Elizabeth Line and some additional bits about Transport for London

[Deni]

It’s more of an extension of the Charing Cross branch than a stand-alone branch. Kennington has full grade-separation with four platforms - one platform for each branch (Charing Cross/Bank) in each direction - and cross-platform interchange (i.e. the physical junction between the two branches is south of the station). In addition there is a single-track loop allowing southbound trains from the Charing Cross branch to terminate and run round into the northbound Charing Cross branch platform. The extension to Battersea is formed with a westbound facing junction out of this loop, and an eastbound trailing junction into it, meaning that trains to/from Battersea can run only from/to the Charing Cross branch - it will be necessary to change trains to/from the Bank branch.
The loop at Kennington has also been made bi-directional, allowing a shuttle service to be run on the new branch.

I've heard some people are wondering if the Northern Line may eventually rebrand as separate lines.

 

[JontyMort]

There is also an extension of the Bakerloo Line beyond Elephant and Castle in the works.

The preferred route is safeguarded, but the money isn’t. They’re saying 2030s.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The preferred route is safeguarded, but the money isn’t. They’re saying 2030s.

Bakerloo also needs new trains. The line has the oldest on the Underground (1972). That would probably take priority over an extension.

 

[JontyMort]

Bakerloo also needs new trains. The line has the oldest on the Underground (1972). That would probably take priority over an extension.

Yes, you know you’re getting on a bit when the “new” stock is 50 years old. As a 13-year-old in 1970, coming in from the north-west on the Met and cross-platform interchange to a 1938 Bakerloo train at Finchley Road to get to the bright lights seemed the height of sophistication.

 

[cirdan]

Yes, you know you’re getting on a bit when the “new” stock is 50 years old. As a 13-year-old in 1970, coming in from the north-west on the Met and cross-platform interchange to a 1938 Bakerloo train at Finchley Road to get to the bright lights seemed the height of sophistication.

When I was a kid in the 1970s and 1980s, the 1938 stock was still running and I used to love riding it whenever we visited London. The baritone roar of the motors and the drafts through open windows were quite impressive. Being a kid at the time, thinking this train type dated to 1938 made them seem ancient beyond all measure in my eyes. It is a sobering thought that today's "modern" trains are actually now older than the 1938 trains were back then.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Yes, you know you’re getting on a bit when the “new” stock is 50 years old. As a 13-year-old in 1970, coming in from the north-west on the Met and cross-platform interchange to a 1938 Bakerloo train at Finchley Road to get to the bright lights seemed the height of sophistication.

The East London Line before it was "Overgrounded" was a virtual rolling museum. I remember in 1971 seeing Q stock (I think) from the 1920's still running on that line. That trip I also got to ride the '38's as well as CO/CP stock on the District/Circle line, although the C stock were already making inroads there.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Wasn't the Isle of Wight running '38 Stock until they got some of the newer stock in the last couple years? By newer I mean post-WWII.

 

[JontyMort]

Wasn't the Isle of Wight running '38 Stock until they got some of the newer stock in the last couple years? By newer I mean post-WWII.

Yes, the 1938 stock lasted until 2019. They‘re now using ex-District Line D78 stock, which is hardly in the first flush of youth (early 1980s), albeit completely refurbished.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Yes, the 1938 stock lasted until 2019. They‘re now using ex-District Line D78 stock, which is hardly in the first flush of youth (early 1980s), albeit completely refurbished.

Thanks, yes, definitely post-war!

 

[BlackDiamond]

Yes, the 1938 stock lasted until 2019. They‘re now using ex-District Line D78 stock, which is hardly in the first flush of youth (early 1980s), albeit completely refurbished.

They look pretty nice. Sounds like they have AC traction now.

Island Line new stock video

 

[mjt49]

Funnily enough, London *has* recently had an extension. The Northern Line (Charing Cross branch) was extended last year from Stockwell to Battersea Power Station (redeveloped for residential use) with an intermediate station at Nine Elms, this being the closest station to the new US embassy.

You mean Kennington to Battersea Power Station.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

You mean Kennington to Battersea Power Station.

Or Battersea Power Station Station.... yuk yuk yuk

 

[cirdan]

The East London Line before it was "Overgrounded" was a virtual rolling museum. I remember in 1971 seeing Q stock (I think) from the 1920's still running on that line. That trip I also got to ride the '38's as well as CO/CP stock on the District/Circle line, although the C stock were already making inroads there.

Yes, the East London line always was a special place.

It also ran tube trains (as in small clearance) for a while. I can't remember which type though.

The line crosses the Thames using the original Brunel tunnel which was originally a pedestrian tunnel and only later converted for rail usage, and is AFAIK the oldest rail tunnel still in public use anywhere in the world. A real gem.

 

[cirdan]

Yes, the 1938 stock lasted until 2019. They‘re now using ex-District Line D78 stock, which is hardly in the first flush of youth (early 1980s), albeit completely refurbished.

I believe the 1938 stock on the Isle of Wight were the oldest ex-London tube trains still in scheduled service anywhere at the time. The London Transport Museum has some older equipment still but it only rarely operates (it is based at the Acton depot, which is normally not accessible to the public but there are occasional open days, and they use them on occasional, but very rare tours on the underground network).

Now that the 1938 stock chapter has closed on the Isle of Wight, the rare distinction of operating the oldest tube trains has passed to another island railroad. Alderney in the Channel Islands, where two cars of 1959 stock are operated on a tourist line, pulled by a diesel engine.

Here is a youtube movie about that line

 

[JontyMort]

Yes, the East London line always was a special place.

It also ran tube trains (as in small clearance) for a while. I can't remember which type though.

The line crosses the Thames using the original Brunel tunnel which was originally a pedestrian tunnel and only later converted for rail usage, and is AFAIK the oldest rail tunnel still in public use anywhere in the world. A real gem.

Indeed. It was Marc Brunel - admittedly with assistance from young Isambard.

 

[Trollopian]

The Queen had a remarkable worth ethic and devotion to duty and I'm glad that she lived long enough to inaugurate the new line named in her honor. Here's video from May 2022 (click through to the Guardian article;no paywall, but voluntary contributions welcome). Excerpt: "Kofi Duah, an Elizabeth line customer experience assistant, said he was 'thrilled' to present an Oyster card to the Queen and show her how it could be topped up on a machine. The Queen did not top up the card, which was preloaded with £5 of credit." I would pay much more than £5 for that card.

Apologies if it has been linked before; a quick search through this thread didn't reveal it.

Thank you, ma'am.

Queen makes surprise appearance at Elizabeth line opening ceremony

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

The Queen had a remarkable worth ethic and devotion to duty and I'm glad that she lived long enough to inaugurate the new line named in her honor. Here's video from May 2022 (click through to the Guardian article;no paywall, but voluntary contributions welcome). Excerpt: "Kofi Duah, an Elizabeth line customer experience assistant, said he was 'thrilled' to present an Oyster card to the Queen and show her how it could be topped up on a machine. The Queen did not top up the card, which was preloaded with £5 of credit." I would pay much more than £5 for that card.

Apologies if it has been linked before; a quick search through this thread didn't reveal it.

Thank you, ma'am.

Queen makes surprise appearance at Elizabeth line opening ceremony

Passenger Train Journal (2022-3, issue 292, page 17) has a lovely picture of Andy Byford (Transport for London Commissioner) handing the Queen flowers that day.

 

[JontyMort]

Passenger Train Journal (2022-3, issue 292, page 17) has a lovely picture of Andy Byford (Transport for London Commissioner) handing the Queen flowers that day.

I suspect the Queen was a transport geek at heart. She obviously loved the Royal Yacht but also seems to have enjoyed travelling by train. Until recently, her normal practice was to travel to Sandringham for the Christmas holidays by scheduled train from King’s Cross to King’s Lynn.

 

[cirdan]

I suspect the Queen was a transport geek at heart. She obviously loved the Royal Yacht but also seems to have enjoyed travelling by train. Until recently, her normal practice was to travel to Sandringham for the Christmas holidays by scheduled train from King’s Cross to King’s Lynn.

absolutely.

there was (and is) of course also the Royal Train, typically used for longer trips and more or less forming a self contained unit with catering and sleeping accomodation for the royals, staff and security.

 

[JontyMort]

Readers who have been following the staged opening may wish to know that through running from west of Paddington to the central section of the line starts on November 6. That should be of particular help to anyone arriving at Heathrow, allowing through access to the whole line via the low level platforms at Paddington (though a few trains will still terminate in the main line terminus). The same applies at Liverpool Street from the east.
Bond Street station has now opened - I took my first (admittedly short - Paddington to Bond Street) journey on the line on Monday, the opening day.

 

[mjt49]

Readers who have been following the staged opening may wish to know that through running from west of Paddington to the central section of the line starts on November 6. That should be of particular help to anyone arriving at Heathrow, allowing through access to the whole line via the low level platforms at Paddington (though a few trains will still terminate in the main line terminus). The same applies at Liverpool Street from the east.
Bond Street station has now opened - I took my first (admittedly short - Paddington to Bond Street) journey on the line on Monday, the opening day.

November 6 is a Sunday. It will be the first week of regular Sunday running through the central section.

Indeed. It was Marc Brunel - admittedly with assistance from young Isambard.

I don't know if it was the oldest rail tunnel, but it was the first underwater tunnel in the world.

 

[user 6862]

Readers who have been following the staged opening may wish to know that through running from west of Paddington to the central section of the line starts on November 6. That should be of particular help to anyone arriving at Heathrow, allowing through access to the whole line via the low level platforms at Paddington (though a few trains will still terminate in the main line terminus). The same applies at Liverpool Street from the east.
Bond Street station has now opened - I took my first (admittedly short - Paddington to Bond Street) journey on the line on Monday, the opening day.

That's interesting Jonty as I was looking at the journey from Heathrow T3 to Essex just this morning. I believe Transport for London (TfL) have published a 'dated from' route map of the line showing it as a fully joined up route but with a few exceptions, it ties in with your comments.

As someone with a broad knowledge of UK rail do you know which station in the Heathrow T2/T3 complex the finalised Elizabeth line will run from as we will be returning from Egypt mid December and need to travel from Heathrow to the last but one EL station in the east, Brentwood.

 

[JontyMort]

That's interesting Jonty as I was looking at the journey from Heathrow T3 to Essex just this morning. I believe Transport for London (TfL) have published a 'dated from' route map of the line showing it as a fully joined up route but with a few exceptions, it ties in with your comments.

As someone with a broad knowledge of UK rail do you know which station in the Heathrow T2/T3 complex the finalised Elizabeth line will run from as we will be returning from Egypt mid December and need to travel from Heathrow to the last but one EL station in the east, Brentwood.

There’s actually a bona fide timetable on TfL’s website. Here’s 6 November to early December:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-november-2022.pdfand 11 December onwards:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-december-2022.pdf
I think the later version is there merely because 11 December is the date of the national changeover to the winter timetable - i.e. it doesn’t represent a step change in the EL service.

The station at T2/T3 is the same as the Heathrow Express (but the Piccadilly Line is separate). One wonders if there is much point in HX once things bed down - more expensive to get you halfway there (admittedly slightly more quickly).

Coincidentally I am just passing Airport Junction as I type this.

 

[user 6862]

There’s actually a bona fide timetable on TfL’s website. Here’s 6 November to early December:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-november-2022.pdfand 11 December onwards:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-december-2022.pdf
I think the later version is there merely because 11 December is the date of the national changeover to the winter timetable - i.e. it doesn’t represent a step change in the EL service.

The station at T2/T3 is the same as the Heathrow Express (but the Piccadilly Line is separate). One wonders if there is much point in HX once things bed down - more expensive to get you halfway there (admittedly slightly more quickly).

Coincidentally I am just passing Airport Junction as I type this.

Hope you're not driving!

Thanks for that. We always used the Piccadilly line as the most convenient in particular with bags, but a connected up Elizabeth Line would be heaven direct from Brentwood and the new equipment that comes with it is very comfortable to ride.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I will say, have to say, actually, that the ELine is fantastic - will be even better not having to change at Paddington too. Insanely smooth ride - and the new stations are spacious and fantastic.