Discontinued Amtrak Route You Want Revived.

[jis]

And at the end of the drive you have a car handy in Florida for your stay. It is not like you can get from anywhere to anywhere in Florida without a car.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Somehow the revived Floridian or Flamingo or whatever will be unlike every present-day Amtrak LD train? I mean, it will have enuff Chicago-Florida riders to matter? Not very likely.

iirc The Capitol Ltd carries about 30% of its riders end to end, the most of any LD train. The others have roughly 15% of all riders make end-to-end trips.

So why sweat the fastest time CHI-FLA?

Any such train will live or die on its ridership CHI-INDY, INDY-Louisville, Louisville-Nashville, Louisville-CHI, Nashville-Indy, etc.

I could easily imagine a train CHI-FLA that carried more riders within Kentucky and Tennessee than end to end. Louisville-Frankfort-Lexington-Winchester for one, and Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga for another.

Looking at the extended CONO/Gulf Coaster, I expect success: It is not designed to be a CHI-Orlando train, or even a NOLA-Orlando train. It can carry those riders, but they will be less than 15% of the total. Instead, it will carry riders New Orleans-casino coast Biloxi, New Orleans-Mobile, casino coast Biloxi-Pensacola, Tallahassee-Jacksonville, Tallahassee (Florida State)-Lake City (Thruway bus to Gainesville Univ of Florida), Tallahassee-Daytona, etc.

Now we do need to get from CHI to some place that can service the train and turn it around: Miami/Hialeah, Orlando/Sanford, and New Orleans.

And it would be nice to include Atlanta, but several Southern LD trains do quite well without ATL.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

So why sweat the fastest time CHI-FLA?

Looking at the extended CONO/Gulf Coaster, I expect success: It is not designed to be a CHI-Orlando train, or even a NOLA-Orlando train. It can carry those riders, but they will be less than 15% of the total. Instead, it will carry riders New Orleans-casino coast Biloxi, New Orleans-Mobile, casino coast Biloxi-Pensacola, Tallahassee-Jacksonville, Tallahassee (Florida State)-Lake City (Thruway bus to Gainesville Univ of Florida), Tallahassee-Daytona, etc.

Because the fastest time would also mean faster times between cities en route attracting more local riders. Those slow sections cost local riders when other options are far quicker.

I expect it to be a success too.

 

[dlagrua]

My vote is for the Floridian as there is no direct route From MIA to CHI, the main Amtrak hub. Presently, you would have to take the Silvers to WAS then change for the Capitol Ltd. You would be looking at about 33 hrs of travel time (that includes the lay over of 4 hours at WAS).

Agree that the tracks south of Nashville would need to be upgraded/reactivated but it all comes down to the investment vs the return. IMO a 30 hour trip from CHI-MIA is not unreasonable and many passengers would get off a the 25 hour mark that is Orlando. For an overnight ORL to CHI, not bad. Take a look at the Cardinal and its packed much of the year. From NYP -CHI is about 29 hours. If a new Floridian can stay within 30 hours, I would say that it would be successful and lets not forget that the Floridian was also the mid-west Autotrain. Its had to stop outside of Louisville for quite a while to attach the Autotrain consist that slowed the trip down considerably.

 

[west point]

It certainly would be interesting to know passenger counts Capitol (CHI -- {Cincinnati if that route ] ) <> Star ( from JAX south ). That will give end point ridership that will be almost guaranteed. Intermediate point travel that will be much greater one can only guess. Of course it still is the problem of no available equipment for at least 5 years.

 

[Cheesesauce]

I know it isn't on the list but Detroit to Cincinnati (old Cincinnatian). I had to drive that route for the last decade and lamented seeing the rail going along 75. Ohio is in need of some love (its 11th in population!!) but with the 3C being killed by Kasich I don't know if it will ever happen.

Niagara Rainbow too just because its a pain to have to drive to Toledo to go east.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The one thing I have never understood (and will probably never understand) is why we keep entertaining the idea of bringing passenger rail back to regions that have made it abundantly clear that they do not support such service. I believe our focus and our energy should be spent on making genuinely pro-rail areas as fast and efficient and enjoyable as possible. Maybe rope in some nearby neutral areas as well when it makes sense. I honestly believe that trying to sell passenger rail to a hostile region where mass transit is seen as a socialist attack on conservative values only serves to impede our primary directive. Obama's early missteps on passenger rail funding ended up giving anti-rail politicians like Scott Walker something tangible to run against and a project they could immediately undermine and subvert once in office. That's a powerful lesson we should remember whenever discussing future initiatives.

 

[railiner]

The one thing I have never understood (and will probably never understand) is why we keep entertaining the idea of bringing passenger rail back to regions that have made it abundantly clear that they do not support such service. I believe our focus and our energy should be spent on making genuinely pro-rail areas as fast and efficient and enjoyable as possible. Maybe rope in some nearby neutral areas as well when it makes sense. I honestly believe that trying to sell passenger rail to a hostile region where mass transit is seen as a socialist attack on conservative values only serves to impede our primary directive. Obama's early missteps on passenger rail funding ended up giving anti-rail politicians like Scott Walker something tangible to run against and a project they could immediately undermine and subvert once in office. That's a powerful lesson we should remember whenever discussing future initiatives.

I think some of us in this thread are simply not taking politics and other circumstances into consideration when proposing bringing back dormant routes. Instead, it is just a "wish list"....nothing more....

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

The one thing I have never understood (and will probably never understand) is why we keep entertaining the idea of bringing passenger rail back to regions that have made it abundantly clear that they do not support such service. I believe our focus and our energy should be spent on making genuinely pro-rail areas as fast and efficient and enjoyable as possible. Maybe rope in some nearby neutral areas as well when it makes sense. I honestly believe that trying to sell passenger rail to a hostile region where mass transit is seen as a socialist attack on conservative values only serves to impede our primary directive. Obama's early missteps on passenger rail funding ended up giving anti-rail politicians like Scott Walker something tangible to run against and a project they could immediately undermine and subvert once in office. That's a powerful lesson we should remember whenever discussing future initiatives.

How do you know regions have made it abundantly clear they do not support such service? Just because certain politicians are against it doesn't mean the region is necessarily against it. If they were to flat out vote no on a referendum for service you might have an argument. Even in Ohio just because you vote for Kasich doesn't necessarily mean you're anti train. As much as any of us love trains I would find it hard to believe trains are your #1 issue in electing someone or a deal breaker. I would think there are a lot of different issues to consider when choosing a governor, president, mayor, senator, etc.

I would like to believe that if two populations are roughly equal and have the same level of train service they should have the same amount of interest and ridership. Sure there are other factors (economic level, other options, etc) but I tend to believe that if you build them, they will come.

 

[A Voice]

The one thing I have never understood (and will probably never understand) is why we keep entertaining the idea of bringing passenger rail back to regions that have made it abundantly clear that they do not support such service. I believe our focus and our energy should be spent on making genuinely pro-rail areas as fast and efficient and enjoyable as possible. Maybe rope in some nearby neutral areas as well when it makes sense. I honestly believe that trying to sell passenger rail to a hostile region where mass transit is seen as a socialist attack on conservative values only serves to impede our primary directive. Obama's early missteps on passenger rail funding ended up giving anti-rail politicians like Scott Walker something tangible to run against and a project they could immediately undermine and subvert once in office. That's a powerful lesson we should remember whenever discussing future initiatives.

Which region(s) are these which "have made it abundantly clear" they neither support nor seek rail passenger service, and what criteria are you using to make this determination? As already noted by Philly Amtrak Fan, you cannot judge the desire or need for transit options based on the ideology of political representatives; We've seen time and again the "grass roots" public desire for passenger rail stymied by the lack of leadership and responsiveness of legislatures (Congress) and the executive branch (U.S. President).

If you are defining "support" as service funded by the states (regions), that idea is a non-starter for interstate service which is properly the domain of the federal government. Very, very few persons actually view mass transit as a "socialist" agenda, but on the contrary, there is abundant ignorance of the utility, purpose, and proper function of passenger rail. Lacking an accurate and full understanding, people tend to think new trains should be "high-speed rail" or nothing, when that generally isn't what the country needs. If we had a dollar for every person who had uttered the wholly mistaken myth that "passenger trains make sense in urban areas where they can compete with airplanes" we could restore the Amtrak routes.

 

[railgeekteen]

Floridan would be my choice.

 

[railiner]

Hmmmn....obviously Philly Amtrak Fan did not start this poll....I see a glaring omission in the choices available....

 

[Lonestar648]

My first choice is not listed, "The Broadway Ltd.", but of the options listed, I would use the Desert Wind the most.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

My first choice is not listed, "The Broadway Ltd.", but of the options listed, I would use the Desert Wind the most.

It isn't listed because the poll originated in 2003 and at the time the Broadway's successor, the Three Rivers, was still running.

 

[railiner]

Didn't notice that....then next choice obviously must be the National Limited....

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Terre Haute, Indiana!!

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

 

[dlagrua]

I could not get the vote in but the Floridian was my choice. Outside of the NE and mid Atlantic Florida is largely disconnected from the US passenger rail system. If you wish to go the Midwest or West you must take an overnight to WAS or PHL, then an additional overnight to CHI and a third or forth overnight going West. This is impractical as it is expensive. A one seat overnight trip to CHI is what Florida needs. IIRC the trip was about as long as the Cardinal but is was a one seat ride. The discontinuance of that route was a huge mistake. That may have been done during the Carter years when numerous routes bit the dust.

 

[CCC1007]

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

I wasn’t aware that sandpoint was no longer in Idaho.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[jis]

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

I wasn’t aware that sandpoint was no longer in Idaho.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

I think he meant the really populated part of Idaho, such as it is

 

[dlagrua]

Ok, Broadway Limited, or thru cars Cap Ltd. to Pennsylvanian.

Service through Idaho. The old schedules of the Pioneer weren't great, and it was 3 per week, which probably greatly helped in its demise.

Could I also mention the Hilltopper?

I wasn’t aware that sandpoint was no longer in Idaho.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

I think he meant the really populated part of Idaho, such as it is

Yes, the loss of passenger service by the Pioneer to Boise, ID was probably what he was referring to. AFAIK the station and tracks are still there.

 

[Northeastern292]

Every route discontinued since 1971 (taking into account track abandonments since then).

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Was there a train years ago that came down from the north and went along Florida's west coast? If so, I'd love to see that one restored. (Or a new one created along that route.)

 

[railgeekteen]

Was there a train years ago that came down from the north and went along Florida's west coast? If so, I'd love to see that one restored. (Or a new one created along that route.)

The tracks there are a bit iffy.