Electrical supply in Southwest Chief Bedroom?

[PVD]

Today, it would be a violation for accessible receptacles near a sink not to be GFCI type. Never saw a 2 bladed one of those. Can't imagine too many properties wouldn't retrofit anything old, for liability purposes alone.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I've been getting the idea that Amtrak trains are "behind the times' compared to European and Asian trains.

Only by 40 years, not 75.

In 2021 America's fastest trains still cannot match the average route speed of the first Shinkansen from 1964, so a little shy of 60 years by my estimate.

 

[basketmaker]

That's good to know. I've been getting the idea that Amtrak trains are "behind the times' compared to European and Asian trains.

I have used the "Shaver Only" outlet in bedrooms to charge camera batteries with no issues. And the seatback outlet for laptop, phone, GPS and scanner also never an issue.

 

[Mr.Technician]

This does beg the question- how much current can the HEP generator on a Genesis locomotive provide?

 

[PVD]

I think it's 800kw max, but it is not a separate alternator, I'm pretty sure it is off the main electrical system, as opposed say to a 59PHI which has a separate HEP generator

 

[BCL]

4-500 Watts? What kind of gears require that much energy? A typical laptop power adapter is no more than 100W, a typical USB charger is 10W (5V x 2A)...

There are several factors including efficiency and peak demands. My Apple 12W power adapter (efficiency level V) says 100-240V AC at 0.5A. So at minimum voltage (which isn't standard) it would have a max draw of 50W input. The output is rated at 2.4A at 5.2V, which is actually 12.48W, but then it's marked as 12W device. My 60W power adapter is similar but a max rating of 1.5A input, which would be 150W.

Of course this could just be a conservative rating, but I would expect that it wouldn't draw more than 50W at any input voltage.

The way most of these work is that there might be a peak draw when a device is connected, but they tend to settle down really quickly. Also, once a device completes charging, it won't draw much power unless it's being actively used.

 

[TaseMeBro]

There are several factors including efficiency and peak demands. My Apple 12W power adapter (efficiency level V) says 100-240V AC at 0.5A. So at minimum voltage (which isn't standard) it would have a max draw of 50W input. The output is rated at 2.4A at 5.2V, which is actually 12.48W, but then it's marked as 12W device. My 60W power adapter is similar but a max rating of 1.5A input, which would be 150W.

Of course this could just be a conservative rating, but I would expect that it wouldn't draw more than 50W at any input voltage.

The way most of these work is that there might be a peak draw when a device is connected, but they tend to settle down really quickly. Also, once a device completes charging, it won't draw much power unless it's being actively used.

I actually thought about buying a "Kill-a-Watt" meter to test it out, but then I realized my desktop computer's UPS can display current load.

With just my laptop plugged in, if it's *both* charging and running a high demand app, it's drawing 219 watts.

But, just as you say, if it's already charged and just "maintaining", and/or I'm running something less intense, it drops to the mid 60 watts.

 

[87YJ]

Who is going to bring on board a "espresso machine" for the real test!
What could go right or wrong.

 

[tgstubbs1]

I can't recall people complaining about breakers tripping in the bedrooms.

It could be a rare event.

 

[BCL]

Who is going to bring on board a "espresso machine" for the real test!
What could go right or wrong.

Wouldn't be any worse than a hair dryer or a hot water kettle. I'm pretty sure that both of them have been tried on a train.

I have heard of cases where someone brought a rice cooker to a national park cabin and the promptly killed power to the about a dozen cabins. I think they were only designed for 40W lighting plus maybe stuff like electric razors. But these days there are probably a lot more electronics and I'd be surprised if they have been been beefed up. Or maybe they've been removed.

 

[BCL]

I actually thought about buying a "Kill-a-Watt" meter to test it out, but then I realized my desktop computer's UPS can display current load.

With just my laptop plugged in, if it's *both* charging and running a high demand app, it's drawing 219 watts.

But, just as you say, if it's already charged and just "maintaining", and/or I'm running something less intense, it drops to the mid 60 watts.

I think in a steady state, it's going to be pretty efficient. Efficiency level V is supposed to be a minimum of 87% efficient at converting mains power to output with 49W to 249W output ratings. So a 60W power brick for a laptop is going to draw a little more than that once it's up and running. If it needs any more than what it can get out of the power adapter, it's going to draw it from the battery.

 

[drdumont]

We've been able to use a small 1000W hair dryer w/o problems. But if a bunch of people did at the same time, it would probably trip a breaker. WE usually use it on low heat (so it doesn't draw so much) and for minimal time.

So I wouldn't worry about it but I would be courteous and think about whether you need to draw power at the time you do (so charge things during dining hours and overnight) and spread out the use. Lowering the screen brightness while on power also helps.

Not everyone in the car shares the same breaker. Perhaps someone will chime in with how many breakers are in a car and how many rooms on a single breaker. My guess is two to four for the latter.

I have discovered a 15Amp breaker in the cubby with the trash can in each bedroom and the Family bedroom. It feeds the outlet (sometimes 2) in the room. Appears to be original construction, not an add on. Would make sense to have one or two buses down the car, with individual rooms protected. ISTR a couple of breakers in the electrical cabinet marked something like "convenience outlets". Haven't discovered a local breaker in the Roomette. Yet. I presume it is the same size.

 

[drdumont]

@caravanman

No doubt you're right about taking time to enjoy the train and scenery! We don't plan to stay cooped up in the bedroom the whole time on technology.. we both work in the same field, and haven't had a chance to sit down in person for several months to talk shop.

A big reason we picked the train over plane is so we could have that nice setting, take breaks, enjoy the train, etc.

Gotta work a little, though, to keep paying for those Amtrak Bedroom tix.

P.S. My mom's English.. How much electricity can it take to drag some tea briefly through a mug of milk? (Said in total humor, of course!)

Grab a Keurig Single Cup brewer. Then you can make hot water, coffee, tea, instant soup, whatever. Used by itself in a room it works just fine. I've made coffee for SAs and even another guest or two when the car coffee urns were discontinued.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Wouldn't be any worse than a hair dryer or a hot water kettle. I'm pretty sure that both of them have been tried on a train.

In fact, one of my trips on the EB, our SCA Charles (who was great, BTW) had a whole spread in roomette #1, including magazines, newspapers, cookies, candies, AND a regular electric teakettle - the kind that uses 1100-1500 Watts. He even provided the teabags, and yes, I used it. It did not blow any breakers.


When I decided to look for my own hot water pot, I searched hard for one that would not use so much electricity. I was quite happy with my little Bonavita. Bonus: it's stainless steel, not plastic. Caveat: ours was marked to use 500 Watts, and it did (we tested it with a Watts-up meter). It looks like the current model uses 900W, still less than a regular electric kettle.

 

[drdumont]

900Watts is 7.5 Amps at a nominal 120 Volts. So that's half the capacity of the breaker. No problem there.

 

[AFriendly]

My old Heritage Fleet 10-6 HEP schematics have 5 roomettes sharing a 20-amp circuit for convenience outlets (attached). These cars have been out of service for decades now and I have no idea if this was a rule of thumb carried forward to newer designs or something that was never repeated. In these cars, at least, you could be drawing up to roughly 2400 watts as long as nobody else is using the circuit.

 

[me_little_me]

I have discovered a 15Amp breaker in the cubby with the trash can in each bedroom and the Family bedroom. It feeds the outlet (sometimes 2) in the room. Appears to be original construction, not an add on. Would make sense to have one or two buses down the car, with individual rooms protected. ISTR a couple of breakers in the electrical cabinet marked something like "convenience outlets". Haven't discovered a local breaker in the Roomette. Yet. I presume it is the same size.

Kudos to you!

 

[Siegmund]

I have discovered a 15Amp breaker in the cubby with the trash can in each bedroom and the Family bedroom. It feeds the outlet (sometimes 2) in the room. Appears to be original construction, not an add on. Would make sense to have one or two buses down the car, with individual rooms protected. ISTR a couple of breakers in the electrical cabinet marked something like "convenience outlets". Haven't discovered a local breaker in the Roomette. Yet. I presume it is the same size.

My old Heritage Fleet 10-6 HEP schematics have 5 roomettes sharing a 20-amp circuit for convenience outlets (attached). These cars have been out of service for decades now and I have no idea if this was a rule of thumb carried forward to newer designs or something that was never repeated.

I don't think you will find local breakers in Superliner roomettes.

I have had my roomette outlet go out in the middle of the night, when I had nothing except a cellphone charger plugged in. The next morning the attendant reset a breaker behind the master panel downstairs by the door, after I told her about the problem. I didn't see the inside for the panel for but ten seconds, but had the impression there was one circuit for 1/3/5/7/9.

I would not be surprised if one person could get away with almost anything they wanted in their room, but someone down the hall plugged something in, or the communal coffee pot kicked on, could pop the circuit.

 

[drdumont]

I don't think you will find local breakers in Superliner roomettes.

I have had my roomette outlet go out in the middle of the night, when I had nothing except a cellphone charger plugged in. The next morning the attendant reset a breaker behind the master panel downstairs by the door, after I told her about the problem. I didn't see the inside for the panel for but ten seconds, but had the impression there was one circuit for 1/3/5/7/9.

I would not be surprised if one person could get away with almost anything they wanted in their room, but someone down the hall plugged something in, or the communal coffee pot kicked on, could pop the circuit.

I'll take a look the next time I ride. I just don't remember, the last time I looked at a panel. I'd bet the coffee are has its own circuit.

 

[alanh]

The coffee urn is going to be a minimum of 1000W, so it pretty much has to be on its own circuit.

 

[BCL]

In fact, one of my trips on the EB, our SCA Charles (who was great, BTW) had a whole spread in roomette #1, including magazines, newspapers, cookies, candies, AND a regular electric teakettle - the kind that uses 1100-1500 Watts. He even provided the teabags, and yes, I used it. It did not blow any breakers.
View attachment 25005

When I decided to look for my own hot water pot, I searched hard for one that would not use so much electricity. I was quite happy with my little Bonavita. Bonus: it's stainless steel, not plastic. Caveat: ours was marked to use 500 Watts, and it did (we tested it with a Watts-up meter). It looks like the current model uses 900W, still less than a regular electric kettle.

Obviously the train can handle providing a lot of power. I'm sure that all the electric appliances operated in the various cafe and/or dining cars have to be able to handle that kind of power by design. Still - I think the worry is about what's distributed to passenger sections, since most people don't bring lots of electronics. Theoretically, Amtrak doesn't even allow "household items" in baggage that includes appliances, although I'm not sure the someone packing a hot water kettle in luggage is really going to have to throw it out. I think it's more a matter of Amtrak not wanting people to use their generous baggage limits for moving.

 

[drdumont]

Well, with a 15 amp 120 V breaker you theoretically can pull 1800 watts at 120V. I wouldn't try that, but 900-1100 watts works jes' fine. I have had no pushback, only awe (or pity for the crazy people, but while the others are eating slop, we are having everything from fresh made Eggs McDumont sandwiches, hot soup, even popcorn with our coffee) when I have fired up my coffee maker, the sandwich maker and even the small microwave oven on our transcon trips. Obviously, power management is in action here.

The original AC outlets were installed in the bathrooms as far back as the 40s to accommodate those newfangled electric razors. SOme were motorized, others were simple buzzer type and neither cared about how dirty the power waveform was, and operated over a wido input voltage range. Drew very little current. Not sure if the original outlets came from the belt driven generators which originally powered the lights and fans on the old heavyweights.

There was also a little slot for you to dispose of used razor blades. Theres one of those in the medicine cabinet in my house.

Of course back then, heating was steam from either the seatm engine or a steam generator in some of the early Diesels. "Air Conditioning" was either air blown over ice in bunkers under the car, or steam operated. (Yes you can have chilled air coming from a steam operated device). I may even remember the name of that company one day.

I presume they don't want you putting expensive stuff in baggage and claiming breakage.

The Head End Power (HEP) is a nominal 480V 3 phase AC at some hefty current and power capacity which escapes me at the moment. It is capable of at least 500 Amps. This runs the lights, HVAC, kitchen (!) equipment, water heaters, etc. It is generated in one of the engines.

Ahh.. here's the picture.


Those big cables you see between the cars carry the HEP in a big closed loop, here are also cables for signaling, for data from stuff like wheel slip detectors and the like, as well as the air lines for braking.

 

[me_little_me]

Well, with a 15 amp 120 V breaker you theoretically can pull 1800 watts at 120V. I wouldn't try that, but 900-1100 watts works jes' fine. I have had no pushback, only awe (or pity for the crazy people, but while the others are eating slop, we are having everything from fresh made Eggs McDumont sandwiches, hot soup, even popcorn with our coffee) when I have fired up my coffee maker, the sandwich maker and even the small microwave oven on our transcon trips. Obviously, power management is in action here.

Well, your toys don't compare to the mini-portable combo propane, pellet, charcoal grill which we carry onboard to make steaks from our mini-fridge and slow cook the ribs (only on longer trips).

Along with that, we bring our window A/C and, after temporarily removing the room window which we install along with vent (for the grill) and a smaller window so we still have a view. Of course, we have to remove them and restore the window when the SCA converts between day and night or when we depart.

In the evening, the vent comes in handy for the small fire pit for s'mores.

The bidet attachment with its heated water and warming seat often takes enough power to preclude its use with the A/C.

 

[drdumont]

Whatever floats your boat. Be careful when opening the windows to dump the ashes. It irritates the crew when they blow back in.
We have one rollaboard with the supplies, which lives downstairs.
The "FLEX Meals" stuff would gag a vulture.
We take long trips for the enjoyment of the AMTRAK experience. If we ever get back to real meals on the
trains, then just the coffee pot will be with us.
Last big trip was DAL-CHI-LAX-DAL.
Next one planned is LAP-LAX-EMY-GBB-LAP. Probly in the Spring.

 

[PVD]

800 KW max HEP on a standard P42