Dogs and Senior Dudes

[zepherdude]

The last time this topic was posted was around 10/29/2010 with almost 10,000 hits and bunches of responses and some normal bickering.

I bring this up only because I saw this event today. Sunday is my trainspotting day. The Coast Starlight arrives into EUG, on time, at 1244 on its way to PDX. I like watching the train come in and BS with the Conductor, who has never turned down a pork chop in his life, same conductor every Sunday. Same conversation every Sunday, "Take me with you," I say, he says, "Buy a ticket". We have a nice moment!

I am not watching any one particular event, just everything, when a dog comes into my view taking a big drink from a local deep puddle near me. NO leash. This is an old dog, a dear family retainer and a good boy. The train horn sounds, back to the train when a senior man says, lets go Shannon. The senior dude is faster than the dog, he boards, a couple of other folks and finally Shannon who can hardly make it up the yellow step onto the Superliner rear car. All this was done in front of the Conductor, who closes the door after Shannon boards. (all this time Shannon was not on a leash)

So, I could not get to the Conductor who was now dealing with a huge loss of air pressure to ask about Shannon. No problems and the train is gone.

So, after all the discussion about dogs on-board, did, Shannon have a ticket? a stow away? allowed by the system to ride the train or a trained service animal? remember, no leash and Shannon was the one that needed a walker. This was coach and looked quite crowded.

I bring this up only because of all the discussion the last time. Shannon had to pass the ticket counter, the ticket lift agent, one or more conductors and maybe the Amtrak Police or worse yet, the dreaded dog dectectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has Amtrak softened its pet policy and now allows the pet parade? I think its great. A true family vacation!

 

[Gingee]

I wish you could take dogs on the train but gad, where would they do their business?

 

[Dan O]

Would Amtrak be liable if a dog, or any other pet, bit some other traveler on the train?

Just wondering since it appears more than service animals travel on Amtrak.

Dan

 

[jim hudson]

Last two LD trains (Sunset Ltds. #1/#2) Ive been on had pax with lap dogs (small pet type mutts), they were carried on/off the train by their owners in front of the Conductor/AC. Nothing was said by anyone, never saw where the dogs went, they were in a different car from me! (Coach) Im wondering if the policy is slowly changing since this seems to be happening all over???

 

[rrdude]

It's conceivable that the dog could have been a service canine. Some dogs are trained for all kinds of work:

Service Dog is the catch all term for any dog that helps a physically or mentally disabled person. You have the following catagories:

Mobility Assist Dog: Pulls a person's wheelchair, carries things in a backpack, picks up things a person drops, opens/closes doors, helps the handler get dressed or undressed.

Walker Dog: Helps the handler walk by balancing or acting as a counter balance. Does many of the tasks that the Mobility Assist Dog does.

Seizure Alert/Response Dog: This dog is trained to respond to a person's seizures and either stay with the person, or go get help. Some dogs are trained to hit a button on a console to automatically dial 911. When the dog hears the voice over the speaker, the dog starts barking. The disabled person would have arranged that the system is dog activated.

Psychiatric Service Dog: A person with a mental disability may need a dog to be able to go out in public (agraphobic), or may be autistic and need the dog to keep them focused. These dogs are trained NEVER to leave their handler's side. For more information on tasks that a dog can do, go to the IAADP PSD Info page.

SsigDog: A dog trained to assist a person with autism. The dog alerts the partner to distracting repetitive movements common among those with autism, allowing the person to stop the movement (e.g., hand flapping). A person with autism may have problems with sensory input and need the same support services from a dog that a dog might give to a person who is blind or deaf.

Combo Dog: Some programs, Paws With A Cause, for example, have started training dogs for people with multiple disabilities, like a guide/mobility assist dog.

Also, "service animal" is the legal terms for ANY animal that assists someone who is disabled, therefore, a guide dog is also a service dog/animal.

 

[GiantsFan]

Any dog can be a service dog (technically speaking) ... long as you are up to paying for classes/certification.

 

[Guest]

Also, "service animal" is the legal terms for ANY animal that assists someone who is disabled, therefore, a guide dog is also a service dog/animal.

Yes, but most of the types you listed are not recognized as ADA service animals. And to add, a service animal cannot be a pet, and that's why most of the types you list aren't applicable (the animal is primarily a pet, providing companionship, and any assistance they might provide is secondary).

 

[MrFSS]

Shannon had to pass the ticket counter, the ticket lift agent, one or more conductors and maybe the Amtrak Police or worse yet, the dreaded dog dectectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The really important question is: Who in the world would name a dog Shannon?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

On a similar, but slightly different note, I have to ask: "Do the train crews ever deal with bad behavior?"

I ask because, the last two times I've been in coach, I've witnessed riders behaving badly and the crews - conductors, SAs and LSAs all - have turned a blind eye. First, there was a woman talking (shouting is more like it) into her cell phone for hours. Second, were the too 'bad dudes with a 'tude' who were playing rap music without earphones. Come to think of it, last summer my wife was in the Acela "quiet" car and she had some woman talking very loudly, and in a very self-important tone, into her cell phone for most of the trip between WAS and PHL, were my wife mercifully got off the train.

Maybe we need to take a hint from Mexico and have policemen armed with automatic weapons roaming the train. I've got to say, the trains in Mexico may be old and somewhat dirty, but I've actually found them quieter than my last two trips in coach....

 

[had8ley]

Shannon had to pass the ticket counter, the ticket lift agent, one or more conductors and maybe the Amtrak Police or worse yet, the dreaded dog dectectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The really important question is: Who in the world would name a dog Shannon?

My male chocolate lab named Napoleon :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Eric S]

On a similar, but slightly different note, I have to ask: "Do the train crews ever deal with bad behavior?"

I ask because, the last two times I've been in coach, I've witnessed riders behaving badly and the crews - conductors, SAs and LSAs all - have turned a blind eye. First, there was a woman talking (shouting is more like it) into her cell phone for hours. Second, were the too 'bad dudes with a 'tude' who were playing rap music without earphones. Come to think of it, last summer my wife was in the Acela "quiet" car and she had some woman talking very loudly, and in a very self-important tone, into her cell phone for most of the trip between WAS and PHL, were my wife mercifully got off the train.

Maybe we need to take a hint from Mexico and have policemen armed with automatic weapons roaming the train. I've got to say, the trains in Mexico may be old and somewhat dirty, but I've actually found them quieter than my last two trips in coach....

There are still passenger trains in Mexico?

 

[gmcguire]

Yes, but most of the types you listed are not recognized as ADA service animals.

I don't think this is true. According to the ADA's website: "The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government." The word "assistance" is pretty broad and doesn't seem to be limited to physical assistance.

My understanding is that you are allowed to ask, "Is this a service animal?" and "What services does it perform?" but that's about it (proof of certification is not required).

However, if the animal is problematic (growling, barking, urinating inappropriately, etc.), "You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others." (again from the website above). A tricky area, I would think, is people who are severely allergic to dogs/cats. Could they argue that the animal poses a health threat? I doubt it, but seems somewhat arguable.

 

[had8ley]

I've had trips where middle aged, or older, NEC female cell phone and tear up their husbands to the max~ four letter words included; then hang up enlighten the entire car as to how important that megaphone call was and enter into a new tirade of whatever they feel is important to them. I think I'd take a yippy dog sitting next to me in a basket and snoring over 5 minutes of one of these ladies of spite spitting fire and brimstone. :blush:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

My trips seem absolutely peaceful compared to some of y'all. I don't like sitting next to strangers without so much as an armrest between us for twelve hours (what were they thinking?) but I can't remember the last time I saw an unleashed dog or crazy pissed-off wife swearing up a storm.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Maybe we need to take a hint from Mexico and have policemen armed with automatic weapons roaming the train. I've got to say, the trains in Mexico may be old and somewhat dirty, but I've actually found them quieter than my last two trips in coach....

There are still passenger trains in Mexico?

Yes. It was about ten years ago, but I took the train through Barrancas del Cobre -- The Copper Canyon. It is an amazing train ride and a true feat of engineering. When I took it I think there was only one train a day. If there were two, I was on the 'local' and not the tourist train.

Check it out at: www.chepe.com.mx/

 

[had8ley]

My trips seem absolutely peaceful compared to some of y'all. I don't like sitting next to strangers without so much as an armrest between us for twelve hours (what were they thinking?) but I can't remember the last time I saw an unleashed dog or crazy pissed-off wife swearing up a storm.

Go hang around NYP for just a couple of hours... h34r:

 

[leemell]

Any dog can be a service dog (technically speaking) ... long as you are up to paying for classes/certification.

Ahh, here is the catch 22, you may not ask for the certification to prove the issue.

 

[Big Iron]

Shannon had to pass the ticket counter, the ticket lift agent, one or more conductors and maybe the Amtrak Police or worse yet, the dreaded dog dectectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The really important question is: Who in the world would name a dog Shannon?

Might not be a bad name for an Irish Setter.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Ahh, here is the catch 22, you may not ask for the certification to prove the issue.

Why not? Is there a law against it or did Amtrak simply paint themselves into a corner?

 

[amamba]

Ahh, here is the catch 22, you may not ask for the certification to prove the issue.

Why not? Is there a law against it or did Amtrak simply paint themselves into a corner?

I believe its part of the ADA regulations - because someone might have a disability that is not obvious to the naked eye. I think the point is that it protects their medical privacy.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Ahh, here is the catch 22, you may not ask for the certification to prove the issue.

Why not? Is there a law against it or did Amtrak simply paint themselves into a corner?

I believe its part of the ADA regulations - because someone might have a disability that is not obvious to the naked eye. I think the point is that it protects their medical privacy.

I did some minor research on my own and it looks like you can ask if they're service animals or whatever, but you can't actually do anything if they fail to produce any paperwork or just lie to you about the animals. It's ripe for abuse if you ask me. I never considered myself anti-ADA before, but it looks like the law has gone too far if it allows unscrupulous pet owners to pretend their conventional pets are service animals (which are actually exceedingly rare in my experience).

 

[gmcguire]

I did some minor research on my own and it looks like you can ask if they're service animals or whatever, but you can't actually do anything if they fail to produce any paperwork or just lie to you about the animals. It's ripe for abuse if you ask me. I never considered myself anti-ADA before, but it looks like the law has gone too far if it allows unscrupulous pet owners to pretend their conventional pets are service animals (which are actually exceedingly rare in my experience).

Well, remember that the dog has to be well behaved; if it is deemed dangerous or disruptive, it can be removed even if it is a valid service animal. According to the ADA website (see my previous post) this includes things like barking and urinating.

 

[alanh]

The main issue is that they never want to exclude a legitimate service animal. Some people abusing the system is unavoidable -- if you require too much proof, you're going to exclude a few legitimate cases.

 

[Shanghai]

Shannon had to pass the ticket counter, the ticket lift agent, one or more conductors and maybe the Amtrak Police or worse yet, the dreaded dog dectectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The really important question is: Who in the world would name a dog Shannon?

My male chocolate lab named Napoleon :lol: :lol: :lol:

My little Coton de Tulear is named Prince Archibald

 

[Shanghai]

My trips seem absolutely peaceful compared to some of y'all. I don't like sitting next to strangers without so much as an armrest between us for twelve hours (what were they thinking?) but I can't remember the last time I saw an unleashed dog or crazy pissed-off wife swearing up a storm.

Go hang around NYP for just a couple of hours... h34r:

Those people are either from Louisiana or Woodside!!