Empire Builder 2021-22 obscene pricing

[rtabern]

We decided to take the Empire Builder back home to the Midwest from a trip to Guam and Hawaii we have planned for December 2021 nto January 2022.

We snagged one bedroom on #28 out of PDX on 1/1/22 with points.

Went back and looked and the cost of the other 4 bedrooms are over $2,450 for two people. Totally obscene!

I love trains... but in the future.... unless I am paying with CC points... I'll take the $2450 and both of us can fly to Hawaii roundtrip first class... I can imagine ever dropping that much on a 2 night bedroom... esp that time of year it's dark through the Columbia Gorge and Rockies going east.

 

[Sidney]

Prices on sleepers are outrageous. Low bucket senior fare for one from Chicago to Seattle or Portland is $505 and they are scarce

 

[20th Century Rider]

This is not the right way for Amtrak to stem its losses... albeit due to COVID.

Amtrak is cutting food service, reducing frequencies, and raising prices... discouraging ridership to further increase losses.

As the old saying goes... "cutting off your nose to spite your face!"

Found this article somewhat interesting... "Amtrak is presented with the potential for two futures: In one is a $25 billion expansion to update national intercity rail with contemporary patterns of settlement. In the other is fiscal crisis and continued service cuts."

We shall see what happens!

https://www.planetizen.com/news/202...trak-planning-expansion-while-cutting-service

 

[20th Century Rider]

We decided to take the Empire Builder back home to the Midwest from a trip to Guam and Hawaii we have planned for December 2021 nto January 2022.

We snagged one bedroom on #28 out of PDX on 1/1/22 with points.

Went back and looked and the cost of the other 4 bedrooms are over $2,450 for two people. Totally obscene!

I love trains... but in the future.... unless I am paying with CC points... I'll take the $2450 and both of us can fly to Hawaii roundtrip first class... I can imagine ever dropping that much on a 2 night bedroom... esp that time of year it's dark through the Columbia Gorge and Rockies going east.

A bedroom on #28 would run as high as a jaw dropping $900 in the 'good old days.'

I'm speechless!

 

[niemi24s]

That's the high bucket price (actually $2464 for PDX to CHI). Your current alternatives on Amtrak are:

• 3 Jan '22 on the CS and CZ for $1172
• 4 Jan '22 on the EB for $1144

 

[neroden]

There are people willing to pay this much. And an absurdly limited supply of rooms.

Of course, at this point, Amtrak would do better to offer more rooms. By, you know, *running the train daily*, for starters. Yes, each room's price would be a bit lower, but they'd sell more rooms total and so raise more profit. But I think we all know that.

...expect the prices to come down some once they start scheduling the trains daily again.

 

[TinCan782]

Keep checking!
Last fall, I booked #8 SEA>MSP bedroom for next summer for nearly $2300 (I paid in points)
About a week later the fare went down. I called and got a points refund (equivalent to $1200) giving me the new fare for the same reservation.
It was easier to check things like that when AmSnag was still up and running.
Just checked as I creating this post: The fare for that same date and accommodation is about $1600.

 

[20th Century Rider]

So here's the catch 22! If you wait to book when the pandemic has subsided, you will be joining so many other with pent up demand to get out and travel... and that is sure to raise pricing.

If you book now [or by March 31] you can grab something but change with no added fee. I did try to go to the Amtrak website to check this out but the site is down... something else to take into consideration with so much uncertainty going on!

 

[jimdex]

The question I've always had is, if they're charging these outrageous prices and still losing money on each room, wouldn't they lose even more on each room if the lowered the prices? Or would the economy of scale be so dramatic that it would make up for the lower fares?

 

[20th Century Rider]

The question I've always had is, if they're charging these outrageous prices and still losing money on each room, wouldn't they lose even more on each room if the lowered the prices? Or would the economy of scale be so dramatic that it would make up for the lower fares?

Yup! Amtrak is a public conveyance... so increase funding, frequency, [and maybe a little more for food] and that 'economy of scale' would reduce losses.

 

[niemi24s]

I'm always bemused by those who get their panties all in a wad after someone complains about a fare being obscene (high bucket) on a certain date. They seem to fail to realize fares are not always that high. F'rinstance, for the five week (14 Dec - 15 Jan) and fifteen trip period for train #28 in a Bedroom...

• seven of the fares were at low bucket and
• eight were at high bucket.

 

[Sidney]

Being retired,I have the luxury of choosing dates that have low bucket. It can be frustrating if you are tied to a certain date. Only thing you can do is pay the price and hope it comes down or wait and see if it gets lowered.

I've always paid low bucket. When I was working full time I would check the lowest prices and book it and then tell my employer the days I wanted off. I usually booked six months out so there was never any hassle.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The question I've always had is, if they're charging these outrageous prices and still losing money on each room, wouldn't they lose even more on each room if the lowered the prices? Or would the economy of scale be so dramatic that it would make up for the lower fares?

The general thought is that the sleeping cars are not losing money and are in fact helping to lower the loss of the long distance trains.

There is of course no way to prove this with Amtrak’s accounting.

 

[Qapla]

They seem to fail to realize fares are not always that high.

Maybe they are not the ones missing the point ... even low bucket fares are too high !!!

 

[niemi24s]

Even if some folks got a free sleeper ride, they'd then whimper, snivel, moan & groan about the food. There's always those who'd complain even if they were to be hung with a brand new rope.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Even if some folks got a free sleeper ride, they'd then whimper, snivel, moan & groan about the food.

And then some folks would whine,
moan & groan about them having an opinion about it and sharing their thoughts on an Amtrak discussion board.

 

[bms]

Variable Pricing is the hot new thing in economics, because every business thinks it makes them more money. I kind of think the theory will be discredited in a decade or so, because people need to know how much something will cost in order to save for it and buy it.

I feel like on most Amtrak trains, there are a few sleeper rooms that could have been sold - but they got into the highest priced bucket so no one would pay for them.

(caveat: I got my Economics degree in 2005 so almost everything I learned in school is considered wrong now by economists who just graduated, or who read all the literature)

 

[Sidney]

I was on 27 last month. Every roomette in my car was sold. Only one bedroom was used the entire trip. Can anyone explain why Amtrak couldn't have reduced prices once on board so people in roomettes could have upgraded to a bedroom? From Chi to Pdx,say at $100 additional I would have gladly moved to a bedroom. They were vacant the entire trip. Why doesn't Amtrak allow this? The extra revenue would be a positive. Is there any logical reason they don't do this?

 

[niemi24s]

[Note to self: Resist clicking on Show Ignored Content]

 

[bms]

I was on 27 last month. Every roomette in my car was sold. Only one bedroom was used the entire trip. Can anyone explain why Amtrak couldn't have reduced prices once on board so people in roomettes could have upgraded to a bedroom? From Chi to Pdx,say at $100 additional I would have gladly moved to a bedroom. They were vacant the entire trip. Why doesn't Amtrak allow this? The extra revenue would be a positive. Is there any logical reason they don't do this?

I feel like the Bedrooms are hard to sell because the Roomette already accommodates two people. And they usually cost a lot more.

 

[Willbridge]

Variable Pricing is the hot new thing in economics, because every business thinks it makes them more money. I kind of think the theory will be discredited in a decade or so, because people need to know how much something will cost in order to save for it and buy it.

I feel like on most Amtrak trains, there are a few sleeper rooms that could have been sold - but they got into the highest priced bucket so no one would pay for them.

(caveat: I got my Economics degree in 2005 so almost everything I learned in school is considered wrong now by economists who just graduated, or who read all the literature)

I took one Economics class in the mid-60's but when we instituted a form of seasonal demand-based pricing on the Portland<>Salem commuter club bus it worked like a charm. HOWEVER, the low price for summer months was lower than the cost of driving to work with some vacation days assumed. Ridership grew that summer, though it had dropped during the two preceding summers. We retained the new customers in the autumn when the price went up.

From this and other experiences I'd say that Variable Pricing works but only when the low fare sells surplus capacity at rates that match or undercut the competition AND where there is some predictability for people who plan, such as our monthly commuter bus fare or the old CN Red, White and Blue fares.

Now perhaps you can explain to me how a Reverse Demand Curve works...

 

[Old MM]

I'm always bemused by those who get their panties all in a wad after someone complains about a fare being obscene (high bucket) on a certain date. They seem to fail to realize fares are not always that high. F'rinstance, for the five week (14 Dec - 15 Jan) and fifteen trip period for train #28 in a Bedroom...

• seven of the fares were at low bucket and
• eight were at high bucket.

And what were those fares?

 

[Old MM]

Even if some folks got a free sleeper ride, they'd then whimper, snivel, moan & groan about the food. There's always those who'd complain even if they were to be hung with a brand new rope.

Give me a free sleeper ride and I promise you won't hear a word of complaint from me about the food. Not one word.
Also, if someone is going to be hung by a rope, the newness of the rope probably isn't the more concerning issue.

 

[niemi24s]

And what were those fares?

Fares at high bucket, low bucket and the three buckets in between for one adult on the EB and all other LD trains can be found here: Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Fares at high bucket, low bucket and the three buckets in between for one adult on the EB and all other LD trains can be found here: Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets)

Is that chart up to date? I’m seeing $2100 for a bedroom on March 10.