East of NOL could be reinstated

[gp35]

"Since Hurricane Katrina hit in August 2005, Sunset Limited services east of New

Orleans have not yet resumed, but the Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans

to reinstate service in the future."

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/rail/plan/ch4.pdf

 

[Ryan]

Sure. And pigs could fly.

Seriously, you're pointing to a report from a state DOT, from a state that isn't one of the states impacted, that refers to a high speed rail commission's "plans" for a section of track that's not a part of their designated high speed corridor.

Sounds a little bit far fetched to me.

 

[the_traveler]

Unless I read it wrong, that report is from the TX DOT. As far as I know, Texas is WEST of NOL!

As far as service east of NOL, all I can say is "When pigs fly!" - it's only been "temporarily suspended" for the past 6 years!

If you notice the map on page 4-6, there is a line of "Other passenger lines" from Mobile to Jacksonville. That has not seen passenger service since 2005!

Even if they broke ground today, that line from NOL to Mobile probably would not see service until 2020 or later!

 

[Guest]

Sure. And pigs could fly.

Seriously, you're pointing to a report from a state DOT, from a state that isn't one of the states impacted, that refers to a high speed rail commission's "plans" for a section of track that's not a part of their designated high speed corridor.

Sounds a little bit far fetched to me.

Pay attention. " Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans

to reinstate service in the future."

 

[Tumbleweed]

Is that track even being used for freight?

 

[the_traveler]

The track had been repaired within 6 months and has been carrying freight ever since. But Amtrak is blackmailing the states of LA, MS, AL and FL to pay for the service to get it restarted. The thing is prior to 2005, this was part of the "National" system, and Amtrak paid all cost. But now Amtrak is demanding the states to pay all the costs!

 

[jis]

Is that track even being used for freight?

Yes.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The track had been repaired within 6 months and has been carrying freight ever since. But Amtrak is blackmailing the states of LA, MS, AL and FL to pay for the service to get it restarted. The thing is prior to 2005, this was part of the "National" system, and Amtrak paid all cost. But now Amtrak is demanding the states to pay all the costs!

I don't think blackmail actually means what you apparently think it means. :mellow:

 

[jis]

The track had been repaired within 6 months and has been carrying freight ever since. But Amtrak is blackmailing the states of LA, MS, AL and FL to pay for the service to get it restarted. The thing is prior to 2005, this was part of the "National" system, and Amtrak paid all cost. But now Amtrak is demanding the states to pay all the costs!

Did Amtrak actually ask the states to pay? Which state di they ask to pay how much? Just curious.

I think they should have been above board and posted six month notice to get rid of it properly if they wanted to do that. But other than that, to some extent it is a case of "what Amtrak giveth it taketh away" since this was not part of the original national system. It was added by Amtrak later. There are many original national system trains that have disappeared too (National Limited, Broadway limited, Lone Star/Texas Chief etc.), as have many "what Amtrak giveth it taketh away" trains (Desert Wind, Pioneer). So the point is, something having been a National System train does not carry much weight in this sort of an argument, unfortunately.

 

[Ispolkom]

Pay attention. " Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans

to reinstate service in the future."

From their Web site, it looks to me like the Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans... to do some studies. Got to keep those consultants employed!

 

[GG-1]

The track had been repaired within 6 months and has been carrying freight ever since. But Amtrak is blackmailing the states of LA, MS, AL and FL to pay for the service to get it restarted. The thing is prior to 2005, this was part of the "National" system, and Amtrak paid all cost. But now Amtrak is demanding the states to pay all the costs!

Aloha

This is the same ti=hing Amtrak did with California and Nevada over the Desert Wind. And we all regret how that turned out. :angry: :angry: h34r: :angry:

 

[haolerider]

Sure. And pigs could fly.

Seriously, you're pointing to a report from a state DOT, from a state that isn't one of the states impacted, that refers to a high speed rail commission's "plans" for a section of track that's not a part of their designated high speed corridor.

Sounds a little bit far fetched to me.

Pay attention. " Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans

to reinstate service in the future."

Actually, when I look at the map, the area from NOL west to TX is the spot designated at a potential HSR line, not the former Sunset trackage east of NOL. Remember, the future can be defined differently by different groups. In this case, I think future is a long, long way off!

 

[Ryan]

Sure. And pigs could fly.

Seriously, you're pointing to a report from a state DOT, from a state that isn't one of the states impacted, that refers to a high speed rail commission's "plans" for a section of track that's not a part of their designated high speed corridor.

Sounds a little bit far fetched to me.

Pay attention. " Southern High-Speed Rail Commission has plans

to reinstate service in the future."

Actually, when I look at the map, the area from NOL west to TX is the spot designated at a potential HSR line, not the former Sunset trackage east of NOL. Remember, the future can be defined differently by different groups. In this case, I think future is a long, long way off!

Precisely. Perhaps it is the guest that should pay a little bit more attention.

Edit:

Here's a helpful picture for you:

 

[TimePeace]

Actually, when I look at the map, the area from NOL west to TX is the spot designated at a potential HSR line, not the former Sunset trackage east of NOL. Remember, the future can be defined differently by different groups. In this case, I think future is a long, long way off!

Or, as Yogi Berra is alleged to have said, "The future's not what it used to be!"

 

[LA Resident]

What I find scary about the map posted by Ryan is that it could very well form the basis for those in Congress who want to cut Amtrak back to "viable" routes. Amtrak is bound to take a pounding if Obama and Boehner somehow manage to come up with "something big" on the deficit cutting. And then all the Amtrak skeptics would pounce on a map such as this to argue for a truncated system i.e. not a system at all.

 

[had8ley]

Pigs will fly in NOL when Sunset East is restored. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[PRR 60]

Pigs will fly in NOL when Sunset East is restored. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If a pig flying was the criteria, the Sunset would be running today.

Flying Pig

 

[jis]

Pigs will fly in NOL when Sunset East is restored. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If a pig flying was the criteria, the Sunset would be running today.

Flying Pig

I guess they will need to fly without the aid of Rolls-Royce, Pratt & Whitney, General Electric or CFM :lol:

 

[cirdan]

There are many original national system trains that have disappeared too (National Limited, Broadway limited, Lone Star/Texas Chief etc.), as have many "what Amtrak giveth it taketh away" trains (Desert Wind, Pioneer). So the point is, something having been a National System train does not carry much weight in this sort of an argument, unfortunately.

Can Amtrak actually withdraw service unilaterally, or does it have to go through some formal abandonment process.

I guess indefinite temporary suspension is a loophole to effectively abandon the service without having to jump through all the hoops.

 

[cirdan]

Actually, when I look at the map, the area from NOL west to TX is the spot designated at a potential HSR line, not the former Sunset trackage east of NOL. Remember, the future can be defined differently by different groups. In this case, I think future is a long, long way off!

Also remember that doodles on maps are e a low-cost way of pretending to have a vision and to be working towards it.

The high-speed rail map does not in any way differentiate between very realistic routes that are highly likely to start happening quite soon (such as in California) and at the other end of the scale, things that in the best of all possible worlds would be nice to have but are so low down on the list of priorities that most of us probably won't see them in our lifetimes.

It also doesn't differentiate between true high speed lines costing a lot of money, and corridors on which speed can be raised by a certain margin by fixing a couple of things that went broke.

 

[the_traveler]

There are many original national system trains that have disappeared too (National Limited, Broadway limited, Lone Star/Texas Chief etc.), as have many "what Amtrak giveth it taketh away" trains (Desert Wind, Pioneer). So the point is, something having been a National System train does not carry much weight in this sort of an argument, unfortunately.

Can Amtrak actually withdraw service unilaterally, or does it have to go through some formal abandonment process.

I guess indefinite temporary suspension is a loophole to effectively abandon the service without having to jump through all the hoops.

Amtrak has to give a 6 month notice in any discontinuance. But then, if they plan to ever restart service, they then have to renegotiate a contact with the railroad(s) involved. (And probably have to pay for upgrades, signals, ect... - but if they "temporarily suspend service (like they did for the past 6 years), they do not have to do so. They can go by the old contract.

So they do not want to "discontinue the route"!

 

[had8ley]

There are many original national system trains that have disappeared too (National Limited, Broadway limited, Lone Star/Texas Chief etc.), as have many "what Amtrak giveth it taketh away" trains (Desert Wind, Pioneer). So the point is, something having been a National System train does not carry much weight in this sort of an argument, unfortunately.

Can Amtrak actually withdraw service unilaterally, or does it have to go through some formal abandonment process.

I guess indefinite temporary suspension is a loophole to effectively abandon the service without having to jump through all the hoops.

Amtrak has to give a 6 month notice in any discontinuance. But then, if they plan to ever restart service, they then have to renegotiate a contact with the railroad(s) involved. (And probably have to pay for upgrades, signals, ect... - but if they "temporarily suspend service (like they did for the past 6 years), they do not have to do so. They can go by the old contract.

So they do not want to "discontinue the route"!

Sorry Dave, but Kingston will be a regular stop on the Acela before the Sunset heads for the sunrise in the east. The vast amount of monies wasted on crews overtime and deadheading crews and whole train sets just got to be too much of a sore thumb when the figures were all added up.(right now they're screaming a $400 plus lose per pax WITHOUT going east of NOL) It would be way cheaper to stop the Acela in Kingston for just Dave than it would to trust the UP not to delay the Sunset if business ever picks up to mid-90's levels~ you could quadruple the trackage from NOL to LAX and it would still be a log jam for an under 10 car length train... I've seen the figures and they ain't pretty but smell a little better than tires...

 

[the_traveler]

It would be way cheaper to stop the Acela in Kingston for just Dave

Hey Jay - the Acela DID stop in KIN just for me once!

 

[jis]

The high-speed rail map does not in any way differentiate between very realistic routes that are highly likely to start happening quite soon (such as in California) and at the other end of the scale, things that in the best of all possible worlds would be nice to have but are so low down on the list of priorities that most of us probably won't see them in our lifetimes.

It also doesn't differentiate between true high speed lines costing a lot of money, and corridors on which speed can be raised by a certain margin by fixing a couple of things that went broke.

The only purpose it serves is to determine whether a route would be eligible for federal money. Notice that NEC was not eligible until it was explicitly added as an HS corridor to the list of such.