Dining car meal

[trainman74]

Yeah I thought the Bison Meatloaf was too spicy for the average person as well. Me, I loved it, but I often have to take the lid off the pepper shaker to get enough pepper out of it for my taste.

Photo of EB_OBS off duty:

 

[SarahZ]

Yeah I thought the Bison Meatloaf was too spicy for the average person as well. Me, I loved it, but I often have to take the lid off the pepper shaker to get enough pepper out of it for my taste. I love spicy. Jalapenos... YUM!

If it hadn't been so spicy I think it could have been a mainstay on the menu of the Empire Builder.

Meanwhile, I find black pepper to be too spicy sometimes. I peel the skin off the Herb-Roasted Half-Chicken because a mouthful of the seasoning sends me reaching for my drink.

 

[northnorthwest]

For what it is worth, my trip last summer on the CZ (complaints documented on this forum) was also very, very disappointing. I have had good experiences on the Crescent and LSL. I wonder if that route's kitchen situation is particularly problematic….and why….

 

[amamba]

Bravo to Sarah and trainman74 for their use of gifs and jpgs in this thread! We need more of them in every post.

Personally I live in a foodie city and I'm used to creative dishes made with local ingredients. I find the amtrak food tolerable for a few days but on no level would I call it gourmet.

I have had some steaks have been completely inedible as well as a burger that was like a hockey puck.

Actually I had a nasty steak on acela first class a few weeks ago. The meat had a funky taste to it and it was cooked way past well done.

Personally for me I can't tolerate red meat if its cooked past medium rare so that is probably my biggest issue with the red meat on the train. I realize that is a personal preference, though.

 

[Ispolkom]

Yeah I thought the Bison Meatloaf was too spicy for the average person as well. Me, I loved it, but I often have to take the lid off the pepper shaker to get enough pepper out of it for my taste.

Photo of EB_OBS off duty:

This explains why 3 out of 4 times when I ask for a bottle of Tabasco sauce in the Empire Builder dining car I'm given a new one with the protective sealing still on. Obviously EB_OBS is finishing the old ones off. For what it's worth I really liked the Buffaloaf, and didn't find it too spicy. Of course, I'm the one eating my oatmeal with Tabasco sauce...

 

[yarrow]

Yeah I thought the Bison Meatloaf was too spicy for the average person as well. Me, I loved it, but I often have to take the lid off the pepper shaker to get enough pepper out of it for my taste.

Photo of EB_OBS off duty:

This explains why 3 out of 4 times when I ask for a bottle of Tabasco sauce in the Empire Builder dining car I'm given a new one with the protective sealing still on. Obviously EB_OBS is finishing the old ones off. For what it's worth I really liked the Buffaloaf, and didn't find it too spicy. Of course, I'm the one eating my oatmeal with Tabasco sauce...

i tried the bison loaf a couple times and found it ok(not like my mom's which is my judging criterion for meatloaf)but what i really liked, and what made me order it, was that it was a regional specialty which, imho, should be encouraged

 

[TVRM610]

Restaurants all over the world (especially low-end chains) operate successfully with this "product" because they can put it into a better context for the diner. They can have big restaurants and bars with loud music and colorful plates and all the branding you need to create a "unique" experience in every city in North America. This goes back to my argument about the plates. People eating Aramark food at other venues judge it according to how it is presented to them. I've been raised on Aramark food all my life (unfortunately). My school lunches were Aramark, my college food options were Aramark, I have Aramark on airplanes and trains and on just about half the restaurants in my hometown. The only reason some people can get away with serving it as "great food" is when they can properly contextualize the food as part of an experience that includes all of the psychological trimmings of a good meal. Amtrak provides a few select people with this context, but for most people if you're in a dingy railcar being served pre-prepared dishes on plastic plates with wine in plastic cups with no touch of personality (not even a flower) on the table their brains are setting their taste buds up for a bad meal.

*emphasis added by me*

First of all.. I totally agree and appreciate you pointing out that Aramark provides the same "quality" (or lack thereof) food products to restaurant chains all over the country.

I disagree on your presentation thoughts however... when I travel on the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight I hear the same comments about food quality that I hear on other trains. In fact.. once when having lunch with a pleasant couple on the Empire Builder.. the couple commented "well I guess it's classier than a mcdonalds but not by much" to which i wanted to jump across the booth and shout out "feel the ceramic plate! feel the cloth table cloth! look at the flower! feel the glassware! look at the amtrak logo engraved silverware!"

likewise.. when on the Silver Meteor about a month ago a nice lady returning home commented "you know I'm really surprised how good the food is on board the trains" - and that was after the flowers were removed.

Just my observations on the presentation... I do think presentation matters.. I just have seen that it doesn't always make the difference.

Also... plastic wine glasses have not been around for a while from what I have seen... I've seen real wine glasses on the Crescent just 2 weeks ago. Perhaps some crews use them because they are lazy, or maybe they ran out or something.. but real wine glasses are still alive and well in all the dining cars from what I have seen lately.

 

[greatcats]

I think the presentation has a great deal to do with how much I enjoy the meal. On the SWC a few weeks ago, I had the plastic wine glasses. Tacky. When I go tent camping I have nice looking metal wine glasses! Although, I will admit my 50+ year old aluminum dinnerware set is pretty grungy looking.

I don't mind sometimes eating in a restaurant that is something of a dump, but the food is really good and it shows some local character. We can keep going round and round about Amtrak food service. While it has some good points, it could be better, and I do not appreciate the cheap, tacky approach.

 

[TVRM610]

So in an attempt to give this thread some purpose, I have a question maybe some of you can answer:

How is Amtrak food in relation to Via Rail's? If you feel there is a large difference in food quality from one to the other, why do you think it's the case and could the gap reasonably be closed?

VIA Rail's Canadian has a dining car experience that is much classier than Amtrak. As far as I know.. all other VIA rail trains have much more basic dining cars.. but I have only ridden the Canadian.

The ambience is classy... dimmed lighting and not the harsh bright flourescents, the Steward doesn't have paperwork and random stacks of supplies scattered across 2 tables when you walk in... the Stewards calls himself a "Dining Car Stewards" and not a "LSA Diner"

Flowers on the table (albeit plastic flowers), linen table cloths, and when you sit down the table is set very classy. For breakfast there are little jars of jams, and they bring you a little ceramic pitcher of syrup with your pancackes / french toast.

For Dinner the Steward stops by each table and asks if anyone would like "something from the bar" - this not only adds class.. it also increases the alcohol sales.

The menus change for each meal.. no "standard" menu. And the menus are presented in elegant menu books.

The food itself is certainly a step above Amtrak.. but it should be noted that when the train took on supplies, SYSCO was stocking the dining car. I'm pretty sure my pasta was not prepared any different on VIA then it is on Amtrak.. it may have been a slightly better quality of "product" or just more carefully prepared... because it did seem to taste better than Amtrak Pasta.. but I'm sure it arrived on the train prepared and frozen.

The quality of service in my experience (only 2 VIA rail dining car crews vs. countless Amtrak) is really just "good" and not excellent. I've had servers on Amtrak that were more friendly and attentive, but several that were less friendly and attentive. I've heard several rave reviews of VIA staff so either it used to be better.. or I just hit a couple of "off" crews.. I haven't ridden enough VIA to judge fairly.

Entree to Entree comparison?

The Lamb Shank and Mahi Mahi filet on Amtrak were slightly better than the Roast Duck and Fish Dish that I had on VIA.

The Pasta, Side Salads, and Veggies on VIA are much better than on Amtrak.

Desserts appear classier on VIA (bowl of ice cream, cheesecacke with fancy syrup garnish etc.) but surely come pre-made.

Breakfasts are slightly better on VIA.. but mostly because of options, eggs any way you like them, toast etc. The quality seems a little better on VIA.. but not by much.

These are my personal comparisons VIA vs. Amtrak. I think VIA orders a slightly higher quality product, and has extra staff in the kitchen... and has standard procedures that create a more elegant environment.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Just because raw materials come from a large supply source does not suggest its preprepared. Not saying it isn't. But I know several people who got into the restaurant business successful and they all started out buying their food from individual vendors and stuff like that, carefully sourcing it. All of them switched to a big food supplier. Why? Because they are in the business of preparing 300-500 meals every night that have to come out to their customers in the right sequence at the right time of the right quality with the correct order hot and piping. They have to manage waitresses and bus people and cash transactions and their cooking staff and their liquor sales and all of that stuff from 10 in the afternoon until around midnight and they don't have time to get into the food procurement business too. They pay people like Sysco or Aramark handsomely to find them too notch raw ingredients so that they don't have to. And trust me, one of these guys is a five star outta manahTtan.

Where they buy their supplies implies nothing unless they carefully source each item which implies they are either 1) new 2) anal retentive or 3) stupid.

 

[TVRM610]

Just because raw materials come from a large supply source does not suggest its preprepared. Not saying it isn't.

Where they buy their supplies implies nothing unless they carefully source each item which implies they are either 1) new 2) anal retentive or 3) stupid.

GML.. I totally agree.. just pointing out that VIA and Amtrak both source from the big large suppliers. Does VIA get more "Fresh" food? I'm pretty certain and as I said it certainly seems they get overall a higher quality of product.

 

[rrdude]

Just because raw materials come from a large supply source does not suggest its preprepared. Not saying it isn't. But I know several people who got into the restaurant business successful and they all started out buying their food from individual vendors and stuff like that, carefully sourcing it. All of them switched to a big food supplier. Why? Because they are in the business of preparing 300-500 meals every night that have to come out to their customers in the right sequence at the right time of the right quality with the correct order hot and piping. They have to manage waitresses and bus people and cash transactions and their cooking staff and their liquor sales and all of that stuff from 10 in the afternoon until around midnight and they don't have time to get into the food procurement business too. They pay people like Sysco or Aramark handsomely to find them too notch raw ingredients so that they don't have to. And trust me, one of these guys is a five star outta manahTtan.

Where they buy their supplies implies nothing unless they carefully source each item which implies they are either 1) new 2) anal retentive or 3) stupid.

I luv ya GM, but I gotta disagree. While there is nothing inherently "wrong" with buying food from Sysco, USFood, et. all, unless you are buying the TOP END offerings, you, and discerning customers, CAN tell the difference. Especially in the produce and protien areas. Bagged lettuce vs. cutting a fresh head of Iceberg or Romaine a few minutes before meal time? No comparison. Dressing made with pre-packaged spices? Ugh.. (Fresh basil, fresh, thyme, fresh oregano......you get the idea)

Relying on the "Broad Line" Food Service distributors like Sysco and USFood can be addictive though. Who likes to compare the cost butter pats, eggs, cheese, avocados, etc., etc., etc. every week? Who? No one, that's who.

Who DOES it? Successful restaurants, with motivated cooks or kitchen managers, that's who. Buying fresh is usually WAY cheaper. But, an org like Amtrak will never be in that position.

I think the real test or "example" is the Bag-O-Cut-Salad vs. the freshly chopped iceberg and Romaine salad. I'd be shocked, (and I probably will be) on people who prefer the taste, texture, and quality of bagged salad vs fresh. Convenient? You bet. Better product. Not by a long shot. Acceptable to the masses? unfortunately, "yes".

If a restaurant DOES choose to stick to the Broad Line purveyors, they will do well to "doctor the items up", we did just that when we ran our dinner train. When we bought the operation, it was literally serving the Stouffer's lasagna right out of the foil pans, and it was "Schlock" to say the least. Even something as simple as that, or, back to the bagged lettuce, adding SOME fresh veggies or Fresh dressings, can make an average or below average product taste and present itself much better.

Alas, there was nothing we could do to save the "meatless meatballs". My partner was all caught up on the low price, and didn't ask our Sysco rep any questions, assumed they WERE "meat" meatballs..... Only later, after a crush of complaints did my partner tell us that the meatless meatballs we served our customer one night. (we actually pulled them from the buffet before dinner was over) were produced for "institutional facilities" read: prisons and such...

Hope Amtrak never stoops that low!

 

[amamba]

Where they buy their supplies implies nothing unless they carefully source each item which implies they are either 1) new 2) anal retentive or 3) stupid.

Disagree. There are many restaurants that use carefully sourced food from local farms. I make it a habit to eat at those restaurants even though they are more expensive because I like supporting local farmers and the food is better. It is so nice to know where the meat came from, where the carrots came from, etc.

Heck, even my favorite taco truck uses locally sourced meat and produce.

 

[Ryan]

I think both of those would fall under #2.

It's certainly a niche market (but growing).

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Oh you can certainly tell midrange Sysco to fresh local. But top range? I doubt many people can tell whether my van or a Sysco truck brought the fresh lettuce I cut into tonight's salad.

 

[Ispolkom]

It seems to me that Amtrak's dining car food has improved since I began riding it regularly again six years ago. Sure, on a multiday journey I wish there were greater variety in entrees, but the entrees themselves are much more consistent, and, I think on average better than they were in 2007 and 2008.

Vegetarian entrees are especially improved. The Bucatini pasta with sun-dried tomatoes, asparagus and edamame beans Mrs. Ispolkom ordered on the Empire Builder last fall was an enormous improvement over the cheese-stuffed rigatoni that I always called a plate of sadness.

ETA: That being said, I only eat in the dining car when I'm traveling in a sleeper. If I had to actually pay the prices listed in the menu, I'd probably not eat any meal other than breakfast in the dining car.

 

[trainaddict]

Despite what others here say, Amtrak Full Meal Service is not fine dining. Fine dining establishments use established ratings systems. Amtrak Full Meal Service is not even included in the Zagnut Ratings.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Despite what others here say, Amtrak Full Meal Service is not fine dining. Fine dining establishments use established ratings systems. Amtrak Full Meal Service is not even included in the Zagnut Ratings.

And?? Does Amtrak advertise it as "Fine Dining"?

 

[Ryan]

Despite what others here say, Amtrak Full Meal Service is not fine dining.

Who is saying that?

 

[gwschenk]

The veggie burger is excellent. Back in the day, the chicken Kiev was pretty good.

 

[jimhudson]

I'm with Ispolkam on the if I had to pay for my meals on Amtrak LD I'd only have Breakfast! I consider the Prices charged for Lunch and Dinner Excessive for what's on offer! The Cafe Menu and Prices are even more of a rip off IMHO!

That being said, I agree that the food being offered on the LD Trains in the Diners is Consistently better than in years past! The Salads need Improvement to match the Better Dressing being supplied! (Newman'sOwn over Kraft)

But don't let Mica know, he'll hold a hearing and waste more taxpayers money than Amtrak ever has!

 

[TraneMan]

Yeah I thought the Bison Meatloaf was too spicy for the average person as well. Me, I loved it, but I often have to take the lid off the pepper shaker to get enough pepper out of it for my taste. I love spicy. Jalapenos... YUM!

If it hadn't been so spicy I think it could have been a mainstay on the menu of the Empire Builder.

Meanwhile, I find black pepper to be too spicy sometimes. I peel the skin off the Herb-Roasted Half-Chicken because a mouthful of the seasoning sends me reaching for my drink.

LOL

I love black pepper.. I be shaking like crazy to get the pepper out fast enough, then Eric said, why not take the lid off!?

I love the herb-roasted chicken!

 

[amamba]

Oh you can certainly tell midrange Sysco to fresh local. But top range? I doubt many people can tell whether my van or a Sysco truck brought the fresh lettuce I cut into tonight's salad.

True that!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Just because raw materials come from a large supply source does not suggest its preprepared.

If one considers "pre-cooked" to mean "preprepared" then then over half of the cooked dishes in the diner are preprepared.

Typically the breakfast meats are precooked, eggs are usually raw (usually pre-scrambled, but I have seen egg shells in the trash on occasion) but can be substituted. The potato medley is pre-cooked and frozen. The french toast varies by train but the standard only needs heated in an oven. For lunch the burgers are precooked patties that are frozen (I've heard of raw burgers in years past but never seen them myself), veggie burgers as well, some special sandwiches are pre-cooked (like pulled-pork or BBQ brisket). I would imagine most of the hot lunch specials (those usually liquid-with-meat-over-rice dishes) are precooked and just need reheated. I know that the lamb shank special that was circulating a few years back was a fully-cooked dish that was thawed and reheated on board. I surmise many of the similar hot dinner specials (the numerous shanks especially) circulating today are similarly prepared; as was the "red wine braised flat iron bordelaise" that kicked one of the only remaining raw dishes (the steak) off the menu for awhile. The half-chickens are fully cooked and reheated on board. Mashed potatoes are reconstituted. Rice pilaf is pre-cooked. And of course all of the dessert cakes are frozen.

Your best options for getting fresh food cooked from raw on board by an Amtrak employee are eggs at breakfast, the salad at lunch and the steak and potato at dinner. I would welcome any other dining information from knowledgeable sources, I'd like to know what else isn't fully cooked when brought on board.

 

[TVRM610]

I know that the lamb shank special that was circulating a few years back was a fully-cooked dish that was thawed and reheated on board.

That Lamb Shank is probably the best dishe I've ever had on any train. The lamb shank itself could be served in AAA 3 Diamond Restaurant in my opinion. (I'm not saying it could be served with Amtrak mashed potatoes.. but the shank itself as an entree). Now it's been a while so maybe I'm over rating it but I know for certain it was very good.

I'm not arguing that it came fully cooked... I'm just saying it was one of the best things ever on the Amtrak menu in my opinion.