EB Mess - 2

[elliewen]

Advice for a relative newbie? I am relocating from CHI to SEA and for medical reasons I cannot fly. I am booked on the EB from CHI-SEA on Jul 20. I have an apartment in Chicago until Jul 27 but cannot extend the lease. So I desperately want to make it out of Chicago that week. My fear is that for some reason - weather, thawing ground somewhere on the route, heinous delays that keep the equipment from arriving CHI on time - the EB will get cancelled. If that happens then every sleeper passenger will need to be rebooked, not just me. And I am scared this will put me past the Jul 27 window and I will end up in Chicago for extra weeks on a couch (did I mention my medical condition?).

Am I being too paranoid? Any ideas what to do? The only backup plan I came up with was buying another sleeper ticket later the same week and canceling it if I make the first train, then using the $$ credit later. But this is a very expensive option.

Thanks so much in advance!!

 

[Ryan]

Relax. If you're not worried about getting to SEA at a particular time, you'll probably be fine. It's reasonable unlikely that your specific train is going to be cancelled, most likely just going to start a little late and end very late.

 

[TraneMan]

I agree with Ryan, I don't see that happening,

 

[montana mike]

Advice for a relative newbie? I am relocating from CHI to SEA and for medical reasons I cannot fly. I am booked on the EB from CHI-SEA on Jul 20. I have an apartment in Chicago until Jul 27 but cannot extend the lease. So I desperately want to make it out of Chicago that week. My fear is that for some reason - weather, thawing ground somewhere on the route, heinous delays that keep the equipment from arriving CHI on time - the EB will get cancelled. If that happens then every sleeper passenger will need to be rebooked, not just me. And I am scared this will put me past the Jul 27 window and I will end up in Chicago for extra weeks on a couch (did I mention my medical condition?).

Am I being too paranoid? Any ideas what to do? The only backup plan I came up with was buying another sleeper ticket later the same week and canceling it if I make the first train, then using the $$ credit later. But this is a very expensive option.

Thanks so much in advance!!

Hopefully you will just spend 5-7 hours longer on your train (and get an extra meal or two). I take the Empire Builders quite frequently, and while the service has been terrible as far as timekeeping to be sure, the actual number of trains that are canceled is small, thus the odds are definitely in your favor that your train will leave as planned CHI on 7/20. So we will all be thinking good thoughts that your train departs CHI on 7/20.

 

[NW cannonball]

8(19)had a failed engine around everett. waiting for new power. probably be running around 4 hours late

Yup, #8 left Leavenworth 4:48 down. My on board correspondent reported just now (got in cell range) "We went backwards faster than forwards, and more often"

Anyhow, the train is moving eastward.

Spokane - here we come!

Hope the next 2 days on #8 good for scenery - have zero expectations for when or if #8 arrives SPUD - Saturday likely, but not sure.

 

[montana mike]

At least you will see Glacier NP in the daylight now! If all goes as "normal" these days an arrival into SPUD early in the afternoon tomorrow is a likely scenario.

 

[MrFSS]

At least you will see Glacier NP in the daylight now! If all goes as "normal" these days an arrival into SPUD early in the afternoon tomorrow is a likely scenario.

Mike - with the long delays well known by Amtrak, do you think they are stocking more food for extra meals on a regular basis, now?

 

[EB_OBS]

At least you will see Glacier NP in the daylight now! If all goes as "normal" these days an arrival into SPUD early in the afternoon tomorrow is a likely scenario.

Mike - with the long delays well known by Amtrak, do you think they are stocking more food for extra meals on a regular basis, now?

This is otherwise "peak-season" so pars are high. However space is limited for fresh and frozen food storage so when extra meals are served it's common for supplies to be picked up mid-route or near the end in order to serve another meal or two.

It's just not possible to stock enough food for two extra meals on the train from the origination station. There isn't enough space.

 

[JayPea]

Fortunately the snow levels remained mostly above 6500 feet (where 1-3 feet of snow did indeed fall over the past couple days), far above where there EBs travel (Marias Pass around 5200 feet). We live just outside the Park and actually had a short period of heavy snow (no accumulation) two days ago, but it's partly sunny around 60 degrees now. The rivers are indeed high all throughout NW MT though. I don't think the weather will be an issue going forward for the trains. Forecast is for mostly sunny skies and temps around 70 degrees!!!

Hope that weather holds! I'm taking the EB to Glacier Park after a day or two in Seattle and I'm hoping that Going-to-the-Sun Road will be open fully by then. That may be too much to hope for though.

The local GNP people say the end of June or early July for an opening. They haven't even gotten to the "Big Drift" yet--which is a reported 80 feet deep right now!

I will be there June 26th thru the 28th. Looks like it may or may not be open fully by then. As I said earlier, there are still plenty of places to explore in Glacier and the surrounding area regardless. And on another note, unless some disaster happens, it looks like the #8 that will turn in Chicago to be tomorrow's #7/#27, the one I board in Spokane on Monday, will arrive in Chicago today plenty early for it to be turned and ready to go on time out of Chicago tomorrow. Of course, I'm not holding my breath on that!

 

[andersone]

the latest on GPK weather

"Snowplowing on the Sun Road is expected to resume on Sunday. Park officials are unsure when complete vehicle access will be available on the Sun Road" can be found here. [SIZE=12.222222328186035px]Seems[/SIZE] the GTSR has had an avalanche as a result of the recent weather, but no report of train related issues.

 

[NW cannonball]

Latest from the NWS - might affect the EB.

SOME LOCATIONS THAT WILL EXPERIENCE FLOODING INCLUDE....DOWNTOWNMINNEAPOLIS...DOWNTOWN ST PAUL....MSP INTL AIRPORT.....REDWING... etc.
Some of these locations are on the EB route. The only one that worries me is Red Wing -- the tracks run near the river, and I've seen those tracks flooded more than once.

At that choke point near the river, it is possible that the Builder could be "stopped in it's tracks"

Not likely, but possible.

-- edit -- River high, creek done rise, sewer backed up, hope the darn train works.
But, for me, the important thing is -

Son from Seattle likely to arrive only 10 hours late, more or less . wHEE-YA-HAH.

 

[montana mike]

Updates from BNSF: They did open an initial 12 miles of new track in MT, the bad news is that slow orders are in effect for quite a while (20 mph, for this section). A second 10+ miles is to open shortly. I see #8 in ND is almost 10 hours late this AM-bummer. The flooding doesn't help either. I would imagine slow orders in various places in MN for that reason as well.

 

[JayPea]

So far, so good! The #7 I'm taking from Spokane Monday left CUS on time, the first time that's happened in several days. Now I can obsessively check its status every 2 minutes like I always do! :lol:

 

[Ispolkom]

Latest from the NWS - might affect the EB.

SOME LOCATIONS THAT WILL EXPERIENCE FLOODING INCLUDE....DOWNTOWNMINNEAPOLIS...DOWNTOWN ST PAUL....MSP INTL AIRPORT.....REDWING... etc.
Some of these locations are on the EB route. The only one that worries me is Red Wing -- the tracks run near the river, and I've seen those tracks flooded more than once.

At that choke point near the river, it is possible that the Builder could be "stopped in it's tracks"

Not likely, but possible.

-- edit -- River high, creek done rise, sewer backed up, hope the darn train works.
But, for me, the important thing is -

Son from Seattle likely to arrive only 10 hours late, more or less . wHEE-YA-HAH.

The Mississippi is supposed to crest at 20 feet on Thursday, the highest since April 2001. I don't know what that means in Red Wing, but if the tracks there are closed, I imagine Amtrak will pull the plug on the Empire Builder.

 

[yarrow]

So far, so good! The #7 I'm taking from Spokane Monday left CUS on time, the first time that's happened in several days. Now I can obsessively check its status every 2 minutes like I always do! :lol:

since 7 will go through the gauntlet on a weekend that gives you your best chance. one of the fun parts is the pre-trip obsessive checking of john's status maps. good luck and good trip to you

 

[JayPea]

So far, so good! The #7 I'm taking from Spokane Monday left CUS on time, the first time that's happened in several days. Now I can obsessively check its status every 2 minutes like I always do! :lol:

since 7 will go through the gauntlet on a weekend that gives you your best chance. one of the fun parts is the pre-trip obsessive checking of john's status maps. good luck and good trip to you

Thank you, Yarrow. Much looking forward to it! After a couple of days in Seattle, I and my uncle head to Glacier Park and return to Spokane next Sunday. The return trip from Glacier to Spokane may be a problem if flooding shuts down rail lines. If absolute worst comes to worst we can always rent a car and return to Spokane that way if no other alternative is available. It will work out! And I agree about obsessively following John's maps being part of the fun. I don't know about you but I'm glad I live a day and a half from Chicago: more time to obsess over the maps! :lol:

 

[Bob Dylan]

Jeff:Maybe y'all can rent a raft and float back to Spokane like the Pioneers did in the old days! LOL

 

[Ryan]

 

[neroden]

Is 20 feet high enough to flood the tracks east of Union Depot? I know the whole darn area is in a flood plain, once you leave the elevated platform of Union Depot.

 

[JayPea]

LOL Jim and Ryan! :lol: If that's what it takes..... On a related note, according to Track-a-Train, #7 is due into Minneapolis-St. Paul on time. Hopefully the North Dakota Gauntlet won't be too bad.

 

[NW cannonball]

So far, so good! The #7 I'm taking from Spokane Monday left CUS on time, the first time that's happened in several days. Now I can obsessively check its status every 2 minutes like I always do! :lol:

Now, your #7 looks to be early into SCD. So far so good!

I too, spend a bit (a lot?) of time checking the train status on John's site or or Amtrak's Track-A-train When I or friends and relations are on board or about to be.

 

[NW cannonball]

Is 20 feet high enough to flood the tracks east of Union Depot? I know the whole darn area is in a flood plain, once you leave the elevated platform of Union Depot.

Dunno. I have researched the floods and how the tracks are affected a bit. The 2001 floods had a double peak in April of that year at 23.76 (on 2001/04/16) and 23.6 (2001/04/30). There's photos on the Web from 2001 of CP's Saint Paul yard mostly wet - maybe a half-foot above railhead on the yard tracks, with mainline still above water. 20 foot flood (19.8 latest forecast) doesn't sound so bad.

In 2001 I did see from the Kellogg bridge several 6" pumps trying to dry the low spot near Division Street (where the SPUD station tracks now join the main line).

East from Division and Hoffman the next serious low spots are near Hastings Junction where the EB diverges across the Mississippi (and the BNSF crosses to Prescott and down the East Bank of the Miss) - I have seen that spot closed and spiked and didn't open for more than a week - but that was (if memory serves) in the 1997 flood.

Red Wing is the only other serious low spot near the Mississippi in my bailiwick - right now I guess Red Wing is the most vulnerable - looking at the flood forecasts and adding a big dose of salt and some limited experience.

It may be a near thing. Right now I'm not too worried about the floods (except in my basement, and Warner Road being closed).

Any more rain, all bets are off.

And, thinking a bit more, the tracks east of SPUD don't get flooded only by the Mississippi. There's a lot of local drainage that could cause problems from the uphill side - through Swede Hollow, say, or the long shallow unnamed valley that I35E and most of the tracks climb to get north out of Saint Paul.

I just don't know.

 

[NW cannonball]

Meeting my son at SPUD was -- an experience.

We had agreed by text at 17:00 plus that the EB #8 was "about to arrive"

I said -- "shall I bring sandwiches, take the Green Line to greet you? -- Ya sure Dad."

What happened was - the EB #8 was delayed at Saint Anthony (less than a hundred yards from our home, and about 7 miles from SPUD) for a few hours, after already being late 10-12 hours. Something about a container train failing its complicated evolution -- whatever.

BUT - I'd already took the Green line to SPUD.

I waited, after taking the Green Line to SPUD, not quite 3 hours, at SPUD. No food, (the restaurant on-site was doing a wedding) no working vending machines - even if you could find them on the lower level. But! I did not eat the sandwiches I brought for my West Coast traveler, oh no. Because I knew there's no decent cheap food near SPUD. (Tanpopo is always sold out Saturday evenings). And, man, the kid was glad I brought the sandwiches, when the train finally arrived)

All in all - not good for Amtrak - but - it's the only train in town.

The train was more than twelve hours late. A few hours waiting at a very nearby junction, where, if he hadn't checked a bag, he could have just jumped off, and met me and his gf a few hours earlier.

The pax waiting at SPUD -- I talked to some of them, several were meeting first-time Amtrak riders. Sorry experience for them. I tried to explain why this formerly prime route is so unpredictable.

Sorry sorry failures.

But the kid did get to Grandma's funeral. Somewhat late.

Hope this not too incoherent - but it's a sorry story of Amtrak and BNSF.

As for me - if the line can take me somewhere -- I might go.

 

[JayPea]

And, on the other hand, so far, the #7 that I catch tomorrow in Spokane is having incredible luck. It's last status was that it departed Fargo 22 minutes down and is scheduled to arrive in Minot on time. And, no, I'm not staying up all night just to feed my obsession with the status maps. :lol: I'm at work and on my break.

 

[dlagrua]

In the last 12 days we were on both the #7 and #8 EB trains. The Portland #27 passengers on June 11th ended up on a bus from Spokane to Portland. The line to Portland was also shut the following day. The bus passengers were offered a lavish dinner for the 8 hour trip to Portland- a Subway Sandwich! We were luckier. The arrival into SEA was ONLY about six hours late but at least we got there..

On the return trip the arrival of #8 into CUS on Thursday June 19th was 12 hours late. Sleeper passengers were given an extra full dinner. We pulled into CUS at 3:30AM missing all the connections East. We ended up on a bus for a 26 mile trip to Downers Grove, IL to stay in a very nice Doubletree Hotel to get 4 hours of sleep before being bused back to CUS. Amtrak also bought us breakfast at the hotel . The only thing available on the LSL Fri were coach seats. We wanted the CAP connection originally but I knew that it was very unlikely that we could connect on the return so as a precautionary move we booked the 9:30 PM Lakeshore. We re-booked back on the #30 (Capital Limited) on Fri and we were lucky to get the last bedroom for the remainder of the trip.. The bet paid off in that the LSL connection did not happen and since the LSL is the only connection that Amtrak was guaranteeing we were able to secure a hotel when all of the hotels in Chicago were booked solid. We left on the CAP (which was the preferred route anyway) and caught the regional back to PHL.

The entire trip had its ups and downs. The onboard crews were great, especially the SCA's; Robb on the EB, Tom on the Cardinal (that arrived on time) and Roger on the CAP.(that arrived 1 1/2 hours late.

IMO the main problem getting the EB to arrive on time is the oil boom in the Bakken region of North Dakota. There are something like 250 oil trains in that area. All are like a mile long. The heavy rail traffic cannot be accommodated on the single track mainline. The gross lateness of the EB will continue until such time as the BNSF gets a second track in place. It may be a year or two. As big oil money controls the tracks; Amtrak does not have priority. We recommend avoiding the EB until things improve. It is a mess right now.