EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

[amamba]

Well folks it is 11:15 Chicago time and I am on the lsL. We are still in CHI! I did enjoy the wine and cheese party in the diner.

 

[amamba]

We just pulled out at 11:20 pm!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I was actually ticketed for today's train so I don't envision a problem with my room. The folks in the bedroom next to me On the 8 are trying to get a sleeper on today's train up at the metro lounge counter.

Good thing you left plenty of just barely enough padding. Too bad you couldn't spend any time enjoying Chicago, which just happens to be one of my favorite cities in the world. In fact I was visiting Chicago just last week after snagging a last second flight for a couple days of goofing around. I had a couple friends who were bummed we couldn't stay any longer due to previous engagements, but as I told them then "There's always next time!" Although I don't think anyone would hold it against you if next time was a ways off yet.

We just pulled out at 11:20 pm!

Better late than never! -_-

I think he was posting to point out that you once again injected an off-topic political agenda into a discussion. Of course, your reply is just another personal insult, but is too is pretty much par for the course. It's gets pretty tiresome.

You now have a PM with everything I have to say on the matter. If you wish to discuss this any further please reply there instead of here. Thanks. :mellow:

 

[CHamilton]

We just pulled out at 11:20 pm!

That sound you heard is a bunch of us breathing a sigh of relief! Hope you can relax tonight and enjoy the remainder of your trip.

 

[Steve4031]

Things for keeping us posted. Hope the lsl gets you gone in a positive state of mind.

 

[amamba]

I'm in a great state of mind- my EB SCA gave me four little splits of champagne and I did the wine and cheese tasting. I am going to sleep slightly drunk and lulled to sleep with the rocking of the rails.

 

[NW cannonball]

We just pulled out at 11:20 pm!

Hope it gets better from now eastward. And that you get a good night's sleep on the LSL.

"hard travels make good stories" -- If you have the time and the inclination your adventure might make a good trip report -- sort of a "good, bad, ugly" about what went wrong and Amtraks successful and unsuccessful efforts to ameliorate the problems. And passenger reactions and all.

Hoping future travels less stressful. And that whatever support you got here helped at least some.

 

[NW cannonball]

The EB problems continue --

I observed the #8(17) -- probably? started on 7/17 at SEA-PDX - whatever from the footbridge over the tracks near Dinkytown MSP arriving about 14 hours late -- and saw it again at downtown Saint Paul about 22:00 still 14 hours late. Lost a few minutes in the station. It will (or maybe has already) met the #7(19) which is about 3 hours late on the River SOO (CP) between Winona and Red Wing - an unusual meeting place for these trains - the River SOO is mostly single track from Winona to MSP - there are half a dozen passing sidings but expect more delays for both trains.

AND -- the eastbound #8 and #28 departing west coast 7/19 are already listed as "Service Disruptions"

John Bobinyec's site that summarizes Amtrak data seems overwhelmed by the confusion - I've learned to rely on http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/ in conjunction with Amtrak.com and Julie -- but I'm not going to bother Julie now just to satisfy my curiousity - and John's site is overwhelmed by the out-of-specs data from AMTK

I think I'll stay awake an other hour or two and hope to see #7 departing MSP - it was reported 3:24 late at RDW and expected 3:07 late at MSP - add another 45 minutes - I may see it at 02:0something.

Only two years ago before the first Nodak floods - the EB was reasonably on time almost always -- the SOO (CP) and BNSF did a real good job overall.

Since then the EB has gone from good on-time performance to so-so - to the last month or two - worse that than the Starlate or the UP. The Starlate has actually gotten a lot better over the last 2 years.

My last MSP-SEA trip was November 2011 - mostly uneventful - one emergency stop westbound in Rockies - decoupled brake hose - an hour delay at SPK - gave our engines the to eastbound and borrowed a BNSF engine west from Spokane less then 30 minutes late into Everett - where my daughter worried for a few minutes that we were a freight - no problems - minimal delays. The return trip in coach was minimally marred by 3 20-somethings that were trying to hold 8 seats for the 3 of them -- I just turned on my "I am a senile person and I know the rules and here is an empty seat" persona. And I hid my s****s when they got cut off from the booze before Whitefish. But yeah - like someone somewhere here said the Williston Basin place is a typical boomtown now.

Summary -- don't know about the landslides east of Spokane - there is trackwork MSP-MWK - derailments on the high-line -- seems like more than normal --

overall -- a really bad few months for the Builder --

Some of these problems are short-term - some are just accidents - the sum total is -- horrible performance.

It will take more than one simple program to fix this -- this is worse than I, a long-time EB user have ever seen.

By "long-time" I mean that the latest EB I ever rode was back in 1968 before AMTRAK - the Fargo - SCD line had a derailment - my parents drove me to Wahpeton ND (25 miles) where I caught the eastbound Builder 1:20 late out of blizzard on the border. Arrived Saint Paul only 15 minutes late -- even with the schedule padding - we made up time -- the phone posts looked like a picket fence -- this was before the 79mph rule - and everything ahead of us took siding - green lights all the way at 95mph. Won't happen now.

Oh, and me observing MSP Robert Street Bridge -- heard something like - "notquote not heard" 3 juveniles caucasians sitting in the gauge blue shorts white tops air horn and minimal brake and they cleared r/w - "notquote"

So - kudos to the EB crew both ops and OBS and pax -- this last month seems like something worse that what you ever imagined. Hoping the service reverts to the mean which is/was much much better than the last few months.

 

[NW cannonball]

I am reporting this by personal observation because the AMTRAK site and Julie and John seem overwhelmed.

Amtrak 7 departed MSP 02:38 -- heard the two toots from the station a mile east from here and then heard the main-track switch go "clonck" to let AMTK 7 on to the main. Three and a half hours late.

Posted something about the EB that passed thru here a few hours ago already - only 14 hours late.

Repeat -- the eastbound Builder of 07/19 is already off the maps reported as "Service Disruption"

Really hard to plan a trip -- worst I've ever seen her in MSP

 

[Ryan]

I think he was posting to point out that you once again injected an off-topic political agenda into a discussion.

My point, that you apparently missed, was that he replied to a member who questioned his post by insulting him. Not by explaining his position and how he thought it was relevant to the topic, but by throwing out a personal insult - period. Maybe that does not offend your sensibilities, but it does mine.

I was addressing that part of your comments. If that wasn't the point you were trying to make, you should have left it off since his comments were neither off-topic nor political.

Amamba, glad to hear that things worked out for you (mostly). Hopefully the EB can get back on track now (no pun intended).

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

From looking at the status maps the whole system is just a mess, a sea of red and yellow.

 

[yarrow]

From looking at the status maps the whole system is just a mess, a sea of red and yellow.

i doubt they would do it during the height of travel season and i doubt it would help long term but i recall times when they have cancelled eb departures for a day to get equipment back on time.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

From looking at the status maps the whole system is just a mess, a sea of red and yellow.

i doubt they would do it during the height of travel season and i doubt it would help long term but i recall times when they have cancelled eb departures for a day to get equipment back on time.

Todays 7 left Chicago on time, and has been losing time ever since Milwaukee its almost an hour late thus far. Yesterday left Chicago only 39 minutes late and has continually bled time ever since. Actually both train 7 and 8 has been able to leave their origins mostly on time over the last couple of days but still bleeds time after that.

In fact it seems most of the western trains are able to leave their origins on time but just bleed time after that. There was talk of heat causing problems, looking at national temperatures they seem to have leveled off around 85 to 90. I understand there are a number of track projects going on (I know there is one that is affecting the starlight but that ends August 1st) so that another issue and the clean up from the storms in the east.

 

[Russell]

Hey there everyone, am sitting at King street station in Seattle, 8(20) was supposed to leave at 4:40, now it's not expected to leave until midnight due to a major safety issue with the bolts on one of the cars!!!! Oh well.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Hey there everyone, am sitting at King street station in Seattle, 8(20) was supposed to leave at 4:40, now it's not expected to leave until midnight due to a major safety issue with the bolts on one of the cars!!!! Oh well.

S**t. EB_OBS, we have heard all about this from your helpful information, but you have never been on one of the affected/mentioned trains. Are you by chance crewing this?

 

[Phil S]

From looking at the status maps the whole system is just a mess, a sea of red and yellow.

i doubt they would do it during the height of travel season and i doubt it would help long term but i recall times when they have cancelled eb departures for a day to get equipment back on time.

Todays 7 left Chicago on time, and has been losing time ever since Milwaukee its almost an hour late thus far. Yesterday left Chicago only 39 minutes late and has continually bled time ever since. Actually both train 7 and 8 has been able to leave their origins mostly on time over the last couple of days but still bleeds time after that.

In fact it seems most of the western trains are able to leave their origins on time but just bleed time after that. There was talk of heat causing problems, looking at national temperatures they seem to have leveled off around 85 to 90. I understand there are a number of track projects going on (I know there is one that is affecting the starlight but that ends August 1st) so that another issue and the clean up from the storms in the east.

Yup, #7(10) now down almost 7 hours out of Havre -- and it hasn't even gotten to NW Montana which is largely w/o power from today's storms. Though I suppose the storm's effects ripple outward pretty quickly as trains pile up in both directions.

Still, is BNSF just trying to push too much metal in both directions, more than its infrastructure can handle, especially given all the freak weather? I realize there have been serious problems on non-BNSF parts of the EB route but it seems the BNSF high-line is now permanently running at half speed.

Phil

 

[EB_OBS]

Hey there everyone, am sitting at King street station in Seattle, 8(20) was supposed to leave at 4:40, now it's not expected to leave until midnight due to a major safety issue with the bolts on one of the cars!!!! Oh well.

S**t. EB_OBS, we have heard all about this from your helpful information, but you have never been on one of the affected/mentioned trains. Are you by chance crewing this?

#7 arrived late into Seattle toady and of course mechanical forces found a broken bolster spring on the Dorm-car. There's no protect available and the train is sold-out so it must be fixed. The T&E crew was sent to the hotel. The earliest they can return to duty is 21:40. Mechanical estimated originally six hours to repair the broken bolster spring but it's looking like it'll be done in five. #8 might be ready to depart by 22:30. Hope so.

 

[EB_OBS]

From looking at the status maps the whole system is just a mess, a sea of red and yellow.

i doubt they would do it during the height of travel season and i doubt it would help long term but i recall times when they have cancelled eb departures for a day to get equipment back on time.

Todays 7 left Chicago on time, and has been losing time ever since Milwaukee its almost an hour late thus far. Yesterday left Chicago only 39 minutes late and has continually bled time ever since. Actually both train 7 and 8 has been able to leave their origins mostly on time over the last couple of days but still bleeds time after that.

In fact it seems most of the western trains are able to leave their origins on time but just bleed time after that. There was talk of heat causing problems, looking at national temperatures they seem to have leveled off around 85 to 90. I understand there are a number of track projects going on (I know there is one that is affecting the starlight but that ends August 1st) so that another issue and the clean up from the storms in the east.

On our orders last night SPK - SBY, the BNSF lowered the heat restriction kick-in from 90 degrees to 85 degrees. Don't know if this is a permanent change though.

 

[George Harris]

By "long-time" I mean that the latest EB I ever rode was back in 1968 before AMTRAK - the Fargo - SCD line had a derailment - my parents drove me to Wahpeton ND (25 miles) where I caught the eastbound Builder 1:20 late out of blizzard on the border. Arrived Saint Paul only 15 minutes late -- even with the schedule padding - we made up time -- the phone posts looked like a picket fence -- this was before the 79mph rule - and everything ahead of us took siding - green lights all the way at 95mph. Won't happen now.

Actually, the 79 mph rule goes back to 1947, However, for many railroads when their premier passenger trains got behind there would frequently be a top to bottom conspiricy of silence when speed limits were exceeded in attempt to get back on time. Of course, back then the engineers and conductors on passenger trains were at the top of their seniority rosters and knew their territories like the back of their hands and were trusted to know exactly where the reasonable limits of comfort and safety were located. The ICC was not in their pockets as long as there were no problems. This situation lasted into the first few years of Amtrak. There were several derailments and other events that led to a tightening up of control and rule enforcement.

 

[CHamilton]

Still, is BNSF just trying to push too much metal in both directions, more than its infrastructure can handle, especially given all the freak weather? I realize there have been serious problems on non-BNSF parts of the EB route but it seems the BNSF high-line is now permanently running at half speed.

#7 arrived late into Seattle toady and of course mechanical forces found a broken bolster spring on the Dorm-car. There's no protect available and the train is sold-out so it must be fixed. The T&E crew was sent to the hotel. The earliest they can return to duty is 21:40. Mechanical estimated originally six hours to repair the broken bolster spring but it's looking like it'll be done in five. #8 might be ready to depart by 22:30. Hope so.

So between weather, trackwork, busy lines, and equipment shortages, we have a mess. Amtrak can't do much about the first three, but here in the NW, there seems to be no extra equipment at all. Remind me again why none of the current equipment purchases include Superliner equipment, or any equipment that we're likely to see out here? Yes, we'll get a couple of Talgo trainsets, but short of permanently ending the EB at SPK and running Talgo equipment instead, that's not going to help.

 

[Ryan]

Because Amyrak is going for a phased replacement plan. Even demand leads to better suppliers and the don't have the money to buy everything at once. The single level sleeping car capacity was worse, and the VL2 gets the oldest cars in the fleet (single level diners and bags) off the roster.

 

[Trogdor]

Because Amyrak is going for a phased replacement plan. Even demand leads to better suppliers and the don't have the money to buy everything at once. The single level sleeping car capacity was worse, and the VL2 gets the oldest cars in the fleet (single level diners and bags) off the roster.

Not only that, but Amtrak also has a limited amount of money, especially with Congress not appropriating any actual money for equipment purchases, thus requiring Amtrak to finance these through internal revenues (which, thankfully, have been higher than projected for a while) or through loans.

 

[RRUserious]

Yup, #7(10) now down almost 7 hours out of Havre -- and it hasn't even gotten to NW Montana which is largely w/o power from today's storms. Though I suppose the storm's effects ripple outward pretty quickly as trains pile up in both directions.

Still, is BNSF just trying to push too much metal in both directions, more than its infrastructure can handle, especially given all the freak weather? I realize there have been serious problems on non-BNSF parts of the EB route but it seems the BNSF high-line is now permanently running at half speed.

Phil

Is BNSF the company that wants to send coal and oil trains to the west coast to export to Asia? Why don't they just tell Amtrak "forget the Empire Builder, we've got the track time totally used". Or they will if all of these plans come to fruition. Especially galling since it seems carbon emissions are causing the whole country to bake and the crops are being incinerated. And they want to facilitate MORE coal and oil combustion?

 

[Ana]

Amamba, SO glad to hear you made it! I just arrived in EMY on the CZ and I thought of you when I saw the EB delays on the CUS departure board. It's been a riveting story to follow. The CZ departed 45 mins late as we were waiting on late connections and there was much moaning about that so I mentioned your train ( even my trip on the EB 8 (7) was over 4 hours late).

And it's been a good reminder to me to pack heaps of food ( I can't eat gluten so their substitute meals wouldn't help me).

I hope you are home by now

 

[amamba]

Ana I am finally home! Thanks for rooting for me.