKS

I guess the only thing keeping Amtrak from turning the 'City Of New Orleans' into a 15-hour non-sleeper 'dayrun' like the 'Carolinian' is its connecting service to other cross-country routes?

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The only thing congress has made clear is that they are incapable of making any decisions in regards to transportation policy.

As my job and livelyhood are concerned, this is absolutley what I meant by "congress has made it very clear!" There are other reasons regarding my knowledge of government and its inner workings which I cannot post here. But I can assure you reforms are coming at Amtrak! OBS...