Dreamstar overnight train between San Francisco and Los Angeles?

[George Harris]

They also claimed the Titanic was indestructible. Not casting aspersion...just saying.

And that claim was not made by White Star Lines itself nor the builder of the ship. It was puffery by the press and some travel agents. There were some short cuts in the design of the ship as well. The watertight bulkheads did not go all the way to the top deck, so once the ship was nose down far enough they overtopped one by one. Whether a full height watertight bulkhead would have prevented the sinking or simply slowed it down, I have never seen that discussed. The lifeboat capacity exceeded the requirements of the time, but the requirements of that time did not require lifeboat capacity to equal ship and crew capacity for the ship and the ship's excess lifeboat capacity beyond requirements did not go that far, either. Although it was somewhat faster than most steamships of that time it did not have sufficient power to nor was it attempting to set any speed records for the Atlantic crossing. It was one of three identical ships, Titanic, Brittanic, and Olympic. One of those remaining was sunk in WW1 and the other ultimately scrapped some years later. Also, these ships were significantly smaller than many of the current day cruise liners.
(Edit: Ship names corrected.)

 

[Anderson]

And that claim was not made by White Star Lines itself nor the builder of the ship. It was puffery by the press and some travel agents. There were some short cuts in the design of the ship as well. The watertight bulkheads did not go all the way to the top deck, so once the ship was nose down far enough they overtopped one by one. Whether a full height watertight bulkhead would have prevented the sinking or simply slowed it down, I have never seen that discussed. The lifeboat capacity exceeded the requirements of the time, but the requirements of that time did not require lifeboat capacity to equal ship and crew capacity for the ship and the ship's excess lifeboat capacity beyond requirements did not go that far, either. Although it was somewhat faster than most steamships of that time it did not have sufficient power to nor was it attempting to set any speed records for the Atlantic crossing. It was one of three identical ships, Titanic, Gigantic, and Levitan. One of those remaining was sunk in WW1 and the other ultimately scrapped some years later. Also, these ships were significantly smaller than many of the current day cruise liners.

Titanic, Brittanic, and Olympic. Titanic sank in 1912. Brittanic was sunk during WW1. Olympic was scrapped in the 1930s (as advances over the ensuing 25 years or so had made her somewhat obsolete).

 

[Palmland]

I know maintenance must have been challenging but addition of that car and it’s services gave first class some real ‘classily’

Yes it did. Note the etched glass behind my wife, the sconces on the wall, and soft seating areas. I particularly liked the change from community seating to having a table to yourselves and sitting across from your spouse. Probably for that reason I remember the meals being a cut above the ones in the dining car (although I think at some point they were prepared there rather than in the PPC). This was 2012.

 

[jiml]

Yes it did. Note the etched glass behind my wife, the sconces on the wall, and soft seating areas. I particularly liked the change from community seating to having a table to yourselves and sitting across from your spouse. Probably for that reason I remember the meals being a cut above the ones in the dining car (although I think at some point they were prepared there rather than in the PPC). This was 2012.

The best part of any Starlight trip. Sorely missed. Although usually very good, some of the meals weren't that different to today's Flex offerings when it came to preparation. The variety and plating is what set them apart, and on our last PPC-equipped trip only one entree actually came from the diner kitchen; the others were heated in the PPC's mini-galley. They compared favorably with First Class airline meals.

 

[west point]

The Pacific Parlor car was an invention of the then route manager. It was so successful that sleepers almost always sold out. However, it has been suggested that the success was so pronounced that upper eastern management felt it made them look bad. The route manager wanted to add more cars to the consists, but the route was going to be costed an unreasonable amount for cars that were at that time only spares.

The route manager left for whatever reason. All route managers were also ended. Quickly Amtrak stopped PP service and sold the cars off to prevent PP from returning. All this was in an article in trains magazine years ago. Anyone have exact issue?

 

[George Harris]

Titanic, Brittanic, and Olympic. Titanic sank in 1912. Brittanic was sunk during WW1. Olympic was scrapped in the 1930s (as advances over the ensuing 25 years or so had made her somewhat obsolete).

Thanks for the corrections. Don't where my warped memory found the names I used. I will go back and correct my original, at least i recalled their demise correctly. (My grandchildren would say, of course you would, you remember it happening.)

 

[GDRRiley]

They are going to end up needing at least 10-15 sleepers, 5-10 coaches and 3 cafe and or lounge cars along with 3-6 locos.|

This entire process sounds a lot easier with a single level fleet of older cars from the northeast.
Example:
MBTA has 49 cars built by MBB 39 of which are stored out of service, even if 8 of the fleet had to be scrapped to provide hard to get parts thats still 41 cars they could use. Enough to build 25 sleepers, 10 coaches, 3 lounges and 3 cafe cars. With fairly common 80% operating in service thats 2 sets of 10 sleepers, 4 coaches with a cafe and a lounge car.
We have seen what alstom did with the rocky mountaineer coaches.

Spoiler: Pictures

 

[Bonser]

The Pacific Parlor car was an invention of the then route manager. It was so successful that sleepers almost always sold out. However, it has been suggested that the success was so pronounced that upper eastern management felt it made them look bad. The route manager wanted to add more cars to the consists, but the route was going to be costed an unreasonable amount for cars that were at that time only spares.

The route manager left for whatever reason. All route managers were also ended. Quickly Amtrak stopped PP service and sold the cars off to prevent PP from returning. All this was in an article in trains magazine years ago. Anyone have exact issue?

It was my recollection that the PP cars were beyond repair - too old - or was that just an excuse to discontinue the service?

 

[Gary Moline]

My memory banks may be faulty, but I remember the PPCs being taken off for "Annual" maintenance, but then never returned.

 

[Cal]

It was my recollection that the PP cars were beyond repair - too old - or was that just an excuse to discontinue the service?

I mean i’m sure they weren’t the easiest to work with, but I think the main reason is that Anderson wanted them gone.

 

[zephyr17]

Probably for that reason I remember the meals being a cut above the ones in the dining car (although I think at some point they were prepared there rather than in the PPC). This was 2012.

The meals were always prepared in the diner. The PPC did not have a galley.

 

[west point]

The full width Luxury suit shown would be limited to just one for a single level first car train as the rear car has to provide for conductor access to rear of train. A two-level train could have 2 suites on each car's lower level. For a 2-level car train would need at least one elevator to access upper bedrooms.

 

[GDRRiley]

The full width Luxury suit shown would be limited to just one for a single level first car train as the rear car has to provide for conductor access to rear of train. A two-level train could have 2 suites on each car's lower level. For a 2-level car train would need at least one elevator to access upper bedrooms.

Supposedly there was a design for the hi levels where the upper space had 8 large full width bedrooms with a pair sharing stairs resulting in 4 stairs along with 6 roomettes below

 

[Brian Battuello]

I did some research on the Hi-Level Sleeper design in:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/hi-level-sleeper-the-car-that-never-was.88144/#post-1054664

 

[cirdan]

It was my recollection that the PP cars were beyond repair - too old - or was that just an excuse to discontinue the service?

The problem with this type of statement is that it is very difficult to fact-check as an outsider. Especially when the statement is kept vague and non-committal, such as pronouncing that repairs or upgrades are "too expensive" rather than providing concrete figures so one could discuss viability or alternative funding mechanisms. So even when true, this type of pronouncement is bound to elicit a lot of skepticism.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I’ve said this before, both here and to various rail fans and advocates, and I’ll say it again: Budd cars are the most durable rail car design ever made, and a 70+ year hard service life is possible for the car bodies. But that’s the point: it is possible, with parts (the acquisition of which are mostly very expensive to impossible), to extend the life of a Budd built car to longer than an average Americans lifespan.

That does not mean that doing so is economically prudent. The renderings shown herein suggest modifications that would be materially expensive, very labor intensive, and done on a very small scale suggesting little mass construction efficiencies. These modifications imply millions in modifications to a car approaching the terminal end of its service life: I doubt with full to the frame rebuilds, these cars could operate even another 20 years.

The additional cost of buying something off the shelf, such as modified bi-level commuter coaches, equipped with private rooms from the get go, would be relatively minimal… and provide a potential service life of more than double.

 

[cirdan]

The additional cost of buying something off the shelf, such as modified bi-level commuter coaches, equipped with private rooms from the get go, would be relatively minimal… and provide a potential service life of more than double.

I don't think there is any doubt that these cars will have to be retired at some point. The question is, how much would it cost to keep them running until a worthy replacement can be rolled out. Right now we see no commitment to any such replacement, and the longer the cars are gone, the more the calls for a replacement will fade away. In other words the service is being permanently and stealthily downgraded.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I don't think there is any doubt that these cars will have to be retired at some point. The question is, how much would it cost to keep them running until a worthy replacement can be rolled out. Right now we see no commitment to any such replacement, and the longer the cars are gone, the more the calls for a replacement will fade away. In other words the service is being permanently and stealthily downgraded.

Just like the Dome Cars!( Ocean View was the Last of the Mohicans on Amtrak)