Effect of Amtrak ending LDT's w/o PTC on 12/31/18 on reservations

[DianaMoi]

I have a reservation on both the CONO and California Zephyr in early January 2019 for a return trip home.

After reading Amtrak is ending LDT's that don't have PTC by 12/31/18, does that mean passengers should cancel their reservation?

 

[cpotisch]

This is not confirmed yet. Amtrak VP Stephen Gardner just announced that the plan is to only run over tracks with PTC. They haven't actually decided to close all those routes yet. Additionally, if it was confirmed and those routes were shut down (which I doubt at this point), they would cancel your reservation for you and give you a full refund.

Put simply, DO NOT CANCEL YOUR RESERVATION.

 

[the_traveler]

No.

I am almost certain that there will be a so called “last minute” change.

 

[cpotisch]

No.

I am almost certain that there will be a so called “last minute” change.

Yeah, the cancellation of eight routes simultaneously really seems too good to be true.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Worst case- you'll take a contemporary bus around the non-PTC parts of the route.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I probably wouldn't cancel, at least not yet, but I would absolutely keep an eye on things. As my travel dates got closer I'd certainly check here and probably call Amtrak directly to reconfirm. So far as I am aware Amtrak will have to formally notify the relevant authorities and post applicable signage around six weeks prior to discontinuance of any currently active route or segment.

Worst case- you'll take a contemporary bus around the non-PTC parts of the route.

That may be the most likely outcome, but it's not even close to being the worst possible case.

 

[cpotisch]

I probably wouldn't cancel, at least not yet, but I would absolutely keep an eye on things. As my travel dates got closer I'd certainly check here and probably call Amtrak directly to reconfirm. So far as I am aware Amtrak will have to formally notify the relevant authorities and post applicable signage around six weeks prior to discontinuance of any currently active route or segment.

Wouldn't Amtrak cancel her reservation for her if it's official? In which case, why would she ever have to cancel it herself?

 

[bratkinson]

Worst case- you'll take a contemporary bus around the non-PTC parts of the route.

Actually, I think the worst case scenario is Anderson simply changes all LD trains to 'temporarily suspended' status. That way he needs no approval from anyone, and they are technically not terminated. No 180 day notices, nothing. Given that Amtrak suspends NEC traffic whenever the airlines cancel due to snow, it would appear that he does whatever he wants to regardless of any 'pushback' from customers, Congress, FRA, or anyone else.

 

[dcnbuchholz]

I have a reservation for a return home (LAX to KCY) on the Southwest Chief in early January, 2019. This reservation is my 30th on a LDT, but it will be my first-ever roomette - or will it be?! I too, ask: Should I cancel my reservation? Should I try to find another way around? Sunset Limited to Texas Eagle to Heartland Flyer to Southwest Chief?

I may cancel...on my own...if I know I can be sure to go LAX to KCY solely on rail in another route. I am likely going to "hang in there" but I do not want to be left with no way home if I wait too long. Is Amtrak required to give a minimum of six weeks notice if THEY cancel my reservation?

I know.….29 trips in coach? Yep. This is...was...is supposed to be my special treat to myself.

 

[tonys96]

I probably wouldn't cancel, at least not yet, but I would absolutely keep an eye on things. As my travel dates got closer I'd certainly check here and probably call Amtrak directly to reconfirm. So far as I am aware Amtrak will have to formally notify the relevant authorities and post applicable signage around six weeks prior to discontinuance of any currently active route or segment.

Wouldn't Amtrak cancel her reservation for her if it's official? In which case, why would she ever have to cancel it herself?

To secure alternate transport?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I probably wouldn't cancel, at least not yet, but I would absolutely keep an eye on things. As my travel dates got closer I'd certainly check here and probably call Amtrak directly to reconfirm. So far as I am aware Amtrak will have to formally notify the relevant authorities and post applicable signage around six weeks prior to discontinuance of any currently active route or segment.

Wouldn't Amtrak cancel her reservation for her if it's official? In which case, why would she ever have to cancel it herself?

I doubt Amtrak would proactively cancel and refund trips if they chose to turn all or part of the route into a bus bridge and/or dropped sleepers and dining cars from shorter train segments as previously reported. When Amtrak implemented Anderson's contemporary dining service they didn't offer any refunds above and beyond the current restrictions, so I wouldn't expect any special treatment for PTC related changes either. Not to mention that replacing Amtrak with another option is better done earlier rather than later. Better safe than sorry.

 

[MikeM]

I have a reservation on both the CONO and California Zephyr in early January 2019 for a return trip home.

After reading Amtrak is ending LDT's that don't have PTC by 12/31/18, does that mean passengers should cancel their reservation?

Be careful about that. When the Eagle was going to get "fresh contemporary" box meals, I bailed on a sleeper reservation in late December. With the change in Amtrak reservations policy Anderson pushed through early in 2018, you lose something like 20% of the ticket price for cancellation. I'm still glad I cancelled based on the information that was out there, but if the train ends then they obviously can't charge you a cancellation fee. In the meantime I would be extremely hesitant to book any new Amtrak travel until such time that they either figure out what they want to be when they grow up, or they change the cancellation policy to not leave passengers hanging if/when services are cut back, downgraded, or changed.

 

[CAMISSY55]

" In the meantime I would be extremely hesitant to book any new Amtrak travel until such time that they either figure out what they want to be when they grow up, or they change the cancellation policy to not leave passengers hanging if/when services are cut back, downgraded, or changed."

So true, really. And without Anderson cancelling the first LD route, he is effectively reducing the ridership which can then be used to justify possible cancellation of routes. Self profiling prophecy! (As many others have noted.)

It's like we are being played, either way we go !!!!

 

[Skyline]

" In the meantime I would be extremely hesitant to book any new Amtrak travel until such time that they either figure out what they want to be when they grow up, or they change the cancellation policy to not leave passengers hanging if/when services are cut back, downgraded, or changed."

So true, really. And without Anderson cancelling the first LD route, he is effectively reducing the ridership which can then be used to justify possible cancellation of routes. Self profiling prophecy! (As many others have noted.)

It's like we are being played, either way we go !!!!

Like the 1960s all over again!

 

[cpotisch]

So true, really. And without Anderson cancelling the first LD route, he is effectively reducing the ridership which can then be used to justify possible cancellation of routes. Self profiling prophecy! (As many others have noted.)

Exactly! They can always use reduced ridership or revenue as justification for more cuts and even train offs! Just make a cut, watch ridership drop, declare that there's clearly no demand, and make another cut. And on the flip side, if ridership doesn't drop, they can always make the claim that people love the changes. Point is, management and the bean counters can play it to their advantage either way.

 

[DianaMoi]

Thank all of you for your suggestions on my question about should I cancel my CONO and CZ reservation due to possibility that Amtrak LTD's without PTC may end by 12/31/18.

I could quite probably change my travel dates to November/December provided it's not too late to get a reservation. What is the process to change my reservation to another date so that I don't incur a cancellation fee on my current reservation? If there isn't availability for me to get a new reservation in November/December, I will wait it out and see what happens with my current reservation.

 

[the_traveler]

If you want to change your dates, call an agent and SPECIFICALLY say that you want to MODIFY your reservation! If they try to cancel your existing reservation and rebook you on a new reservation, request a supervisor!

 

[Durham57]

I do not understand what PTC means. Would somebody please say?

 

[ehbowen]

Positive Train Control.

 

[cpotisch]

I do not understand what PTC means. Would somebody please say?

Here's a very good (and brief) description of Positive Train Control, from that Wikipedia page ehbowen linked to:

The main concept of PTC (as defined for North American Class I freight railroads) is that the train receives information about its location and where it is allowed to safely travel, also known as movement authorities. Equipment on board the train then enforces this, preventing unsafe movement. PTC systems may work in either dark territory or signaled territory, and may use GPS navigation to track train movements.

 

[cpotisch]

Thank all of you for your suggestions on my question about should I cancel my CONO and CZ reservation due to possibility that Amtrak LTD's without PTC may end by 12/31/18.

I could quite probably change my travel dates to November/December provided it's not too late to get a reservation. What is the process to change my reservation to another date so that I don't incur a cancellation fee on my current reservation? If there isn't availability for me to get a new reservation in November/December, I will wait it out and see what happens with my current reservation.

As the_traveler said, call and tell them you want to *modify* your reservation. We emphasize the specific wording because there is a 20% cancellation fee, and sometimes if you're not incredibly clear or specific, the agent might misunderstand your request and cancel your reservation, rather than merely modifying it. If they do modify it, you should not get any fee whatsoever, other than of course any premium if you're new ticket is more expensive. If the person gives you a hard time and/or is convinced that there is a fee, persist and ask to talk to a manager, since that is not the case (some agents just don't know how to modify a reservation).

All of this said, I still recommend you hold out on changing your reservation until the news is actually confirmed as something Amtrak is actually going through with.

 

[Durham57]

My thanks to cpotisch and ehbowen for enlightening me re: PTC.

 

[jis]

Just learned that Isleta to Dailies (the track used by Amtrak to get from Albuquerque station to the Transcon headed west), which has so far been mentioned as an Amtrak only segment with no PTC plans, is actually slated for PTC by BNSF since they run significant freight on it, but PTC is not active on it. However, it meets the requirements for operating without PTC after Dec 31 since it is a BNSF responsibility..

 

[GBNorman]

Actually, I think the worst case scenario is Anderson simply changes all LD trains to 'temporarily suspended' status. That way he needs no approval from anyone, and they are technically not terminated. No 180 day notices, nothing.

Clearly the "180 Day Notice" provisions of ARAA97 were made a mockery during '05 with the "suspension" of "Sunset East". The Route Map still shows the charade of "Other Amtrak Routes", but another charade of having the date of origin for WB #1 being the date it would have left ORL applied to its actual departure from NOL one day later has now changed.

 

[B&Ofan]

This is a joke as even without PTC trains are statically the safest way to travel. So in the name of safety they will be transferring passengers to buses? Now if highways were forced to have even a fraction of the safety measures that trains have.

Sorry about the rant but this is extremely frustrating.