Does anyone know the status of the Caltrans Comet IB cars?

[roadman3313]

California Cars run out of the Oakland Maintenance Facility. "Surfliner" cars run out of both the Oakland Maintenance Facility (New Series) and Los Angeles Yard (Original Surfliner and New Series).

California Cars have the upstairs version of the California Cafe. Surfliner cars have a downstairs version of either the California Cafe (Northern California) or Seaside Cafe (Southern California).

 

[rickycourtney]

Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.
IIRC (and I may not), currently:

- California uses "California car" bilevels on the San Joaquins and Capitol Corridor

- California uses "Surfliner" and "California Car" bilevels *and* Amfleets *and* borrowed rebuilt Superliner bilevels on the Pacific Surfliner

I believe California wanted to get a fleet of all Surfliners/California Cars on the Pacific Surfliner.

Now, these rebuilt "Comet IB" cars, along with NPCUs and Horizon cafes, will be going on the San Joaquins.

So what exactly is the equipment cascade? Do the San Joaquin bilevels go to the Pacific Surfliner to replace the Amfleets? Then where do the Amfleets go? How about the Superliner cars? Does anyone know?

I'm fairly certain that the California Cars are not in use on the Surfliner service. These cars, the first batch that arrived, have the cafe on the upper level, and every Surfliner car set in SoCal has the same cafe arrangement.

It's insanely confusing that Amtrak calls these the "surfliner cars" and the "california cars."

The so-called "california cars" are numbered in the 8000's. They were built in 1996 by Morrison-Knudsen

The "surfliner cars" are numbered in 6000's They were built in 2000 & 2002 by Alstom.

As I understand it:

The Pacific Surfliner uses the 6000 series cars painted in the blue and silver livery

The San Joaquin & Capitol Corridor use the 8000 series cars but they also use some 6000 series cars (about a dozen), all are painted in the dark blue and gold livery.

I haven't heard where the 6000/8000 series cars will be re-assigned with the 5000 series Comet cars arrive. I was under the impression they were going to stay in Northern/Central California. The 5000 cars were going to be used to on the less busy SJ runs... and the other SJ/CC trains would recieve extra cars to increase capacity.

On a side note: with the midwest getting their own fleet of bi-livel intercity cars Amtrak should REALLY think about re-naming these cars (Superliner Regional I, II & III or Superliner Intercity I, II & III?)

 

[Blackwolf]

On a side note: with the midwest getting their own fleet of bi-livel intercity cars Amtrak should REALLY think about re-naming these cars (Superliner Regional I, II & III or Superliner Intercity I, II & III?)

They may or may not "officially" rename them (actually, are the California/Surfliner monikers really official?) but I can promise you they are forever coined "California" cars. Much like the NPCU's are "Cabbages", AEM-7's are "Toasters", Amfleets are "AmCans" and so-on.

 

[calwatch]

There is a full fact sheet with more details in the San Joaquin JPA agenda packet - http://acerail.com/Libraries/SJJPA/Complete_SJJPA_May_2013_Packet.sflb.ashx

 

[roadman3313]

Thanks! June '13 eh... Sounds like they will need to send a lot more cars over and do more public out reach if they expect that to happen!

 

[X]

actually, are the California/Surfliner monikers really official?

Yes.

It varies depending on where you look, but the the California cars are "California Intercity Cars" or "CALTRANS Intercity Cars", "California Car" being the de facto term.

The Surfliners were originally "San Diegans" / "San Diegan Intercity Cars" , then renamed along with the service.

 

[X]

Thanks! June '13 eh... Sounds like they will need to send a lot more cars over and do more public out reach if they expect that to happen!

The next Comet and first Horizon (Food Service) are supposed to be leaving Chicago any day now*.

That said, expect Amfleets to be in the mix if a single level set actually starts running in June.

*Amtrak (Beech Grove) time is not known to have any correlation to actual time

 

[roadman3313]

Well it sounds like it might be possible at the end of June... I'd assume testing and training would have to occur first as well as some public PR... Would result in some operational changes as well Id assume. Not sure how cars will be rotated around but I assume California Coaches would be added to the San Joaquin and 35001 and 35005 (feel free to correct numbers) would be given back to Amtrak and two of the 80xx cars would go from San Joaquin to Capitol Corridor operations?

 

[rickycourtney]

Well it sounds like it might be possible at the end of June... I'd assume testing and training would have to occur first as well as some public PR... Would result in some operational changes as well Id assume. Not sure how cars will be rotated around but I assume California Coaches would be added to the San Joaquin and 35001 and 35005 (feel free to correct numbers) would be given back to Amtrak and two of the 80xx cars would go from San Joaquin to Capitol Corridor operations?

From the document it sounds like the other San Joaquin consists will have extra coaches added. It makes since, considering some of the runs can approach being standing room only.

Frankly I didn't know that Caltrans was leasing café cars from Amtrak... I've never seen the Superliner snack coaches on the San Joaquin (but I doubt they would put them in the consist because of the longer run.)

The next Comet and first Horizon (Food Service) are supposed to be leaving Chicago any day now*.
That said, expect Amfleets to be in the mix if a single level set actually starts running in June.

*Amtrak (Beech Grove) time is not known to have any correlation to actual time

Well right on cue... TheOther train forum has pictures of a Horizon Dinette and Comet IB coach in the Amtrak California livery heading west today on 5(23).

 

[rickycourtney]

What I find strange is that in the August 2012 presentation... Caltrans said these cars would have a bike

rack installed (near the wheelchair space.) But fast-forward to today and these cars aren't being delivered with bike racks and now I'm hearing rumblings that all bikes will have to be stored in the baggage area of the NPCU.

So does anyone know the real story?

Will these cars have not have bike racks... or will they be installed at the Oakland shops before they go into service?

 

[Agent]

Here's all 62 axles of Amtrak #5(23) passing through Agency, Iowa with the Horizon dinette and Comet coach. There's also an extra bonus in the private Pullman Suitsme on the end.

 

[Ryan]

Wow, that's a lot of train.

 

[roadman3313]

The Coach Cars should be redistributed to the San Joaquin as you mentioned. They are a much needed relief to some trips which are over-crowded or Sold Out.

The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.

 

[Agent]

Another train enthusiast also caught #5(23) earlier in nearby Fairfield, Iowa. He filmed the other side of the train (in HD).

 

[Blackwolf]

The close similarities between the Horizon and Comet cars will make for a relatively uniform train appearance. I like this, as it sends a professional image, instead of the garish contrast you get when an AmCan is thrown in the mix.

 

[X]

What I find strange is that in the August 2012 presentation... Caltrans said these cars would have a bikerack installed (near the wheelchair space.) But fast-forward to today and these cars aren't being delivered with bike racks and now I'm hearing rumblings that all bikes will have to be stored in the baggage area of the NPCU.

So does anyone know the real story?

Will these cars have not have bike racks... or will they be installed at the Oakland shops before they go into service?

It's complicated...

No bike racks in the coaches, at least for the short term.

 

[X]

The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.

Yes, 35003 and 35005 are a royal pain for the LSAs and Commissary, and lack the storage space needed for the San Joaquins, so are only ever on them as a last resort. The Surfliner Cafes are much more friendly, but still lack the storage necessary for the SJs. That's not the reason you only see them (6361 & 6362) on 4 car trains, however.

 

[rickycourtney]

It's complicated...

I'm curious to know what changed. PM me if you must.

 

[roadman3313]

The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.

Yes, 35003 and 35005 are a royal pain for the LSAs and Commissary, and lack the storage space needed for the San Joaquins, so are only ever on them as a last resort. The Surfliner Cafes are much more friendly, but still lack the storage necessary for the SJs. That's not the reason you only see them (6361 & 6362) on 4 car trains, however.

I figure the set-up is for each consist to have 4 cars worth of coach seating whether that be Cab/Coach/Baggage/Bike, Coach, California (Upstairs) Cafe, Coach, Coach(Baggage), Loco, or Cab/Coach/Baggage/Bike, Surfliner Cafe/Coach (Downstairs)/Superliner Cafe/Coach (Downstairs), Coach, Coach, Loco.

The consist I never liked was a 4-car consist with an upstairs cafe on train 715 on the weekend. This happened to me twice. Both times there was not enough seating for everyone as only 3 of the cars had coach seating so Conductors had to start seating people in the Cafe Car itself with baggage. While this consist shares with the lighter used Sacramento runs, it also turns from/to one of the busiest runs to/from Oakland. I assumed that there was a BO car cut out or a shortage but it was a serious mess with people arguing over seats and complaining. I usually take one of the single seats in the 80xx coach cars to try to get a little solitude from the madness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those seats also slightly wider than the standard coach seats in the car? I do know the two tray tables are handy as well

Is there also one Superliner hanging around in a consist as well (behind the Locomotive) that isn't used as a cafe? Figure that may go back to Amtrak full-time as well once the Comet Cars come in.

 

[Agent]

I caught Amtrak #5(24) this evening and it surprised me with the NPCU cabbage car AMTK 90200 on the end. Is this also going to be part of the single level set on the San Joaquin? I think it could help the backup move into Denver Union Station at least.



Fun facts: 90200 is former AMTK 200 which was the very first F40PH made. It made its last revenue run as a locomotive on the California Zephyr 16 years and 2 months ago on March 15, 1997.

 

[rickycourtney]

It sounds like this NPCU will be cut-off in Denver and be attached to ACS-64 #600 which is making it's way to the test track in Pueblo.

If the roster on On Track On Line is correct... it appears that the NPCU's Caltrans has leased are 90215, 90218 (already in OAK) & 90225.

 

[AlanB]

It's complicated...

I'm curious to know what changed. PM me if you must.

Guests cannot send PM's Ricky, so don't expect a response that way.

 

[AlanB]

I caught Amtrak #5(24) this evening and it surprised me with the NPCU cabbage car AMTK 90200 on the end. Is this also going to be part of the single level set on the San Joaquin? I think it could make the backup move into Denver Union Station at least.

The engineer would not be able to use 90200 for the backup move. The Superliner cars have no MU cables and therefore the NPCU cannot control the engine on the other end.

No doubt the conductor can and will use the NPCU and it's mushroom (emergency brake button) during the backup move in lieu of holding the brake hose like normal at the rear car. But that is the extent of the NPCU's abilities on this train.

 

[rickycourtney]

So I read through the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority report (hat tip to Calwatch for posting that).
Since there appears to be some interest/confusion about these cars I thought I’d summarize the highlights of the report (there's some new info here along with some old but interesting info):

The 14 Comet IB cars were purchased from New Jersey Transit for $75,000 each. The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans/CDTX) paid $1.4 million per car to have them refurbished at Amtrak’s Beech Grove shops.

Many of the systems (HVAC, brakes, couplers, etc.) have been rebuilt or replaced with Amtrak standard systems.
The power side doors are gone and have been replaced with manual dutch doors with traps.
The 3x2 vinyl commuter seats are also gone and have been replaced by Amtrak’s standard 2x2 inter-city seats (that recline unlike the seats on the 8000-seres California Cars.)
Each Comet car will seat 64 passengers (some around 6 tables in the center of the car) plus one space for a wheelchair to park. Each seat pair will have 2 power outlets and the cars will have the AmtrakConnect WiFi system.
At the ends of the car an ADA-compliant restroom module has been installed, along with a luggage rack for large bags and Trash and recycle bins.
Despite being mentioned in an earlier report, it appears there will be no bike rack (Ed: although they could be added later.)

One of the Comet Car trainsets could go into service on the San Joaquin as early as June 2013.

 

[calwatch]

The Division of Rail is pleased to announce that a remodeled Comet Car and Cab Control Car will be on display and available for viewing before and after tomorrow’s SJVRC meeting in Sacramento. The cars will be located on the Sacramento Museum rail track located behind the Sacramento Rail museum.

The meeting is at 1 pm May 31 at the Rail Museum and is a good opportunity to check it out.