Metra Electric Rider
Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2016
- Messages
- 2,263
Wow! Neon (well, LED strip....)! Suspension Bridge!
Is that the new bay crossing?
Is that the new bay crossing?
Dreamstar overnight train between San Francisco and Los Angeles?
- Thread starter homersimpson101
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
Um, stations anyone?
frequentflyer
Conductor
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
Wasn’t this called the Spirit of California back in the 80s?
frequentflyer
Conductor
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
Not sure there Euro equipment that comes close to looking like this. Unless a Siemens set and covert to sleepers.
Caesar La Rock
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 721
According to this article here, the equipment they're using will be refurbished bi-level equipment. Whether that means the former ATSF Hi-level cars that Amtrak used I'm not sure, they could also be retired commuter coaches from elsewhere. It's not made clear.
https://qz.com/dreamstar-lines-luxury-train-los-angeles-san-francisco-1851402196
https://qz.com/dreamstar-lines-luxury-train-los-angeles-san-francisco-1851402196
cirdan
Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,886
Do the former ATSF bi-levels have any useful life left in them? I guess they were eliminated by Amtrak for a reason, and the many years of subsequent languishing in the open will not have improved them either.
OTOH modifying commuter equipment would entail a near total rebuild, at least for the sleeper cars.
The former Hi-Levels have even lower headroom than the Superliners, making it difficult to have any upper berths.
OTOH, their Budd-built stainless steel carbodies are probably fairly solid, but they would still need extensive rebuilding to convert to sleeping cars…
OTOH, their Budd-built stainless steel carbodies are probably fairly solid, but they would still need extensive rebuilding to convert to sleeping cars…
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Allow me to hypothesize a bit here. The Amtrak Roomette is a model of space efficiency for transporting a lot of passengers in mediocre sleeper comfort, but it is not a great design as far as luxury travel is concerned. Gallery style cars would not offer private rooms on their upper level, because of the basic layout, so that can't be it, either. Amtrak is surely not leasing Superliners to anybody, so that's out too. And refurbishing hi-levels is something for museums to do for low speed trips paid for only by rail nuts who will put up with it because of the nostalgia factor; its not how you launch a business with a realistic prospect of success at attracting anyone but rail fans. Yes, Budd cars last forever and can take quite a licking; which is why they have already taken a heck of a licking and lasted forever- no other quality of mainline equipment could have done what these have done, but everything wears out eventually and the Budd cars have.
If we eliminate these unlikely pieces of equipment, we get to a relatively cheaply available used equipment type that has a layout that can be converted to sleeping accomodations without bunks fairly reasonably: Bombardier Bi-Levels. Clearly this start up equipment is a temporary thing, given they seem to be dreaming about something really modern and European style. They need, in my opinion, three sets of equipment (one is dormant on any given day for heavy service and cleaning, the other turns same-day). If you want to get more than the rail-nut contingent it has to be fairly modern, comfortable, affordable, and above all reliable. If I was trying to build such a train, this is what I would do.
By the way, this is a slightly easier route than the Spirit- that started out in Sacramento; it got to Oakland at 21:40 and arrived LAX at 8:30, 10h 50m. Schedule this for a few hours over that, leaving at lets say 7:30 and advertised arrival at 8:45, and you'd have a pretty good chances at adequately on time arrivals, especially if you run pretty limited stops.
If we eliminate these unlikely pieces of equipment, we get to a relatively cheaply available used equipment type that has a layout that can be converted to sleeping accomodations without bunks fairly reasonably: Bombardier Bi-Levels. Clearly this start up equipment is a temporary thing, given they seem to be dreaming about something really modern and European style. They need, in my opinion, three sets of equipment (one is dormant on any given day for heavy service and cleaning, the other turns same-day). If you want to get more than the rail-nut contingent it has to be fairly modern, comfortable, affordable, and above all reliable. If I was trying to build such a train, this is what I would do.
By the way, this is a slightly easier route than the Spirit- that started out in Sacramento; it got to Oakland at 21:40 and arrived LAX at 8:30, 10h 50m. Schedule this for a few hours over that, leaving at lets say 7:30 and advertised arrival at 8:45, and you'd have a pretty good chances at adequately on time arrivals, especially if you run pretty limited stops.
I do agree that Dreamstar must have modern and comfortable equipment. Even if prices approach or go a little beyond the airline costs, I think it would still would be very popular. I do think, however, they need different classes of service.
https://is.gd/FnFnFN
Lie flat beds and Wi_Fi throughout the train. Queen beds and showers for premium class. Modern lounge cars and Ap-based ticket service. Sounds good if it isn't all just speculative.
https://is.gd/FnFnFN
Lie flat beds and Wi_Fi throughout the train. Queen beds and showers for premium class. Modern lounge cars and Ap-based ticket service. Sounds good if it isn't all just speculative.
west point
Engineer
With these comforts cannot imagine how few riders per car would be its capacity. Now imagine the fare required to make the car break even or even a profit.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Lie flat beds could mean a pod setup like the new Nightjets or a capsule hotel. That would work for economy class on dedicated night train like Dreamstar. One thing is for sure, if this happens at all it'll have years before it has to compete with CA HSR! 
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
If night trains truly develop a market then I doubt they will compete with day time HSRs. At least wherever night service has been successful they have not been at odds with daytime HSR, though it does seem counter intuitive in the first blush. But the pre-requisites for any rail service to be successful in the US has several other unknowns when compared to Asia and Europe as in the lack of a recent tradition of success at levels common elsewhere.Lie flat beds could mean a pod setup like the new Nightjets or a capsule hotel. That would work for economy class on dedicated night train like Dreamstar. One thing is for sure, if this happens at all it'll have years before it has to compete with CA HSR!
Caesar La Rock
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 721
We'll find out when more details come out. Regardless of what they've selected, it'll require some sort of complete rebuild in order to convert the cars into what they're advertising. Something that needs to be reaffirmed.
They're planning on using the trainsets at night, not everyday traveling the country daily in all kinds of weather like most of Amtrak's long distance trains do. So I imagine whatever equipment they have, will be subjected to far less abuse regardless of it's age.
Renderings envision private, luxury LA-San Francisco sleeper train - Trains https://search.app/XmTFgG9GULAD2PJR6
homersimpson101
Train Attendant
If the Dreamstar train is supposed to start from San Francisco, where would the station be? The Caltrain terminal, or are they expecting the city of San Francisco to build a new and dedicated long distance passenger station?
Aren't they planning to use old Hi-level cars? If so, goodluck getting them to look like that.
Probably going to use Caltrain's terminal or have a tiny platform elsewhere (maybe like Rocky Mountaineer in Denver?) I wouldn't expect anything grand from this.
Superliners and California Cars are both in very limited supply, and I doubt Amtrak and the State of California would be willing to give up their cars for a competing service. I also don't think equipment funded by us, for Amtrak service, should be used by a private company.
From what I understand they will use the Hi-Level cars, which are the Ex-ATSF cars that the superliners are derived from. They are shorter than the Superliners (slightly), so I'm curious how the sleeper arrangements will be, since they might be a bit tight.
I'm very doubtful and given what they've said so far I'd rather the state just run it themselves.
Its got to be hi-level or gallery ether way good luck and what an expense for 75 year old cars.
Any chance they would be importing used rolling stock from Europe or Asia?
How many "Hi-Level" cars are still in existence and what about the a/c and other systems? As much as I would love to see it, I'd say this is a pipedream.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Those renderings look way too big to be practical, even the seated option.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 126
Corridor Rail has/had quite a few of the ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels. Probably enough to equip a daily LA-SF train. The website still features them prominently. I can envision some cases where putting them back in service as coaches could make economic sense. But, refitting them for sleeper service seems unfeasible.
https://corridorrail.com/
https://corridorrail.com/
