Don't Wait To Ask, Just Tell

[Oldsmoboi]

Agreed that adults who can't tolerate same-sex couples (e.g. at community seating) can go pound sand, or request another table. The onus shouldn't be on the couple.

That said, I'd urge some consideration when younger children are present at the same table. Sharing hash browns can easily be "explained away" to a young grade-schooler (kids do it all the time), but certain public displays of affection or direct references to husband or wife may raise uncomfortable questions from a child to a parent that the parent isn't yet prepared to answer.

I know that some believe that children should be taught to appreciate all lifestyles from an early age, but it isn't the child's fault if the parent chooses to defer certain discussions for a later age.

In my experience, it is the children who need the least amount of explaining to on the subject and are also the best behaved and most polite on average. I'm not trying to start a debate on it, but from multiple 1st and 3rd hand experiences, children have the best possible reaction to it unless their parents teach them to react badly. The typical response is some variation of this: "You married each other? That's funny! I'm going to go play ping pong now, you can come play if you want to." *

*direct quote

It's not sex ed, it is social ed.

That said, I'm not super overt in public anyway, but "yes dear" and "hun could you pass the ketchup" are normal parts of speech for me.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

slightly off topic but there was a TV show called what would you do. It featured hidden cameras and different situations. One was one guy got down on his knees and proposed with a ring in a public restaurant. I think allot of people got offended buy it before they knew it was a set up.Another featured a woman wanting to get a tuxedo and the clerk refused to sell it to her when her girlfriend came in. All a setup but it shows how people react to these type if things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primetime:_What_Would_You_Do%3F

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I've seen a few of the episodes and they trouble me. In a couple instances, the actor who was being paid to be the "offensive one" went too far over the top.

 

[Ryan]

Great idea for a thread- not something that I've ever considered, but it's cool to see that Amtrak is such a supportive employer.

I'm also surprised to see so many openly folks out in the open here (and glad to be part of a forum where people are that accepting).

As far as the kids go, we just ran across this with my stepson. The wife was watching one of those stupid wedding TV shows, which happened to be about two men getting married. Alexander said something to the effect of "You mean that two boys can get married"? My wife simply said that yes, that was what some people did. He said "Oh cool", and that was the end of it. If you don't make a big deal about it, the kids won't even realize that some people do (hopefully until much later).

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Ryan, that has been my exact type of experience with it. My husband has 6 nieces and nephews ranging from 5 to 17, For the younger ones at least, I've always just been part of the family, and I "go with" their Uncle Albert. We're a set. No explanation needed. For the older ones, I don't know if there were ever questions asked of their parents about it. It's just never been an issue.

 

[sportbiker]

A few years ago, four of us (two gay couples) did a Zephyr run from CHI to EMY. OBS treated us as we would expect to be treated. No, wait, I take that back. Some of the dining car attendants all but adopted us for the duration of the trip. But then, they were black women. You know what they say about the connection between black women and gay men… :lol:

 

[gatelouse]

slightly off topic but there was a TV show called what would you do. It featured hidden cameras and different situations. One was one guy got down on his knees and proposed with a ring in a public restaurant. I think allot of people got offended buy it before they knew it was a set up.Another featured a woman wanting to get a tuxedo and the clerk refused to sell it to her when her girlfriend came in. All a setup but it shows how people react to these type if things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primetime:_What_Would_You_Do%3F

In real life perhaps, but on the train, I think all will be treated well. LD passengers and crew are exposed and acclimated to interacting with a huge diversity of people. I remember having lunch with three folks from rural WV on a Superliner Cardinal and leaving with my stereotypes about Appalachians completely erased. Though I didn't fit in with them at all, they were all kind and engaging. I've seen train crews treat the frequent Amish travelers just like every other passenger--with rudeness. (Only kidding.)

Very good discussion, and thanks for the tips regarding kids. While I'm not completely sold on the idea that most kids will acknowledge and move on without concern--my little one is unusually persistent and inquisitive to anything different or new--it's the best approach I've heard so far.

 

[guest]

I've seen train crews treat the frequent Amish travelers just like every other passenger--with rudeness. (Only kidding.)

Now THAT'S funny!

Reminds me of a line that could be applied to SOME Amtrak employees:

"I'm not a racist, I hate everyone equally without regard to race, creed, color, gender or place of origin."

 

[Green Maned Lion]

There is nothing- NOTHING- worse then being uncomfortable with who you are- except people who work to make you more so.

 

[NE933]

Wow, I am truly amazed, in a very good way, about what I've just seen (i haven't been to a computer since late afternoon). My meds are working so will try to sound like it makes sense:

Thank you to Alan and the other administrators who initially saw a war breaking out and did the right thing of frezzing the topic, but after much careful conversation, took the risk of reopening it with sensible conditions. And what did we get? Several A.U. people came forward to reveal their joys and struggles with having same sex partners, with lots of inclusion. Sometimes it is assumed that gay men account for much of pedophile activity; in fact, I deplore these rapists who harm children. My 'adult' relations are with consentual adults; never the less, there is much more to my life: I am totally gaga googoo over Amtrak and self taught a proficient expertness on it. And I'm very big on existential stuff, and most of you see me weave these things into rail conversations as that's how i see the world and universe.

The meds are taking hold!!!! It's great to belong to such a caring group of civil minded people. I know some folks will cringe on thinking about how I and others get intimate, and that's ok. Just please, if I ever am blessed to find somebody and I want to hold his hand for a second or run my finger thru his hair, I hope you can be happy for us. And here's a kicker, there's a belief out there that gays are angry at straights. In fact, I am happy for anyone who is in good fortune to have an intimate bond with somebody else, straight or gay. When I see a hetero couple celebrating an anniversary, I am very happy for them and wish them eternal joy together with no hang ups or resentment, because all of us know that any relationship takes lots and lots of very hard work, and sometimes it works out, sometimes it crashes. We do the work because ultimately it's worth all the trouble. There's no greater joy than finding the right individual to share life with, the laughs and tears, the quiet and the noisy. Thanks once more for your patience.

Edited for clarity, content, fine tuning.

 

[AlanB]

I also feel good that I now know that we will both fit on the lower bed since we have six nights in total on trains and I can't wait.

Just to be clear, if you've booked a Bedroom in the sleeping car, then you can probably fit on the lower bed if you like. However, if you've booked a Roomette in the sleeping car, you'll find things very tight even if you're both very skinny.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

In my experience, it is the children who need the least amount of explaining to on the subject and are also the best behaved and most polite on average. I'm not trying to start a debate on it, but from multiple 1st and 3rd hand experiences, children have the best possible reaction to it unless their parents teach them to react badly.

Very well said. :hi:

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

That said, I'd urge some consideration when younger children are present at the same table. Sharing hash browns can easily be "explained away" to a young grade-schooler (kids do it all the time), but certain public displays of affection or direct references to husband or wife may raise uncomfortable questions from a child to a parent that the parent isn't yet prepared to answer.

I would find "public displays of affection" from even straight couple equally inappropriate. :wub:

I would not want some straight couple making out, on the other side of the dinner table from my family, while waiting for our salads. Such a sight could easily yield uncomfortable questions from my child.

 

[benjibear]

Making out would be inappropriate but I don't think certain public displays of affection are bad. An arm around, kiss on the cheek, holding hands, etc. would be OK for straight or gay couples. Deep kissing, groping, etc. would be inappropriate in the diner.

As far as kids, I just want to throw one more thing out. The traditional family (mother, father, marriage, kids) is not neccessarily the norm in today's world. In my wife's school, granted urban small city, there are very few kids that come from two parent married households. They don't get the concept of marriage and the traditional couple. They didn't understand when I was in that me and my wife are married, that is why we have the same last name (no we are not brother and sister), and we live in the same house.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

A few years ago, four of us (two gay couples) did a Zephyr run from CHI to EMY. OBS treated us as we would expect to be treated. No, wait, I take that back. Some of the dining car attendants all but adopted us for the duration of the trip. But then, they were black women. You know what they say about the connection between black women and gay men… :lol:

LOL! That's me with at least two of the dining car staff on the Cap. I feel like it's my grandmother doting over me.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

.. and I'm very happy and pleasantly surprised about the reaction around here. I know the moderators were watching, but I expected a bit of a battle.

 

[yarrow]

I would suggest that this topic has no more place here than someone using than someone using the site to look for people of like mind and practice in the realm of religion or politics.

just wanted to note that, for once, i agree with George

 

[NE933]

.. and I'm very happy and pleasantly surprised about the reaction around here. I know the moderators were watching, but I expected a bit of a battle.

Me too, but like I once told a friend: MOST of the time, people get into wars when they look for it. Don't look for it, look for peace or at least neutrality instead, and that's what you'll take home.

As for this topic, I wanted to engage anyone who cared to in discussion, maybe debate, not fights or battles. That's unhealthy, but debating and conversing uncovers solutions to problems, and it keeps us mentally sharp.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I would suggest that this topic has no more place here than someone using than someone using the site to look for people of like mind and practice in the realm of religion or politics.

just wanted to note that, for once, i agree with George

I disagree because it is a fact that gays and lesbians are still being treated disrespectfully by some segments of society simply for the mere fact that we exist. You may be unfamiliar with it, but the GLBT crowd still has discussions amongst ourselves as to which businesses we can or cannot frequent without being treated as forth class customers or with outright hostility directed towards us.

I am happy for the fact that my experiences on Amtrak, and the others reported here so far, have all been positive ones.

 

[jb64]

I would suggest that this topic has no more place here than someone using than someone using the site to look for people of like mind and practice in the realm of religion or politics.

just wanted to note that, for once, i agree with George

I disagree because it is a fact that gays and lesbians are still being treated disrespectfully by some segments of society simply for the mere fact that we exist. You may be unfamiliar with it, but the GLBT crowd still has discussions amongst ourselves as to which businesses we can or cannot frequent without being treated as forth class customers or with outright hostility directed towards us.

I am happy for the fact that my experiences on Amtrak, and the others reported here so far, have all been positive ones.

So that would be a discussion appropriate for that kind of forum (businesses friendly to GLBT), but has little to do with trains. I could care less what a person's preferences/orientation is, to be honest, so I don't judge one way or another but I also fail to see why this is an appropriate thread for a forum dedicated to trains and train travel. I agree with George and Yarrow. Maybe someone should start a Libertarians who like Amtrak thread ,after we have a Republicans who ride Amtrak and a Democrats who support Passenger Rail threads, of course. Who is going to start the Catholics on the rails thread?

 

[Ryan]

I would suggest that this topic has no more place here than someone using than someone using the site to look for people of like mind and practice in the realm of religion or politics.

just wanted to note that, for once, i agree with George

I disagree because it is a fact that gays and lesbians are still being treated disrespectfully by some segments of society simply for the mere fact that we exist. You may be unfamiliar with it, but the GLBT crowd still has discussions amongst ourselves as to which businesses we can or cannot frequent without being treated as forth class customers or with outright hostility directed towards us.

I am happy for the fact that my experiences on Amtrak, and the others reported here so far, have all been positive ones.

So that would be a discussion appropriate for that kind of forum (businesses friendly to GLBT), but has little to do with trains. I could care less what a person's preferences/orientation is, to be honest, so I don't judge one way or another but I also fail to see why this is an appropriate thread for a forum dedicated to trains and train travel. I agree with George and Yarrow. Maybe someone should start a Libertarians who like Amtrak thread ,after we have a Republicans who ride Amtrak and a Democrats who support Passenger Rail threads, of course. Who is going to start the Catholics on the rails thread?

Sorry, but I disagree with you, yarrow and George.
"How friendly is Amtrak to people of differing orientations" sounds perfectly appropriate to a forum dedicated to Amtrak. More importantly, the moderators feel that way as well.

So, if you're not interested in participating in such a discussion, you're not required to click on the thread.

Problem solved.

 

[the_traveler]

[Moderator's hat on]

I feel the last few posts were not really necessary. I know that some may disagree with the subject or discussion of the topic, but there is this little thing in the US Constitution called "Freedom of Speech". If the topic or discussion bothers you, do as Ryan suggests and not click in the thread! Even I many times do not click on threads that do not interest me.

You may disagree with the subject matter, but as in the voting booth, you are not required to vote or say anything.

And no, I am not gay. I just feel that everyone has the same rights.

You say this is not the right subject for AU?

How about if Amtrak puts out a press release stating "As of April 1, 2012, we will not hire any females, blacks, gays, lesbians, nor will we stop at any station with a population within 50 miles of more than 5% of such"? Would it then be appropriate for AU?

Let's please keep our comments on the subject in this thread only. You need not read the thread or respond if you think otherwise.

[Moderator's hat off]

 

[NE933]

[Moderator's hat off]

Couldn't have said it better myself, so my 'hat's off' to you, Traveler!

I like trains and guys; as long as people hate me for the guys part, I'll forever be on watching for the knife in my back they want to plunge in. They know who they are.

Now let's get on Amtrak to our dream place and get to work in building those new tracks, rail cars, locomotives, and let's not forget cooking up a masterpiece in the Indianpolis 8400 Diner.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I didn't bring up specific other businesses pro or against on purpose. The purpose of this thread is about Amtrak's relationship with GLBT riders and employees. There isn't a thread on the religious, ethnic, or racial relationship because those are protected classes that no company can discriminate against even if they wanted to (though I think there was a thread about the Amish).

Notice the shyness at how this thread was started. In most of this country is is still legal to fire, evict, or refuse service to a person based on real or perceived sexuality. It is highly encouraging to me that Amtrak has a strong stated policy against that sort of discrimination. It gives me just one more reason, amongst the many I already have, to support Amtrak.

Like it or not, GLBT passengers do still have a slightly different experience traveling on Amtrak. If you read back a bit, you'll see that my report of politely correcting a sleeping car attendant about the bedroom arrangements went over just fine and also reassured another future traveler about the bedroom accommodations with his partner. I primarily use Roomettes for Biz travel between Pittsburgh and Chicago and have shared my experience of cost-justifying it to my company.... it's just another story to share.

Isn't the point of AU to share our experiences? Isn't that what a sub-group of AU membership is doing here?

 

[jb64]

[Moderator's hat on]

I feel the last few posts were not really necessary. I know that some may disagree with the subject or discussion of the topic, but there is this little thing in the US Constitution called "Freedom of Speech". If the topic or discussion bothers you, do as Ryan suggests and not click in the thread! Even I many times do not click on threads that do not interest me.

You may disagree with the subject matter, but as in the voting booth, you are not required to vote or say anything.

And no, I am not gay. I just feel that everyone has the same rights.

You say this is not the right subject for AU?

How about if Amtrak puts out a press release stating "As of April 1, 2012, we will not hire any females, blacks, gays, lesbians, nor will we stop at any station with a population within 50 miles of more than 5% of such"? Would it then be appropriate for AU?

Let's please keep our comments on the subject in this thread only. You need not read the thread or respond if you think otherwise.

[Moderator's hat off]

I don't follow your logic at all; but since your "freedom of speech" only works one way and we are not allowed (since this message came from a moderator) to disagree or communicate that we disagree, I will not post any further on this subject. Happy rails to everyone, regardless of race, gender, age, religious belief, sexual preference, etc. etc. etc.