Duplex Roomettes may provide more room?

[dlagrua]

One thing Amtrak does much better than the preAmtrak lines and that is that every sleeping car passenger has access to a shower.
Before Amtrak, the master rooms on the Crescent and the Broadway Limited had showers. The drawing room in the rear car of the CZ had a shower. Some lounge cars on various Southern Pacific trains had one shower to be shared by all sleeping car passengers. Maybe a few others.

QUESTION:

Did anybody on here use any of those pre Amtrak showers? I have not. Just wonder who has.

Pre-Amtrak was before my time but I cannot imagine a passenger on a LD train like the CZ not having access to a shower for a two night, three day trip. I can only guess that the overnight routes may not offered bathrooms with showers but the LD routes? Certainly they must have offered something or the smell on the train would have been terrible.

As for the duplex roomettes, it was reported earlier in this post that one traveler remembers up to 40 of these units in a single sleeper but they were obviously private roomettes.

 

[MisterRick]

Speaking of cramped sleeping accomodations on board of a train, check out this picture. I was looking around on Google Images for pictures of different types train sleepers and came across this poor bastard who looks like a canned sardine.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8880/train06.jpg

Not sure where this is but I assume that it could be a train line in either India, Pakistan or another country in that region.

Another thing that comes to mind, what's to stop someone from going in and stealing your stuff? or even god forbid having a sicko pervert on board the train with rape on their mind or putting a knife to your throat? On that train all that's between you and them is a lousy curtain. I mean granted in the Amtrak sleepers when you leave your room the door cannot be locked but at least at night you can afford some safety and privacy by locking the door from the inside and having a call button for the attendant in the event that someone tries to break down your door.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Pre-Amtrak was before my time but I cannot imagine a passenger on a LD train like the CZ not having access to a shower for a two night, three day trip. I can only guess that the overnight routes may not offered bathrooms with showers but the LD routes? Certainly they must have offered something or the smell on the train would have been terrible.As for the duplex roomettes, it was reported earlier in this post that one traveler remembers up to 40 of these units in a single sleeper but they were obviously private roomettes.

They didn't have showers. People in those days didn't shower every day off the train, why would they bother doing it on the train?

I've never been big on showering. I do it if I've been sweating or if I'm tired (it helps wake me up), but I've gone a week without showering numerous times.

The fact of the matter is, showering frequently increases production of needed body secretions (such as skin oil) to make up for it being washed off. The very fact that you shower often makes you have a need to shower often. My girlfriend, who has never showered more than about once a week on a regular basis, produces very little skin oil because she doesn't shower. It will take her a week to be notably greasy, even her hair. In fact, if she does shower more than about once a week (as a result of needed functions or whatnot) she becomes dried out.

Secondarily, I have come to cease noticing how much my office smells. Not of me- of rodents. We have a bunch of them, and rodent urine smells. It REEKS. However, since my office ALWAYS smells of it, I have come to not notice it anymore. The smell you think would become so unbearable would, in fact, just slip into the background and cease being noticed.

 

[Chris J.]

The fact of the matter is, showering frequently increases production of needed body secretions (such as skin oil) to make up for it being washed off. The very fact that you shower often makes you have a need to shower often. My girlfriend, who has never showered more than about once a week on a regular basis, produces very little skin oil because she doesn't shower. It will take her a week to be notably greasy, even her hair. In fact, if she does shower more than about once a week (as a result of needed functions or whatnot) she becomes dried out.

I generally shower ever day. If I don't have a shower one day I feel a bit icky; and my hair feels greasy as anything. If I just leave it it generally improves and isn't too bad. Not that I make a habit of going for days without showers, but when camping or at music festivals a shower isn't a real option.

When I was a kid we didn't have a shower in the house; and I'm younger than Amtrak.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Pre-Amtrak was before my time but I cannot imagine a passenger on a LD train like the CZ not having access to a shower for a two night, three day trip. I can only guess that the overnight routes may not offered bathrooms with showers but the LD routes? Certainly they must have offered something or the smell on the train would have been terrible.As for the duplex roomettes, it was reported earlier in this post that one traveler remembers up to 40 of these units in a single sleeper but they were obviously private roomettes.

They didn't have showers. People in those days didn't shower every day off the train, why would they bother doing it on the train?

I've never been big on showering. I do it if I've been sweating or if I'm tired (it helps wake me up), but I've gone a week without showering numerous times.

The fact of the matter is, showering frequently increases production of needed body secretions (such as skin oil) to make up for it being washed off. The very fact that you shower often makes you have a need to shower often. My girlfriend, who has never showered more than about once a week on a regular basis, produces very little skin oil because she doesn't shower. It will take her a week to be notably greasy, even her hair. In fact, if she does shower more than about once a week (as a result of needed functions or whatnot) she becomes dried out.

Secondarily, I have come to cease noticing how much my office smells. Not of me- of rodents. We have a bunch of them, and rodent urine smells. It REEKS. However, since my office ALWAYS smells of it, I have come to not notice it anymore. The smell you think would become so unbearable would, in fact, just slip into the background and cease being noticed.

I remember pre=Amtrak days well. Very few trains had showers, as listed above (noting that I may hae forgotten some). You mention the CZ, but note that I said the CZ only had one shower on the whole train, and that was for occupants of the drawing room in the rear observation lounge dome car. So far as I know, those were the only drawing rooms in the country which had showers. Truth to tell, I doubt if there was any serious difference between the"drawing room" on the CZ and the "master room" on the Crescent and the Broadway.

GML's point about getting used to odors is very well taken. Think no further than this word: cigarettes. Not only did not travelers have to bathe every single day we were largely used to cigarette smoke.

It is called conditioning If you are used to i,t never know any difference,then you do not think about it.

When I was in sleeper I did use towl, soap and water more places than I do today.

And do not forget coach passengers: no shower for them then or now either.

 

[railiner]

Speaking of cramped sleeping accomodations on board of a train, check out this picture. I was looking around on Google Images for pictures of different types train sleepers and came across this poor bastard who looks like a canned sardine.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8880/train06.jpg

Not sure where this is but I assume that it could be a train line in either India, Pakistan or another country in that region.

Another thing that comes to mind, what's to stop someone from going in and stealing your stuff? or even god forbid having a sicko pervert on board the train with rape on their mind or putting a knife to your throat? On that train all that's between you and them is a lousy curtain. I mean granted in the Amtrak sleepers when you leave your room the door cannot be locked but at least at night you can afford some safety and privacy by locking the door from the inside and having a call button for the attendant in the event that someone tries to break down your door.

Yikes! That looks like the berths on a submarine. Or perhaps the triple-tiered bunks on a music band tour bus.

 

[Bob Dylan]

No offense to anyone but I'll take a pass on riding on a train or bus or plane or any other means of transportation with people who do not bathe/shower, maintain personal hygene! I understand that third and fourth world countries have a problem with this but unless one is homeless there really is no excuse to smell like you spent the week @ Woodstock or hanging out under a bridge! Ill admit that some people are overly concerned with cleanliness but this obession/compulsion is still better than a greasy/sweaty/smelly seat or table mate!

Back in the day when I was in the Navy we took "Navy showers" @ sea but still bathed/performed personal hygene daily! I can remember riding the dog and overnight trains when no showers were available, Bill is correct that only a few trains had any kind of shower available even for first class passengers but also the stations and other public facilities had Public Showers that one could pay a small fee to use! I rememeber as a boy the ones in Chicago Union Station although we didnt use them since we were on a day trip!

My motto is do whatever one wants when @ home but when out in public, especially on public transportation, a shower a day, with a little deodarant, goes a long way to keeping others and yourself comfortable! I'm still wondering if GML isnt putting us on especially about the mice/rats!

 

[Ispolkom]

Another thing that comes to mind, what's to stop someone from going in and stealing your stuff? or even god forbid having a sicko pervert on board the train with rape on their mind or putting a knife to your throat? On that train all that's between you and them is a lousy curtain. I mean granted in the Amtrak sleepers when you leave your room the door cannot be locked but at least at night you can afford some safety and privacy by locking the door from the inside and having a call button for the attendant in the event that someone tries to break down your door.

I've traveled in shared compartments (and worse: the third-class sleepers Russians call platskartnyi) and actually the lack of privacy is the reason you're safe. Nobody is going to commit a crime when everyone is watching. The worst that ever happened to me was someone filched rubles from my wallet, and even in that case the thief left me my passport and enough money to get by until the end of the month.

We're planning a trip to Europe, and I was surprised to learn that some European night trains now segregate couchette passengers by gender.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

No offense to anyone but I'll take a pass on riding on a train or bus or plane or any other means of transportation with people who do not bathe/shower, maintain personal hygene! I understand that third and fourth world countries have a problem with this but unless one is homeless there really is no excuse to smell like you spent the week @ Woodstock or hanging out under a bridge! Ill admit that some people are overly concerned with cleanliness but this obession/compulsion is still better than a greasy/sweaty/smelly seat or table mate!
Back in the day when I was in the Navy we took "Navy showers" @ sea but still bathed/performed personal hygene daily! I can remember riding the dog and overnight trains when no showers were available, Bill is correct that only a few trains had any kind of shower available even for first class passengers but also the stations and other public facilities had Public Showers that one could pay a small fee to use! I rememeber as a boy the ones in Chicago Union Station although we didnt use them since we were on a day trip!

My motto is do whatever one wants when @ home but when out in public, especially on public transportation, a shower a day, with a little deodarant, goes a long way to keeping others and yourself comfortable! I'm still wondering if GML isnt putting us on especially about the mice/rats!

Jim, somehow it worked out. I took several long coach trips, like Chattanoooga to San Francisco, as a young man.I never sent people running into the Pacific Ocean to get away from my smell.

After all most people bathe/shower before boarding if they can and wear clean clothes. And we do not do our gardening on board, we really do very little to create new uncleanness.

I vaguely remember the showers in Chicago Union Station. I think they developed a reputation for not being safe.

I mentioned earlier that many people used to smoke. So all that smoke odor was all over the whole train. But we were used to it. You mentioned whether GML was putting us on with the rat urine thing....I think not...but even if he was he was still making a point about conditioning, a very valid point.

And if you really go back in time, remember trains (nor anything else) used to not be air conditioned. So people were unbathed, smoking and air blowing in the window. But they survived and did not know how bad off they were. By the way, the trainmen came through closing the windows befoe entering tunnels. My(late) parents remember those days, I do not.

 

[zephyr17]

No offense to anyone but I'll take a pass on riding on a train or bus or plane or any other means of transportation with people who do not bathe/shower, maintain personal hygene! I understand that third and fourth world countries have a problem with this but unless one is homeless there really is no excuse to smell like you spent the week @ Woodstock or hanging out under a bridge! Ill admit that some people are overly concerned with cleanliness but this obession/compulsion is still better than a greasy/sweaty/smelly seat or table mate!
Back in the day when I was in the Navy we took "Navy showers" @ sea but still bathed/performed personal hygene daily! I can remember riding the dog and overnight trains when no showers were available, Bill is correct that only a few trains had any kind of shower available even for first class passengers but also the stations and other public facilities had Public Showers that one could pay a small fee to use! I rememeber as a boy the ones in Chicago Union Station although we didnt use them since we were on a day trip!

My motto is do whatever one wants when @ home but when out in public, especially on public transportation, a shower a day, with a little deodarant, goes a long way to keeping others and yourself comfortable! I'm still wondering if GML isnt putting us on especially about the mice/rats!

Jim, somehow it worked out. I took several long coach trips, like Chattanoooga to San Francisco, as a young man.I never sent people running into the Pacific Ocean to get away from my smell.

After all most people bathe/shower before boarding if they can and wear clean clothes. And we do not do our gardening on board, we really do very little to create new uncleanness.

I vaguely remember the showers in Chicago Union Station. I think they developed a reputation for not being safe.

I mentioned earlier that many people used to smoke. So all that smoke odor was all over the whole train. But we were used to it. You mentioned whether GML was putting us on with the rat urine thing....I think not...but even if he was he was still making a point about conditioning, a very valid point.

And if you really go back in time, remember trains (nor anything else) used to not be air conditioned. So people were unbathed, smoking and air blowing in the window. But they survived and did not know how bad off they were. By the way, the trainmen came through closing the windows befoe entering tunnels. My(late) parents remember those days, I do not.

Just a reminder to everyone, the Superliner Is were not originally equipped with the "public" shower, they only had the showers in the then-Deluxe Bedrooms (they also did not have the upstairs bathroom, either). It was some years before the showers were installed, I recall the first showers showing up in the late 1980s. So the non-shower days were not that long ago and went well nearly 20 years into the Amtrak era. I don't recall an overwhelming stench from the "Economy Bedroom" (now roomette) passengers.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Upon reflection I think I agree with Bill, I had forgotten that smoking used to be so prevelant in all public places, especially those where alcohol was served such as lounge cars! And the no A/C thing too, WOW, guess we'd all die today without it, especially in the South! I never knew that Superliner Is didnt have the shower for the economy (ie roomettes)

bedrooms since I usually rode coach on the few times I rode a Superliner train years ago!

And come to think of it also, lots of homes didnt have showers or even running water back in the day so the Saturday night bath was a ritual where it was warm enough! (dont know what they did in Minnesota in the winter!LOL :lol: )Also as Bill has pointed out folks dressed up more back in the day, I can just picture riding in a non-AC coach across the desert in August in a suit and tie or formal womens dress!(well, not me but the ladies! :lol: ) Makes us realize once again that maybe these are the good ole days even though old memories are often good ones!

 

[Hytec]

Another thing that comes to mind, what's to stop someone from going in and stealing your stuff? or even god forbid having a sicko pervert on board the train with rape on their mind or putting a knife to your throat? On that train all that's between you and them is a lousy curtain. I mean granted in the Amtrak sleepers when you leave your room the door cannot be locked but at least at night you can afford some safety and privacy by locking the door from the inside and having a call button for the attendant in the event that someone tries to break down your door.

You should be aware that when Pullmans were in wide service 70-90 years ago, American travelers, especially those who paid for First-Class Pullman service, had higher moral standards than you assume for today's travellers. Name trains that carried Pullmans also carried lounges and diners specifically for First-Class passengers. Coach passengers were blocked from entering the First-Class cars. So the issues you raise were not considered a problem for Pullman travellers, even those in sections.

 

[lyke99]

And come to think of it also, lots of homes didnt have showers or even running water back in the day so the Saturday night bath was a ritual where it was warm enough! (dont know what they did in Minnesota in the winter!LOL :lol: )Also as Bill has pointed out folks dressed up more back in the day, I can just picture riding in a non-AC coach across the desert in August in a suit and tie or formal womens dress!(well, not me but the ladies! :lol: ) Makes us realize once again that maybe these are the good ole days even though old memories are often good ones!

My North Dakota-born mother talks about not having running water in the "old house" and baths being conducted in a galvanized steel washtub in the kitchen. The kettle on the stove provided occasional warm ups to the water. I've lived in Minnesota - with running water - all my life.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

No offense to anyone but I'll take a pass on riding on a train or bus or plane or any other means of transportation with people who do not bathe/shower, maintain personal hygene! I understand that third and fourth world countries have a problem with this but unless one is homeless there really is no excuse to smell like you spent the week @ Woodstock or hanging out under a bridge! Ill admit that some people are overly concerned with cleanliness but this obession/compulsion is still better than a greasy/sweaty/smelly seat or table mate!
Back in the day when I was in the Navy we took "Navy showers" @ sea but still bathed/performed personal hygene daily! I can remember riding the dog and overnight trains when no showers were available, Bill is correct that only a few trains had any kind of shower available even for first class passengers but also the stations and other public facilities had Public Showers that one could pay a small fee to use! I rememeber as a boy the ones in Chicago Union Station although we didnt use them since we were on a day trip!

My motto is do whatever one wants when @ home but when out in public, especially on public transportation, a shower a day, with a little deodarant, goes a long way to keeping others and yourself comfortable! I'm still wondering if GML isnt putting us on especially about the mice/rats!

My girlfriend and I like rodents, although we have no rats. A bunch of mice and a gerbil. They make good pets- they are generally friendly, and except for the omnipresent sound of running in wheels (I swear, the ideal mouse trap involves a wheel somehow!) they are extremely quiet.

Now, I don't walk onto a train after a week of not showering; in fact, I shower the day before I ride and every day aboard if I'm in sleeper. A train is an enclosed place, and in todays standards of cleanliness, I'd prefer not to be the person who adds new odors to the train. But the point of the matter is, the reason we get dirty so often is we shower so often.

By the way, we aren't particularly fastidious, us humans. Rodents are much more so. They will clean themselves dozens of times a day.

 

[MisterRick]

You should be aware that when Pullmans were in wide service 70-90 years ago, American travelers, especially those who paid for First-Class Pullman service, had higher moral standards than you assume for today's travellers. Name trains that carried Pullmans also carried lounges and diners specifically for First-Class passengers. Coach passengers were blocked from entering the First-Class cars. So the issues you raise were not considered a problem for Pullman travellers, even those in sections.

I see your point.

 

[toddinde]

The Crescent used Slumbercoaches 25-30 years ago. My brother and sister-in-law rode in one overnight from NYP to NOL and said it was similar to old Pullman heavyweights with upper and lower berths at night, and coach-like seating during the day. They had paid for a bedroom, but due to a hurricane-caused service interruption and equipment shortage, the Heritage sleeper to which they were assigned had been replaced with a Slumbercoach. They felt short-changed because the berths were very cramped for dressing/undressing, daytime seating had no privacy, and they were offered no re-imbursement. It was about this same time that Amtrak got rid of Slumbercoaches.

Slumbercoach rooms had as much daytime privacy as any sleeping car private room; just smaller. The single rooms were like roomettes with a narrower bed. The double rooms were similar to Amtrak’s roomettes, and similar to a section, but entirely enclosed. Definitely not a bedroom though.

 

[toddinde]

Yes, what you saw was a real pre-WWII heavyweight Pullman sleeping car, I remember them well. The car had open opposed seating during the day, and upper and lower berths separated by heavy curtains at night for sleeping. The lower berths were formed by rolling the opposing seats down and flat to form a mattress. The upper berths were folded down from the ceiling wall area above the windows.

This link shows a Pullman Sleeper from the early 1900s in its daytime configuration. You can see the upper berths folded up against the ceiling/wall area above the windows. I rode overnight in several Pullman Sleepers as a child and remember them with mixed feelings...1) they were comfortable for sitting and sleeping, but 2) the upper berths were very cramped for putting on your clothes the next morning.

You can still ride them across Canada on VIA’s Canadian. They’re fun and very comfortable.

 

[zephyr17]

You can still ride them across Canada on VIA’s Canadian. They’re fun and very comfortable.

They are not currently selling open berth sections on the Canadian due to
COVID restrictions. I checked them last month and they weren't available for the entire period of released inventory 11 months out.

What is weird is they are selling coach seats. Sections are no worse than coach in terms of possible disease transmission.

 

[toddinde]

They are not currently selling open berth sections on the Canadian due to
COVID restrictions. I checked them last month and they weren't available for the entire period of released inventory 11 months out.

What is weird is they are selling coach seats. Sections are no worse than coach in terms of possible disease transmission.

That is weird. Doesn’t seem to make any sense, but I guess that’s the way things are.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Before this thread was revisited it was last posted in 2010. Several of these members have since died. It Ok to start a new thread sometimes.