Do you like the Amcans???

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.........................I concur that the small windows are a negative feature of these cars. IIRC, one of the other reasons for small windows was to present less of a target for rock throwers than the larger windows used on the vast majority of earlier passenger cars.
Gord
On the NEC in the 70's rock throwers were a major hazard. This led to the two-layer thermal window of Lexan outside and safety glass on the inside. However the Lexan quickly frosted in the atmosphere creating a terrible image (especially for sightseeing). Curiously someone at Amtrak discovered that when the Lexan was hit the flex tended to crack the safety glass anyway, so the sandwich was reversed.
 
The Cardinal would look strange all else being equal with or without the Amfleets. It's the Viewliner they stick on the rear. In my opinion, the biggest cars should be at the head end behind the locomotive. Even the Crescent looks slightly strange with the heritage baggage tossed in there between the p42s and the Viewliners.
 
Those of you who have not already done so, I suggest that you get hold of a copy of Issue 238 (2009:1) of the Passenger Train Journal. There is an excellent article on Amfleet starting on Page 24 of this issue. Also the editorial is on how Amfleets are the modern day P-70s. Very informative reading.

In addition there is a critique of the new VIA Canadian schedule which I substantially agree with. This article is also mentioned in the latest URPA Newsletter elsewhere on this forum. The article on St.Louis's new station is good too, as is the one on the reconstruction of LIRR's Queens Interlocking with new high speed (80mph) switches.
 
The Amfleets do not give up much headroom due to their rounded shape. They give up headroom for a much simpler reason: they are short. The Amfleet is 12'8" from the railhead. A standard Heritage car is about 13' 6" from the railhead. They are 10" shorter- and thus give up 10" of headroom.

Keep in mind what the Amfleet IS. The Amfleet is a Metroliner with the traction motors, transformers, and pantograph removed. They are basically de-engined multiple unit cars. Because they had to fit into the tunnels with the pantograph on top, just like the Silverliners and Arrows, they are shorter than standard rail cars.

They are also designed that way to reduce their aerodynamic cross section- which improves their overall drag coefficient. Very important at the 150 mph speeds the Metoliners were designed to run at.

Would it be reasonable to compare a SD90MAC against an HHP-8? The SD90MAC has less horsepower, nowhere near the top speed, much lower stability, and considerably slower acceleration. Naturally, the SD90MAC is inferior to the HHP-8, right? Of course not. The HHP-8 can haul a maximum of, I think, 12 cars. The SD90MAC can comfortably haul many times the weight that an HHP-8 can.

One was designed to move huge amounts of bulk at reasonably quick speeds, especially up grades. The other was designed to haul relatively short trains at 125 mph, which it does admirably.

We can try to compare the Superliner to the NJTransit Multilevel. The Superliner is extremely comfortable, and is equipped with tons of facilities. Water cooler, 5 bathrooms, 2 dressing rooms, exceptional legroom, extremely comfortable seats. But it's not superior to the Multilevel. The Multilevel has only one bathroom per two cars, no water cooler, no dressing rooms. Its seats don't recline.

Ah, but it holds 160 people, 85 more than the Superliner. The Superliner has one staircase and one manual door per car side. The Multilevel has 4 automatic doors per side and staircases at either end of the car. The Multilevel can detrain it's 160 passenger compliment twice as fast as the Superliner can detrain it's 70. They do different things. One is designed to carry 70 people for several days in reasonable comfort. The other is designed to carry as many people as possible for an average of 45 minutes.

Both the Amfleet Is and Amfleet IIs are exceptionally well designed cars- for what they were intended to do. The Amfleet I is a longer-distance variant of a commuter car. It has 2 automatic doors per side, holds 84 people, has two bathrooms, and comes with a simple food service center for snacks and light meals in one of its designs. They serve the needs of the Northeast Corridor and mid-west corridors admirably. They are good for runs with 20-30 minutes between stops- their trucks are somewhat limited in ride capability, but they are comfortable with high speeds and frequent stops and starts. That's what Amtrak bought them for, and they do the job as well as can be expected. When they are pressed into service on longer trains, they are doing a job they were never intended to do.

The Amfleet II was specifically designed to serve trains like the Carolinian, the Palmetto, the Vermonter, and the Adirondack. The seats are comfortable for rides of up to about 14 hours, the food service car is designed to provide some snacks, light meals, and decent tray meals. The windows are capable of decent views. Amtrak didn't have many good cars in this class when they ordered them, so they were intended to replace 60-seat heritage cars. Most of the heritage cars had bathroom-lounges far too large to comfortably space reasonable numbers of seats. When asked to do overnight runs, the Amfleets become less capable. They were never intended for that kind of work.

Amtrak's plans always called for a third order of single-level cars. The extensive size of the long-distance Heritage fleet compared to the need for it once the Superliners were delivered meant Amtrak was not in desperate need for long-distance single-level equipment. When the Amfleet IIs they had a pool of about 100 Budd-built coaches less than 25 years old that seated less than 60 people and were intended for overnight use. And 356 such cars less than 35 years old. They didn't need to replace them quite yet. They also had 50 Budd diners, and 132 Budd sleepers less than 35 years old, and over 100 lounge cars compatible with Penn Station.

The original Amtrak car ordering plan called for ordering something along the line of the Viewliners, in coach, dining, lounge, baggage, and of course, sleeper configuration. In fact, the original Viewliner plan, outlined before the Viewliner design was even laid out, was for 35 diners, 35 lounge cars, 35 baggage dorms, 100 sleepers, and 150 coach cars. Orders were expected to be placed by 1990, with the whole fleet in service by '95. Amtrak made the mistake of assuming they would continued to receive the level of support that gave them the Amfleets and Superliners. And that's why we are in the bind we are in today.
 
Those of you who have not already done so, I suggest that you get hold of a copy of Issue 238 (2009:1) of the Passenger Train Journal. There is an excellent article on Amfleet starting on Page 24 of this issue. Also the editorial is on how Amfleets are the modern day P-70s. Very informative reading.
In addition there is a critique of the new VIA Canadian schedule which I substantially agree with. This article is also mentioned in the latest URPA Newsletter elsewhere on this forum. The article on St.Louis's new station is good too, as is the one on the reconstruction of LIRR's Queens Interlocking with new high speed (80mph) switches.
Looks like one has to order issues directly from the publisher (or just subscribe)? I've called around to the area hobby stores and the largest independent bookstores, and none of them carries PTJ.

What's the general breakdown of PTJ content (current versus historical, North American versus elsewhere)? Just trying to get a sense of what I'd get if I subscribed.
 
...Looks like one has to order issues directly from the publisher (or just subscribe)? I've called around to the area hobby stores and the largest independent bookstores, and none of them carries PTJ.
What's the general breakdown of PTJ content (current versus historical, North American versus elsewhere)? Just trying to get a sense of what I'd get if I subscribed.
You can order back issues directly from Whiteriver Productions, the publisher of PTJ. At the website you can also look at the contents of recent issues to see if the subjects work for you.

Passenger Train Journal
 
I get all PTJ's for free because I know El Simon he lives right up the street from me. I read the article about a month ago and I loved it. The pictures are great! My personal favorite is the one of the Amcan in Harrisburg. Because it show the current interior. I showed it to my girlfriend who has NEVER been on a Amtrak train and I figured I'd show it to her because I'm taking her home to the Boston area in April on a NE Regional. So I figured it's a good idea to show her the pictures that would give her a general idea of what to expect. She's a little nervous but she looks forward to it.

Stephen
 
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