Empire Builder accident (9/25/21)

[zephyr17]

last summer a couple ecoterrorists were caught putting shunts between tracks on BNSF tracks north of Everett. I am not sure what this is supposed to do, but they said it could cause derailment.

King 5 news report

Probably the derailment mechanism from a shunt is a signal suddenly dropping to red without prior signals reflecting it (Approach, etc). That could cause the engineer to have to put the train in emergency, and that sudden, sharp braking has caused derailments on some occasions. Usually not, but it is certainly possible.

They threw the book at the perps, though. They are facing 20 years. One pled out and will likely have a much shorter sentence, but the other took it to trial and was found guilty. I imagine she's going spend a long, long time as a guest of the Federal prison system.

 

[zephyr17]

watch this: they seem to hint at track and state train was within speed.
they clearly state train derailed before it reached the switch .

Great link, thanks for posting it. And yes, NTSB spokesman clearly stated that it derailed prior to the siding switch. Shows you what I know.

 

[TC_NYC]

I have an EB trip coming up Friday morning as the first part of a loop trip (Spokane-Portland-Los Angeles-Chicago-Spokane). If the EB isn't running between Spokane and Portland by then, there are plenty of ways to get to Portland from Spokane. If, however, it is not going through to Spokane from Chicago on the return (scheduled to leave from Chicago on the 6th) that might be more problematic. Right now my thoughts are with the families of those affected by this tragedy and the members of the NTSB who are given the task of determining the cause of this derailment no matter how long it takes. To me whether the train runs is much less important.

I would sign up for trip insurance on the allianz website (will cost only ~$20-$30 for a single trip). If Amtrak cancels the CHI-SPK segment you can get the trip insurance to pay for a flight (or even pay for a flight from somewhere like Minot to Spokane).

 

[Bob Dylan]

Getting lots of TV on National and Local Channels!

Sad, but still the Safest way to Travel by far!

 

[George K]

Sad, but still the Safest way to Travel by far!

Actually, per-passenger-mile, air travel is safest, with bus being second. Rail travel is #3 as I posted a while ago.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Actually, per-passenger-mile, air travel is safest, with bus being second. Rail travel is #3 as I posted a while ago.

Yep, but Airline Disasters tend to be like Cruise Ship Disasters, Multiple Deaths, even though they are rare..

I'll still take the Train over the others when it's practical, have actually probably flown more miles in my life than on trains due to my Work and International Travel!

Of course the Most Dangerous is Traveling via Automobile!

 

[jebr]

Of course the Most Dangerous is Traveling via Automobile!

Yes - and by far you're safer taking the train, plane, or bus over a private automobile. According to the National Safety Council, you're 9x less likely to die by taking the bus over a car, 17x less likely if it's a train, and 1,606x less likely if it's a plane. Plus, the rate of deaths on non-automobile travel are so low that at least some of the differences could simply be artifacts of the very low number of fatalities seen on those modes of transportation.

I hope that the NTSB finds the root cause of this and we're able to use this as a learning experience to make death by train travel even less likely in the future. I'm also quite comfortable with my upcoming trips on planes, trains, and buses, even in light of this latest tragedy.

 

[WWW]

Yes - and by far you're safer taking the train, plane, or bus over a private automobile. According to the National Safety Council, you're 9x less likely to die by taking the bus over a car, 17x less likely if it's a train, and 1,606x less likely if it's a plane. Plus, the rate of deaths on non-automobile travel are so low that at least some of the differences could simply be artifacts of the very low number of fatalities seen on those modes of transportation.

I hope that the NTSB finds the root cause of this and we're able to use this as a learning experience to make death by train travel even less likely in the future. I'm also quite comfortable with my upcoming trips on planes, trains, and buses, even in light of this latest tragedy.

The only serious current problem to contend with is that damn virus - All my travel plans to travel by rail to WV for the ACE event postponed
till same time next year.

BUT very sad for those folks on the EB #7 who had their travel plans interrupted not postponed !

 

[user 14106]

Interesting, and morbid, the comments about “ejection” I wonder if one or more of the deaths was outside…

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Interesting, and morbid, the comments about “ejection” I wonder if one or more of the deaths was outside…

If someone was ejected, I wonder if maybe it was through an end door when the cars split....like someone was in the process of passing between cars.

 

[user 14106]

Yes - and by far you're safer taking the train, plane, or bus over a private automobile. According to the National Safety Council, you're 9x less likely to die by taking the bus over a car, 17x less likely if it's a train, and 1,606x less likely if it's a plane. Plus, the rate of deaths on non-automobile travel are so low that at least some of the differences could simply be artifacts of the very low number of fatalities seen on those modes of transportation.

I hope that the NTSB finds the root cause of this and we're able to use this as a learning experience to make death by train travel even less likely in the future. I'm also quite comfortable with my upcoming trips on planes, trains, and buses, even in light of this latest tragedy.

You’re probably still less likely to die if you were on “this” derailed train than driving. Not saying that scientifically just saying.

 

[neroden]

watch this: they seem to hint at track and state train was within speed.
they clearly state train derailed before it reached the switch .

So, what we have learned so far:
-- the train was obeying the speed limit
-- the train derailed before the switch

Did anyone else get any other information out of the video? As far as I can tell those are the only conclusions which the NTSB has made so far.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

That plenty. A broken wheel would of been reported if there was one. All eyes are on the track structures, and the recent MOW in the area.

 

[west point]

IMO The most important item to do is listen. You can hear the train go into emergency and if you do immediately hold on for dear life. Was on the Eagle once sitting in the lounge with another fan. We heard the air go he shouted first " Every body hold on " We repeated that louder. The train went thru a diverging turn out at high speed. Well no one was hurt in the car but might have if he hadn't starting to warn other passengers.. Engineer could not see the red over yellow until very close to the search light signal.

We told conductor no one in lounge was hurt to prevent any lawsuits when we got to Ft. Worth. Nrver heard a word later.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I’m hearing 7/27(28) and 8/28(29) will be running the whole route albeit with delays.

 

[Bob Dylan]

That plenty. A broken wheel would of been reported if there was one. All eyes are on the track structures, and the recent MOW in the area.

Some of the stories in the Media and on the Net are mentioning a Flat Spoted wheel on of the Coaches that might have "failed" and derailed the Car.

 

[JayPea]

I’m hearing 7/27(28) and 8/28(29) will be running the whole route albeit with delays.

I was scheduled to be on 27(29) out of Spokane to Portland but received word today that it was cancelled. I was going to take it to catch the CS to Los Angeles on the 1st. So I made reservations to fly to Seattle, overnight there the 30th, and take the CS from Seattle instead. Let's just say the Amtrak agent, while he did get my reservation changed, was a tad clueless, since he told me I could go from Seattle to Portland on one train arriving at 2pm, and leave Portland at 2:25 on the other. He then said if that was cutting it too close, he could check to see if there was another train I could take from Seattle that would get me to Portland earlier. I told him that I was fine with arriving at 2pm seeing as how it was the same train. He then complimented me on knowing my stuff!

 

[Cal]

I was scheduled to be on 27(29) out of Spokane to Portland but received word today that it was cancelled. I was going to take it to catch the CS to Los Angeles on the 1st. So I made reservations to fly to Seattle, overnight there the 30th, and take the CS from Seattle instead. Let's just say the Amtrak agent, while he did get my reservation changed, was a tad clueless, since he told me I could go from Seattle to Portland on one train arriving at 2pm, and leave Portland at 2:25 on the other. He then said if that was cutting it too close, he could check to see if there was another train I could take from Seattle that would get me to Portland earlier. I told him that I was fine with arriving at 2pm seeing as how it was the same train. He then complimented me on knowing my stuff!

Yep, I had an agent not book us on Surfliner 785 because it was too tight of a connection from 774, even though 774 turns into 785.

 

[joelkfla]

they seem to hint at track

That's not what I heard. Seemed like he was very careful not to hint at anything. Quoting loosely, "We've not ruled anything out; we've ruled everything in."

He did say they would be carefully inspecting the track and viewing video from forward facing cameras, but they would need to do that in any case.

Did anyone else get any other information out of the video? As far as I can tell those are the only conclusions which the NTSB has made so far.

There were no conclusions, just statements of fact.

 

[Cal]

https://apnews.com/article/amtrak-c...9cef/gallery/58be0a2f7ab543c7ae15b782d8e75697
If anyone wanted a few more pictures of the cleanup. Also shows good quality images of the lead locomotives, 74 and 38.

 

[Irelandvegas65]

I am scheduled to board 7 from chi to sea Thursday the 30th. I hope the post saying resumption will be before that is correct. I think once they restore service the staff can get back to a regular routine, it has to be very hard on them, in sure they know each other pretty well and it becomes a unique “family” for some.

 

[Cal]

I am scheduled to board 7 from chi to sea Thursday the 30th. I hope the post saying resumption will be before that is correct. I think once they restore service the staff can get back to a regular routine, it has to be very hard on them, in sure they know each other pretty well and it becomes a unique “family” for some.

Amtrak/Via Live map is showing that 7 that left CHI today is going all the way to Seattle, might not be accurate. But if it is, hopefully it will turn into 8.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Amtrak/Via Live map is showing that 7 that left CHI today is going all the way to Seattle, might not be accurate. But if it is, hopefully it will turn into 8.

Certainly the EB tragedy brings sadness to all of us. I ride it regularly and am looking forward to the journey once again in about 3 weeks. We need to keep making rail travel safer and safer... even though accidents do happen. Let us all hope that the EB will be up and running... proudly as it has done for so many generations.

Don't we all love that train!

 

[zephyr17]

Amtrak/Via Live map is showing that 7 that left CHI today is going all the way to Seattle, might not be accurate. But if it is, hopefully it will turn into 8.

Amtrak's own "Track a Train" map shows it cancelled at all stations west of St. Paul.

 

[Cal]

Amtrak's own "Track a Train" map shows it cancelled at all stations west of St. Paul.

Well, I'll go with Amtrak's then.