Discrimatory treatment?

[Linda E.]

On Wednesday, June 29 I witnessed a really disturbing situation in the Amtrak terminal in Union Station, Chicago, IL. A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane arrived two hours early for a 1:00pm train to Milwaukee. They seated themselves at the very front of the que and requested red cap service (a cart to take them to the train since they were physically unable to walk out there). When boarding began no red cap came for them, so everyone else was loaded, and then they were informed the train was full and there was no time to get them out there. They were forced to wait another TWO HOURS for the next train for Milwaukee (the 3pm train). Several people in the que were outraged at this treatment and stepped forward on their behalf to no avail. This family was black (I am white) and they thought it was discriminatory treatment and said so. The Amtrak employee giving them a hassle was also black, so who knows, but it certainly reflected very badly on Amtrak! That employee should not have a job working with the public, since she is clearly incapable of providing even a minimal level of customer service.

I love riding the train and usually have a very good experience with Amtrak employees, especially the ones on the trains. But those folks in Chicago need some oversight and training. Amtrak will surely lose customers if they don't resolve that situation.

I am copying this and sending it directly to the President of Amtrak, so let's see if it actually gets posted here.

 

[had8ley]

On Wednesday, June 29 I witnessed a really disturbing situation in the Amtrak terminal in Union Station, Chicago, IL. A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane arrived two hours early for a 1:00pm train to Milwaukee. They seated themselves at the very front of the que and requested red cap service (a cart to take them to the train since they were physically unable to walk out there). When boarding began no red cap came for them, so everyone else was loaded, and then they were informed the train was full and there was no time to get them out there. They were forced to wait another TWO HOURS for the next train for Milwaukee (the 3pm train). Several people in the que were outraged at this treatment and stepped forward on their behalf to no avail. This family was black (I am white) and they thought it was discriminatory treatment and said so. The Amtrak employee giving them a hassle was also black, so who knows, but it certainly reflected very badly on Amtrak! That employee should not have a job working with the public, since she is clearly incapable of providing even a minimal level of customer service.

I love riding the train and usually have a very good experience with Amtrak employees, especially the ones on the trains. But those folks in Chicago need some oversight and training. Amtrak will surely lose customers if they don't resolve that situation.

I am copying this and sending it directly to the President of Amtrak, so let's see if it actually gets posted here.

I don't think your letter will get posted here as we are not affiliated with Amtrak. The only way would be for you to make a posting with the contents of the letter. I would also write the Federal Railroad Administration, Office of Civil Rights, but bear in mind this incident did not happen to you personally and the FRA is not too interested in third party complaints.

 

[Tumbleweed]

This is an example of when Americans need to stand up for each other! I commend the OP for taking action! I hope the employer is able to gather sufficient information to take necessary action......including at least a letter of apology to the family affected.....

 

[chandj]

Several years ago I traveled via train across Canada with my mother-in-law who was confined to a wheelchair. It was my first time traveling with someone who had serious mobility issues and I quickly found out how important it is to get assistance when you need it. I am sorry the family you posted about didn't get timely service in Chicago.

As to whether or not it was discrimination I, of course, have no facts, but that never stops me from having an opinion. I image the lack of proper attention and service was more likely a result of just a screw-up or a lack of resources.

 

[Trogdor]

This is clearly a bad incident, unfortunate for the family involved. Someone screwed up somewhere. However, just because the family was black (or disabled, or anything) doesn't automatically make it discrimination. The fact that the agent was also black makes it even less likely that discrimination was the issue. Forgetfulness on the part of the agent? Maybe. Incompetence? Perhaps. Lack of overall care for his/her job? Possibly. Discrimination? Not likely.

If you are inclined to write Amtrak about the incident, by all means do so. But, unless you really have some reason to believe that there was a specific discriminatory act, don't play the discrimination card. It gets played often enough for nonsense issues that have nothing to do with discrimination and that waters down the cases against real discrimination that actually does happen.

 

[Rail Freak]

This is clearly a bad incident, unfortunate for the family involved. Someone screwed up somewhere. However, just because the family was black (or disabled, or anything) doesn't automatically make it discrimination. The fact that the agent was also black makes it even less likely that discrimination was the issue. Forgetfulness on the part of the agent? Maybe. Incompetence? Perhaps. Lack of overall care for his/her job? Possibly. Discrimination? Not likely.

If you are inclined to write Amtrak about the incident, by all means do so. But, unless you really have some reason to believe that there was a specific discriminatory act, don't play the discrimination card. It gets played often enough for nonsense issues that have nothing to do with discrimination and that waters down the cases against real discrimination that actually does happen.

Well Said!!!!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Since I was not there it's hard for me to comment on your specific situation. However, if you feel the service was poor enough to warrant a formal complaint I would both mail and fax your letter and call customer service. Mailing alone rarely seems to have any obvious impact, including even something as trivial as a reply.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the red cap simply forgot. It has happened to me as well and I'm white. So let's forget the "discimination" word.

The red cap who hasseled them was probably reacting to those several people who "were outraged and stepped forward".

I'd give the red cap the benefit of the doubt and figure he forgot. I don't know how I'd react if "several people stepped forward" against me, but I'd wager his behavior was simply a reaction. Not a very good reaction, but just a reaction.

I have to wonder how you would have handled it?????

 

[Gabbytony]

In as much as a majority of train employees, especially in Chicago are black, I don't think this was a case of race. EVERYTIME a black person is not happy or accommodated it isn't always racist.

 

[Steve4031]

It may not be discrimination. But it is incompetence. It is also typical of of Chicago's Amtrak operations. They usually are disorganized and don't communicate. And they usually are rude to the passengers.

This was inexcusable at any level. The letter should be sent and the redcap should be disciplined. The people involved did there due diligence in arriving early. They should have been accompodated.

 

[DivMiler]

I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the red cap simply forgot. It has happened to me as well and I'm white. So let's forget the "discimination" word.

Why? Discrimination does not necessarily deal with color or race. Some of the people involved were disabled (blind) and some were elderly. Discrimination against the disabled or the elderly does exist.

So, please let's not "forget the 'discrimination' word."

However, it does seem that the redcap did forget.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the red cap simply forgot. It has happened to me as well and I'm white. So let's forget the "discimination" word.

Why? Discrimination does not necessarily deal with color or race. Some of the people involved were disabled (blind) and some were elderly. Discrimination against the disabled or the elderly does exist.

So, please let's not "forget the 'discrimination' word."

However, it does seem that the redcap did forget.

Discrimination is a word that has been overused to the point where it has become a crutch for too many people. I have to admit that I probably do discriminate, but only against people who use the word discrimination every time they feel they have been slighted.

 

[Henry Kisor]

That is a disturbing story indeed, and it should be explored.

But we should remember there are two sides to every story and sometimes even more.

Amtrak Chicago has a little anteroom for passengers with disabilities. Redcaps pick them up there and take them to the trains in carts. It's not apparent why the party did not go to the room for PWDs rather than take up station at the head of the regular line for the train. Maybe they did not know about it. Did they tell the Amtrak personnel at the gate of their disabilities when they arrived? Or did they just sit down and expect to be taken care of right away? What else was going on? (If it was a full train then possibly the atmosphere could have been madhouse.)

I am a PWD myself and have never had an outrageous experience in Chicago Union Station. Occasionally Amtrak agents will be a little overzealous and try to do for me what I can do for myself, but they are just trying to be helpful, and I cannot stay irritated with them.

A couple of times I had an unpleasant experience on the train with on-board crew, but those incidents are long in the past and were never repeated. I do believe Amtrak has tried hard to educate its personnel about PWDs.

 

[Guest]

In as much as a majority of train employees, especially in Chicago are black, I don't think this was a case of race. EVERYTIME a black person is not happy or accommodated it isn't always racist.

If anything with the majority of Amtrak employees being black I would expect any racism to be directed to white people. Just about every time I ride the train I see at least one black Amtrak employee giving much better service to black customers than they do to white customers. These people are everywhere though. I used to work with a black lady who would blatantly treat black customers well and white customers horribly. They couldn't fire her because they knew the first thing she would do is claim racism and right after that claim sexism (she tried to play the race card on me one time but my boss knew better).

 

[Trogdor]

Amtrak Chicago has a little anteroom for passengers with disabilities.

That is true of the south boarding gates, where most Amtrak trains board. However, the Hiawatha Service (the train in question here) and Empire Builder leave out of the north gates, where the priority area is just the front of the regular line.

As for the debate over the meaning over the word discrimination. Without looking it up, I'd define discrimination as treating a person or group differently because of some identifiable characteristic about that person or group.

The key, however, is that the different treatment has to be because of said characteristic.

If I go into a restaurant wearing blue socks, and everyone else is wearing socks that aren't blue, and they get my order wrong or I have to wait longer for service, can I claim that they are discriminating against people with blue socks? Would I have been treated any differently if I was wearing brown socks that day?

There are plenty of folks on here who think that certain people on the Chicago staff are equal opportunity offenders.

 

[Ryan]

This is clearly a bad incident, unfortunate for the family involved. Someone screwed up somewhere. However, just because the family was black (or disabled, or anything) doesn't automatically make it discrimination. The fact that the agent was also black makes it even less likely that discrimination was the issue. Forgetfulness on the part of the agent? Maybe. Incompetence? Perhaps. Lack of overall care for his/her job? Possibly. Discrimination? Not likely.

If you are inclined to write Amtrak about the incident, by all means do so. But, unless you really have some reason to believe that there was a specific discriminatory act, don't play the discrimination card. It gets played often enough for nonsense issues that have nothing to do with discrimination and that waters down the cases against real discrimination that actually does happen.

Well Said!!!!

I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the red cap simply forgot. It has happened to me as well and I'm white. So let's forget the "discimination" word.

Why? Discrimination does not necessarily deal with color or race. Some of the people involved were disabled (blind) and some were elderly. Discrimination against the disabled or the elderly does exist.

So, please let's not "forget the 'discrimination' word."

However, it does seem that the redcap did forget.

Discrimination is a word that has been overused to the point where it has become a crutch for too many people. I have to admit that I probably do discriminate, but only against people who use the word discrimination every time they feel they have been slighted.

I couldn't agree with these posts more...

 

[Henry Kisor]

Trogdor, do you mean that that anteroom for PWD is only for the south boarding gates? I thought it was for all Amtrak departures. (It's only a few steps from the north concourse.)

There are also priority areas for the south boarding gates as well. I've been directed to them because I'm a senior citizen.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

 

[PaulM]

There are also priority areas for the south boarding gates as well. I've been directed to them because I'm a senior citizen.

I think of this as a staging area or bullpen. At some point prior to boarding, they will invite BC, seniors, PWD, and those with children to leave the line or seats in the waiting room and proceed to the bull pen. Boarding comes shortly after that.

It's not a separate waiting area that you could head to, even if you meet the above criteria.

 

[Trogdor]

Trogdor, do you mean that that anteroom for PWD is only for the south boarding gates? I thought it was for all Amtrak departures. (It's only a few steps from the north concourse.)

There are also priority areas for the south boarding gates as well. I've been directed to them because I'm a senior citizen.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing (or maybe we are). There is a separate waiting area in the south boarding lounge that is used for people who need extra time boarding (as well as business class passengers). It's separated from the main coach waiting area.

On the north side, there is a row of seats right in front of the door to gate B that basically serves the same purpose. I can't remember if there is signage that limits those seats for seniors/persons with disabilities (I think so), but it's not a separate room from the north coach waiting area. It really is just the front of what would otherwise be the boarding line.

 

[rtabern]

On Wednesday, June 29 I witnessed a really disturbing situation in the Amtrak terminal in Union Station, Chicago, IL. A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane arrived two hours early for a 1:00pm train to Milwaukee. They seated themselves at the very front of the que and requested red cap service (a cart to take them to the train since they were physically unable to walk out there). When boarding began no red cap came for them, so everyone else was loaded, and then they were informed the train was full and there was no time to get them out there. They were forced to wait another TWO HOURS for the next train for Milwaukee (the 3pm train). Several people in the que were outraged at this treatment and stepped forward on their behalf to no avail. This family was black (I am white) and they thought it was discriminatory treatment and said so. The Amtrak employee giving them a hassle was also black, so who knows, but it certainly reflected very badly on Amtrak! That employee should not have a job working with the public, since she is clearly incapable of providing even a minimal level of customer service.

I love riding the train and usually have a very good experience with Amtrak employees, especially the ones on the trains. But those folks in Chicago need some oversight and training. Amtrak will surely lose customers if they don't resolve that situation.

I am copying this and sending it directly to the President of Amtrak, so let's see if it actually gets posted here.

The thing I don't totally buy here from this story is someone telling them the train to Milwaukee is "full". Either you got your story mixed up... or the employee in question was wrong. The Hiawatha train to Milwaukee is NEVER "full" because it's unreserved service. I have seen every seat taken before (usually the Saturday before Christmas when a lot of people from MKE go down to CHI for shopping) -- but they still let people stand if they want to. So, I don't get this "train is full" thing.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane.

I have seen every seat taken before (usually the Saturday before Christmas when a lot of people from MKE go down to CHI for shopping) -- but they still let people stand if they want to. So, I don't get this "train is full" thing.

Gee, I dunno, maybe the parts about "blind," "elderly." and "cane" have something to do with preventing continuous standing. Just a guess.

 

[Trogdor]

A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane.

I have seen every seat taken before (usually the Saturday before Christmas when a lot of people from MKE go down to CHI for shopping) -- but they still let people stand if they want to. So, I don't get this "train is full" thing.

Gee, I dunno, maybe the parts about "blind," "elderly." and "cane" have something to do with preventing continuous standing. Just a guess.

Then you direct them to the seats on the train that are reserved for seniors and persons with disabilities, and tell whoever is sitting in those seats (assuming they can) to stand, or find seats elsewhere.

 

[rtabern]

A family with a severely disabled and blind daughter, two elderly parents, and another daughter with a cane.

I have seen every seat taken before (usually the Saturday before Christmas when a lot of people from MKE go down to CHI for shopping) -- but they still let people stand if they want to. So, I don't get this "train is full" thing.

Gee, I dunno, maybe the parts about "blind," "elderly." and "cane" have something to do with preventing continuous standing. Just a guess.

Then you direct them to the seats on the train that are reserved for seniors and persons with disabilities, and tell whoever is sitting in those seats (assuming they can) to stand, or find seats elsewhere.

EXACTLY... Hell, when I went to Galesburg last weekend on a very packed #381 and back to Chicago on a very packed #382... I was asked to give up my single seat and move several times so couples (getting on at LaGrange Rd and Naperville) could sit together. I wasn't happpy about it really... but also didn't have a problem with that because I know a coach ticket means you are guaranteed a seat, not the seat you want necessarily. I am sure SOMEONE on the train would have given up their seat for the family you described... and if they didn't the conductors would have ordered it. I know most of the operating crews on the Hiawatha pretty well (we even get together off the train)... and I know that would have been the case.

I just can't fathom (and if it actually did happen than the employee should be fired or given a big repremand) them saying the Hiawatha is "full".

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just find it hard to believe. I live in the south burbs of Milwaukee with parents who live in Glenview and ride the Hiawatha ATLEAST once every 2 weeks (I have 13,000+ AGR Rail Points for this year alone) and NEVER, EVER, EVER in 8 years or riding heard someone deny access to the Hiawatha because it's "full".