Electric and Hybrid road vehicles

[Tlcooper44]

I like my cars. And people that attack them really don't understand how much most car owners would despise joining the sweating masses and sit cheek by jowl on a bus. There is a reason that SE Asia is buying more cars of late. The people that live there really DON'T want to ride on buses or trains to get to work.
And I don't think that an ***** saying that "the 95% of Americans" should have to live in a lower level life style is a winning argument.
And yes, he is an Urbanist D!ckhead.
Just my two cents.

Not sure I agree that Asia is somehow experiencing a massive modal shift away from public transit to cars.

The rule of price + time is universal. People will generally take the fastest and cheapest travel to their destination, regardless of who they have to travel with.

This shift you claim is definitely not evident to me in Hong Kong.

 

[MARC Rider]

Not sure I agree that Asia is somehow experiencing a massive modal shift away from public transit to cars.

The rule of price + time is universal. People will generally take the fastest and cheapest travel to their destination, regardless of who they have to travel with.

This shift you claim is definitely not evident to me in Hong Kong.

Yeah, I saw humongous traffic jams in Beijing, but the subways were even more crowded. I think that despite the traffic jams, most people in Beijing use transit or bikes.

If we're going to see a modal shift, it will be away from cars because people will increasingly be unable to afford them. I was told at this conference by someone who knows that the average price of a new car is now $50,000. The median annual income is now $40,000. The monthly payment on a $50,000 loan is pushing $800 a month. Someone making $40,00 a year earns ~$3,000 a month and that's before taxes. The median rent in the US is pushing $2,000 a month. Then there's utilities, food, health insurance, etc. Plus the cost of gasoline and car repairs. All of a sudden relying on transit and using a Zipcar when you really need it is starting to look better.

 

[Tlcooper44]

Yeah, I saw humongous traffic jams in Beijing, but the subways were even more crowded. I think that despite the traffic jams, most people in Beijing use transit or bikes.

If we're going to see a modal shift, it will be away from cars because people will increasingly be unable to afford them. I was told at this conference by someone who knows that the average price of a new car is now $50,000. The median annual income is now $40,000. The monthly payment on a $50,000 loan is pushing $800 a month. Someone making $40,00 a year earns ~$3,000 a month and that's before taxes. The median rent in the US is pushing $2,000 a month. Then there's utilities, food, health insurance, etc. Plus the cost of gasoline and car repairs. All of a sudden relying on transit and using a Zipcar when you really need it is starting to look better.

I like my cars. And people that attack them really don't understand how much most car owners would despise joining the sweating masses and sit cheek by jowl on a bus. There is a reason that SE Asia is buying more cars of late. The people that live there really DON'T want to ride on buses or trains to get to work.
And I don't think that an ***** saying that "the 95% of Americans" should have to live in a lower level life style is a winning argument.
And yes, he is an Urbanist D!ckhead.
Just my two cents.

I’m actually quite fed up with this false narrative that most people prefer cars all the time and that that number is increasing. It’s completely lacks evidence, and beyond North America, where cars are pushed upon us because of antiquated and draconian land use policies, it’s untrue.

In Europe and China, roughly half of households own cars, and in cities, that number is significantly lower.

In my experience, myself and my colleagues and friends actually prefer a car-free or car-lite lifestyle. It’s better for fitness, mental health, and safety (and my bank account).

Electric cars sure as hell won’t change that.

 

[PVD]

On the electric and hybrid question, I am extremely satisfied with my hybrid, mileage for a decent size vehicle is very good. But as someone who had 20 years of cars with manuals (Tercel, Corrolla, Camry, 92 SHO, 95 SHO), and then some conventional autos, the CVT took some getting used to. I would be open to a plug in hybrid, but my coop needs to do extensive electrical feeds to the rows of individual garages we have to facilitate installation of EVSE.

 

[jis]

On the electric and hybrid question, I am extremely satisfied with my hybrid, mileage for a decent size vehicle is very good. But as someone who had 20 years of cars with manuals (Tercel, Corrolla, Camry, 92 SHO, 95 SHO), and then some conventional autos, the CVT took some getting used to. I would be open to a plug in hybrid, but my coop needs to do extensive electrical feeds to the rows of individual garages we have to facilitate installation of EVSE.

I have had a Plugin Hybrid (Toyota Prius Prime) since 2017 and am very happy with it. On an average I drive less than 30 miles a day so a single charge suffices for me to essentially be equivalent to using an EV, and yet I have the flexibility of driving 300+ miles at a pinch if needed without worrying about charging. My charging is mostly using Solar power, so it is essentially zero marginal cost. I am very happy with it. I am not planning to go full EV anytime soon. I might spring for the 2024 or the 2025 Prius Prime as the improvements from the 2017 are quite significant, including 45+ miles electric range, and a much more powerful drivetrain.

 

[pennyk]

MODERATORE NOTE: please keep your comments on the topic of Electric and Hybrid road vehicles.
Thank you for your cooperation, understanding and participation.

 

[PVD]

I have had a Plugin Hybrid (Toyota Prius Prime) since 2017 and am very happy with it. On an average I drive less than 30 miles a day so a single charge suffices for me to essentially be equivalent to using an EV, and yet I have the flexibility of driving 300+ miles at a pinch if needed without worrying about charging. My charging is mostly using Solar power, so it is essentially zero marginal cost. I am very happy with it. I am not planning to go full EV anytime soon. I might spring for the 2024 or the 2025 Prius Prime as the improvements from the 2017 are quite significant, including 45+ miles electric range, and a much more powerful drivetrain.

My sister and brother in law have been satisfied Prius Hybrid owners for quite a while, they currently have 2 an older one and a newer one, and will shortly replace the old one. A Prime would really work well for them, but their lazy retired EVITP certified instructor brother in law hasn't made the trip to AZ to install the EVSE. When they replace the old one, it will be their 4th.

 

[jis]

I actually do Level 2 charging off of the 240v socket for the clothes drier using a Level 2 charging cable with the right plug for the car end of it that fits the socket on the Prius Prime. So there is no special installation for doing the charging. It takes about 2 hours to fully charge the EV + hybrid battery, which incidentally also gets fully charged.

 

[railiner]

I have had a Plugin Hybrid (Toyota Prius Prime) since 2017 and am very happy with it. On an average I drive less than 30 miles a day so a single charge suffices for me to essentially be equivalent to using an EV, and yet I have the flexibility of driving 300+ miles at a pinch if needed without worrying about charging. My charging is mostly using Solar power, so it is essentially zero marginal cost. I am very happy with it. I am not planning to go full EV anytime soon. I might spring for the 2024 or the 2025 Prius Prime as the improvements from the 2017 are quite significant, including 45+ miles electric range, and a much more powerful drivetrain.

When the plug-in version of the Prius first came out, I carefully thought about the pro's and con's, and decided that I would opt for the standard non plug-in version, as its smaller hybrid battery pack and lighter overall weight yield better mileage for mainly long distance driving.
One other deal killer on the plug-in version was the fact that you could not get it with even a 'space-saver' spare tire. Having a spare tire is a must for me...a can of 'fix-a-flat' just won't cut it, for me....

 

[alanh]

I have had a Kia EV6 for two years now and I'm loving it. I do have a 40A charger in my carport, so I don't need chargers around town. Longest road trip I've taken is Phoenix to Los Angeles. I didn't have any issues, though there is not a lot of chargers. Can't comment on the cold since I live in Phoenix, but I'm getting about 320 mi range around town and 250 mi at 75mph.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My Brother and SIL in Sonoma just replaced their Toyota RAV4 with a Subaru EV that uses Toyotas Electric Drive Train system.

They get over 400 miles on a charge which they do using their Solar Power in their Garage!

The downside is that it Cost over $60,000, which most folks can't afford.

 

[jis]

My Brother and SIL in Sonoma just replaced their Toyota RAV4 with a Subaru EV that uses Toyotas Electric Drive Train system.

They get over 400 miles on a charge which they do using their Solar Power in their Garage!

The downside is that it Cost over $60,000, which most folks can't afford.

Indeed. And setting up for Solar power is not cheap either. But once set up things become cheap for 30 or 40 years or until the time when things need to be replaced at life expiry. Unless of course one is enmeshed in one of the myriads of often shaky lease deals

 

[Rover]

Despite pledges and targets to move electric vehicles down the road, recent second quarter earnings from big car companies show loses. Ford and Stellantis are both struggling, and a majority of car companies are losing money on each electric vehicle sold -- no matter if it's a battery or plug in. Will big auto makers step away from electric or simply diversify their portfolios.

 

[jis]

Just follow Toyota's heterodox approach mixing multiple drive trains in the product mix. They are happy to take their profits from Hybrid Electric Vehicles, and doing more or less OK on Plugin Hybrids, and figuring out what to do with pure BEVs.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...-vehicles-spur-toyota-s-record-2023-24-profit