Elevated Platforms off the NEC

[user 1215]

So, on my trip last weekend, I noticed that Jacksonville has a freight dock that is almost the perfect height to use the standard elevated entry ways onto the Amfleets & Viewliners. This would seem to be ideal for loading/unloading passengers with disabilities. Other than this one being too short for the Silvers, it got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

 

[Texan Eagle]

It got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

Because Superliners can't use them?

 

[PRR 60]

It got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

Because Superliners can't use them?

Plus, in many cases, high-level platforms do not provide adequate clearance for modern freight car cross-sections.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Chicago has few stations with high platforms, but only Metra Electric and South Shore lines use them. Amtrak could use one in Homewood though.

 

[George Harris]

It got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

Because Superliners can't use them?

Plus, in many cases, high-level platforms do not provide adequate clearance for modern freight car cross-sections.

One that will clear a standard frieght car plus the the smallest of allowances for any sort of rocking would not meed ADA requirements anyway. In additon, where the track is not under Amtrak ownership, the railroad owner would not allow it. Also, a platform close enough to not need a fairly long bridge plate would not need anybody's clearance standards or the clearance standards that are law in most states.

For reference: The standard freight car "Plates" are all 10'-8" wide, equals 5'-4" from track centerline. The standard passenger car is 10'-0" wide at car floor height and the superliner is 10'-3" at the same height and its floor height as well. The ADA requirement is a gap of not more than 3 inches at an elevation within 5/8 inch of the car floor elevation.

The Shinkansen cars are 11'-1" wide maximum. 11'-0 5/8" at car floor elevation of 4'-3" above top of rail, so a platform for them meeting ADA, say set at 5'-9" from track centerline, would clear a standard AAR width freight car by 5 inches. Even though a few inches wider than AAR standard, the Shinkansen width cars could go anywhere in the US with the possible exception of those areas now having high level platforms. (A nice additional advantage of these cars is that their width and 3+2 seating means that they can carry more people for the amount of metal they haul around. Their seats are wider, or certainly feel that way, than airline seats even with the 3+2 arrangement.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

So, on my trip last weekend, I noticed that Jacksonville has a freight dock that is almost the perfect height to use the standard elevated entry ways onto the Amfleets & Viewliners. This would seem to be ideal for loading/unloading passengers with disabilities. Other than this one being too short for the Silvers, it got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

The platform you saw at Jacksonville is the old mail platform. I asked my SCA about it when we went through last year.

As others have mentioned, the reason that more stations don't have high platforms is because freight cars need wider clearances. There is a work around. Amtrak could construct platforms on a gauntlet track or using short sidings off the freight main (see the MARC commuter rail station at Greenbelt, Maryland, for example):



In other cases, the commuter railroads would pose a problem. For example, VRE uses equipment that is only compatible with low platforms (like superliners). If Amtrak built a high platform at Alexandria or Fredericksburg, for example, that platform could no longer be used for VRE.

By the way, this is why a superliner can't be used on high platforms:

 

[PRR 60]

...

By the way, this is why a superliner can't be used on high platforms:

That does not look so bad. They could have a small, folding step-ladder inside the car, and you could crawl in and out on your hands and knees. To ensure capability, they could limit passengers to those who had experience serving at sea in the Navy.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That does not look so bad. They could have a small, folding step-ladder inside the car, and you could crawl in and out on your hands and knees. To ensure capability, they could limit passengers to those who had experience serving at sea in the Navy.

Being sarcastic or just joking?

 

[Eric S]

Chicago has few stations with high platforms, but only Metra Electric and South Shore lines use them. Amtrak could use one in Homewood though.

But then the City of New Orleans could not stop there. And, when the Illini and Saluki are re-equipped with bilevel equipment in the next few years, no Amtrak trains could stop there.

 

[PRR 60]

That does not look so bad. They could have a small, folding step-ladder inside the car, and you could crawl in and out on your hands and knees. To ensure capability, they could limit passengers to those who had experience serving at sea in the Navy.

Being sarcastic or just joking?

Uh oh. I forgot to add a smiley!

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Chicago has few stations with high platforms, but only Metra Electric and South Shore lines use them. Amtrak could use one in Homewood though.

But then the City of New Orleans could not stop there. And, when the Illini and Saluki are re-equipped with bilevel equipment in the next few years, no Amtrak trains could stop there.

Thats too bad, though. Superliner with high platform accessibility wont work I guess. Way too big I imagine.

 

[MattW]

This topic reminds me of a question I had from my just completed New York and Boston trip. The high level platforms at places like Penn Station, Carle Place, and Route 128 all seemed to have at least 3 to 4 inches of gap between the platform and car (Amfleet, LIRR M7, MBTA bi and single level, Acela Express). Subway systems however have horizontal gaps down in the half-inch range I've noticed. Why the discrepancy? The gap wasn't too big a deal, but it was a little annoying to have to "jump" our luggage over the wider railway gap vs. just dragging it behind us on the subways.

 

[fairviewroad]

it got me wondering why more non-NEC stations don't have elevated platforms.

Other than the NEC, what Amtrak stations do have elevated platforms? I can think of Lancaster, Elizabethtown and Harrisburg

on the Keystone line. And there are several on the Empire Service line, IIRC.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Chicago has few stations with high platforms, but only Metra Electric and South Shore lines use them. Amtrak could use one in Homewood though.

How would you load the CONO? The elevated platforms of Metra Electric and South Shore are the only high level platforms in Chicago or anywhere west of the NEC as far as I know.

 

[Acela150]

Union, NJ is a case where there is a high level platform and a gauntlet track will let freights go by without problem.

 

[afigg]

This topic reminds me of a question I had from my just completed New York and Boston trip. The high level platforms at places like Penn Station, Carle Place, and Route 128 all seemed to have at least 3 to 4 inches of gap between the platform and car (Amfleet, LIRR M7, MBTA bi and single level, Acela Express). Subway systems however have horizontal gaps down in the half-inch range I've noticed. Why the discrepancy? The gap wasn't too big a deal, but it was a little annoying to have to "jump" our luggage over the wider railway gap vs. just dragging it behind us on the subways.

Subway systems are, of course, "closed" systems. The only cars that run on a subway or rapid transit metro line are specifically built to fit the clearances for the system or a particular line for the older systems. Amtrak, LIRR, MBTA, Metro-North all run on heavy rail systems which may see a wide range of different equipment.

A 1/2 inch gap is a very tight tolerance if the car rocks back and forth at all. I'll have to look more carefully at the gaps for the DC Metro system cars and platforms, but I would guess the typical gap is an inch or more. Which is a small gap to step over or pull wheeled luggage over.

 

[afigg]

Other than the NEC, what Amtrak stations do have elevated platforms? I can think of Lancaster, Elizabethtown and Harrisburg

on the Keystone line. And there are several on the Empire Service line, IIRC.

Portland ME, IIRC, has a high level platform. May be some others on the Downeaster route; some with mini-highs as I recall.

The plans are to upgrade all the Keystone East stations to high level platforms. Same for the New Haven to Springfield corridor. Don't know whether the 2 new stations being built in MA on the CT River line would have high level platforms, but there are ADA compliance considerations for the platforms that have to be addressed for new stations in the east.

The plans for a new station in Raleigh NC include a high level platform long enough to serve the Silver Star with a single stop that would be between 2 side tracks off of the main freight tracks so freight clearance is not a problem. There may be other stations on the Piedmont corridor that have high level platforms; not sure.

Norfolk VA which was discussed in an other thread here may be getting a high level platform. Any stations south of DC on the Crescent, Silver/Palmetto routes that have high level platforms?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Albany, NY is another

 

[George Harris]

This topic reminds me of a question I had from my just completed New York and Boston trip. The high level platforms at places like Penn Station, Carle Place, and Route 128 all seemed to have at least 3 to 4 inches of gap between the platform and car (Amfleet, LIRR M7, MBTA bi and single level, Acela Express). Subway systems however have horizontal gaps down in the half-inch range I've noticed. Why the discrepancy? The gap wasn't too big a deal, but it was a little annoying to have to "jump" our luggage over the wider railway gap vs. just dragging it behind us on the subways.

I think you are underestimating the gaps. I cannot think of anybody that would even think about setting a 1/2 inch gap. Elevator gaps are in that range and the lateral movement of an elevator in its shaft is much more tightly controlled than any rapid transit train could be. All ADA requires is that a platform gap be 3 inches or less.

 

[jis]

Albany, NY is another

On the Empire Corridor Yonkers, Croton-Harmon, Poughkeepsie, Albany, and Syracuse currently have high level platforms. Schenectady is scheduled tog et high level platform when the station is rebuilt. It is possible that eventually Rhinecliff and Hudson may get high level platforms, with one of the tracks having gauntlet for allowing extra wide freight to pass.

Incidentally freight cars that are consistent with standard plates should not have a problem passing by a standard platform. It is some non standard cars that would have a problem.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Doesnt Montreal have High platform as well?

 

[jis]

Doesnt Montreal have High platform as well?

Yes Montreal Central Station has high platform. But it is not on the Empire Corridor.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Albany, NY is another

On the Empire Corridor Yonkers, Croton-Harmon, Poughkeepsie, Albany, and Syracuse currently have high level platforms. Schenectady is scheduled tog et high level platform when the station is rebuilt. It is possible that eventually Rhinecliff and Hudson may get high level platforms, with one of the tracks having gauntlet for allowing extra wide freight to pass.

Incidentally freight cars that are consistent with standard plates should not have a problem passing by a standard platform. It is some non standard cars that would have a problem.

While a major technicality one can board an Empire Service train in Niagara Falls from a "high level platform" I have been boarded in BC through the customs area, and a bridge plate into the car. I know that's kind of an odd set up, but I thought it was worth sharing.

 

[TCRT]

Other than the NEC, what Amtrak stations do have elevated platforms? I can think of Lancaster, Elizabethtown and Harrisburg

on the Keystone line. And there are several on the Empire Service line, IIRC.

Portland ME, IIRC, has a high level platform. May be some others on the Downeaster route; some with mini-highs as I recall.

Portland is partially high-level, and I think all of the other Downeaster platforms have mini-highs since they are all quite new. The exception is Woburn, MA, which has a full-length high platform. I am not sure, but the videos people have posted of the new stations in Brunswick and Freeport seem to show full-length high platforms as well.

Another high-level in Massachusetts is Worcester, which is a full-length high platform (this station was re-opened about ten years ago, hence the modern platform). Further down the inland route, Framingham has a mini-high.

Oh, and at least some of the disused stations on the Cape Codder route have mini-highs.

 

[mfastx]

While I understand why there cannot be high platforms on most Amtrak Stations, I think there should be level boarding platforms at all Amtrak Stations (level boarding platforms for superliners would be low enough to allow for freight clearance.