Empire Builder delayed due to extreme cold?

[sleepertrain10]

Hello all- I am scheduled to be on the Empire Builder in the middle of this week from Chicago to Seattle -Temperatures in Chicago and the Minneapolis are scheduled to be about 0 degrees with heavy winds which means temps in the -20 to 30 degree area with wind chills factored in- How likely are long delays and/or cancellation going to be for the Empire Builder? I was wondering if I should cancel my amtrak reservation and book a plane ticket and use the amtrak voucher for a future trip when it is warmer- I heard of significant delays when it was really cold last year when the polar vortex descended upon the USA. maybe some folks who went through this last year can comment or advice- Thanks for any advice or comments

 

[oregon pioneer]

I've been on the EB when it was very, very cold (in North Dakota, where it's always cold, LOL). They said it was 30 below zero. You could feel the chill radiate through the windows at you, and I do remember we had to slow down (but don't remember being exceptionally late into CHI, just a couple of hours). I am not sure what temperature it takes to make the tracks brittle enough that you have to slow down, but I think it's well below zero, anyway. I've never heard of them cancelling a train just because it was cold, has anyone else?

The biggest risk from extended cold weather is that rivers get ice jams, and the flowing water then goes out of the channel. There aren't many spots where the EB goes that close to river level where it's likely to ice up, but if ice james ever disrupt a train, this week's a likely time.

It's already warming up here in eastern Oregon, so you should be meeting the warmer weather as you go west. Do you have a deadline to be in Seattle?

 

[NativeSon5859]

It was -7 for most of the time in Montana when I took #7 this past November. The cold didn't slow us down. The freight trains did.

 

[Phil S]

Worst problem is often the water pipes freezing - especially drain lines. I've heard stories of having to run the cars, especially sleepers, down to NOL and back in order to thaw them. Don't know how much truth to these stories though. Today's Builders are doing fine, for a change, probably still light freight traffic due to the holidays.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I spent 3 1/2 years in Grand Forks, ND in the early 1970s. There were a couple of blizzards and many 30-40 degree below zero day's. The Empire Builder always came through even when Northwest and North Cenara weren't flying and Greyhound didn't run. I never had to cancel my train reservation and I made over 50 trips during my stay up there. I also caught the North Coast Hiawatha which ran 3 days a week to ando from Fargo quite a few times. I still remember the great feeling of boarding those steam heated cars from the cold arctic night in Grand Forks or Fargo. It was very comfortable looking out at cold night from my comfortable roomette or coach seat.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I still wonder how VIA manages to run the Canadian in temps as low as 40 below (F) in the Winter and not have freeze ups or have to send the cars "South " to thaw out???

I know they do have problems with switches freezing sometimes, and slow orders during howling winds across the praries, but CN seems to do a good job of track maintence so they can keep those really Loooooooong freights rolling that cause delays to the passenger trains.

 

[neroden]

The pipe freezing issues are a design issue with Amtrak's Superliner, Viewliner, and Amfleet cars. This is being remediated with the new Viewliner II design.

I think the problem relates to the elimination of steam heat. You could get away with a complete lack of insulation in steam-heated cars. When Amtrak switched to Head End Power, it took them decades to realize that they needed to revise all the car-building designs.

I'm not sure how VIA addressed this when they converted their old Budds from steam heat to HEP.

 

[sleepertrain10]

oh okay-thanks for the replies- the the train leaves from chicago wed at 215 PM- since the empire builder is usually a few hours late I was expecting with normal weather to get into seattle around 3 to 5PM friday-i was hoping to be in seattle by friday night say 8 to 9 PM and saturday morning at the latest since I have something planned for saturday afternoon and I want to avoid the traffic around union station Saturday since the seahawks playoff game is on saturday at 5PM

 

[Bradenmeridian]

I'm glad someone mentioned freezing switches. In the 90's I was taking the...was it still the Broadway then...NYP to CHI and as I waited in Penn Station and the train got later and later because they were still trying to unfreeze the cars in Sunnyside. I realized then I'd never make it to my first meeting on time, bought a flight from EWK and bailed. I checked the next day and the train still hadn't arrived. Checked the day after and it had come in 11 hrs late. I asked why and they mentioned frozen switches in PA.

One thing about a route like the EB, or Canada for that matter, is that regions that constantly deal with extreme cold know what to do as a matter of course. It's the places (Pennsylvania, for example) where they don't cope with daily subzero temps that it really plays havoc. Think blizzard in Atlanta.

 

[sleepertrain10]

braden makes a good point- I dont live in chicago and will take train from the east coast to chicago and then the empire builder- i was concerned the empire builder would be delayed and then i have to get a hotel in chicago while i wait for the train to be ready to leave- as of now the weather forecast for wednesday for chicago is a high of 3 degrees and -7 as a low with winds 20 to 30 mph

 

[oregon pioneer]

As long as they aren't forecasting freezing rain, you should be fine. I am sure you will have a wonderful trip, and I hope you'll write a trip report when you're done so we can all hear how it went.

 

[chakk]

Via Rail does have problems with shower drains freezing up on The Canadian in very cold weather. Car knockers thawed ours out while stopped in winnepeg last February.

Wind chill makes a body feel colder because the wind carries more body heat away from the body. I don't see wind chill having any effect on inanimate steel rails or wooden ties.

 

[user 1215]

I still wonder how VIA manages to run the Canadian in temps as low as 40 below (F) in the Winter and not have freeze ups or have to send the cars "South " to thaw out???

I know they do have problems with switches freezing sometimes, and slow orders during howling winds across the praries, but CN seems to do a good job of track maintence so they can keep those really Loooooooong freights rolling that cause delays to the passenger trains.

VIA? What about the Alaska Railroad? Though they don't have sleepers or showers...

As for wind chill, it shouldn't have too much correlation to infrastructure. However, I'm sure that wind can certainly exacerbate cold temps across steel.

 

[Ispolkom]

Actual cold weather (-30 or -40 F) in Minot can cause one big problem. Diesel fuel starts jelling at that temperature, and it can be impossible to refuel the locomotives. When it's warmer than that the principal problems occur when there is a derailment or some mechanical problem. It's much harder to work on machinery when exposed flesh freezes to it, and it's tiring to work in very cold weather even if you are properly dressed.

 

[acelafan]

Looking at today's Status Maps and the current temps courtesy of The Weather Channel....the Empire Builder is doing remarkably well. Who says Amtrak can't run trains in very cold weather?

 

[jebr]

For MN and ND, this isn't especially cold. Probably happens a couple times a year.

When air temperatures get to -30 or below, that's when it'd be "really cold" for North Dakota.

 

[niemi24s]

Lived just North of Minot ND about 40 years ago. Most places I'd lived before and since, the colder it got the less the wind blew. Minot? Didn't seem to make any difference - the wind always seemed to be blowing. Didn't get much snow, but did get a lot of snirt. Snirt's a mixture on wind-driven snow and dirt. How cold would it get? To quote a Robin Williams line from Mork & Mindy, "Colder'n a well diggers brass monkey!"

 

[Gemuser]

I still wonder how VIA manages to run the Canadian in temps as low as 40 below (F) in the Winter and not have freeze ups or have to send the cars "South " to thaw out???

Coming from a country that has not used degrees F since I was in primary school, can I ask what " 40 below" means? Does it mean 40 degrees below freezing, that is -8F or does it mean "40 below" zero, that is -40F?

Thanks

 

[SarahZ]

I still wonder how VIA manages to run the Canadian in temps as low as 40 below (F) in the Winter and not have freeze ups or have to send the cars "South " to thaw out???

Coming from a country that has not used degrees F since I was in primary school, can I ask what " 40 below" means? Does it mean 40 degrees below freezing, that is -8F or does it mean "40 below" zero, that is -40F?Thanks

40 below zero.

 

[jnismith]

In the UK, we'd call that "a bit parky" !

 

[CHamilton]

And -40 works both ways.

(-40) degrees Fahrenheit =
-40 degrees Celsius

 

[jnismith]

In England, we are renowned for talking about the weather but we are not in the slightest bit concerned with the actual temperature and we don't count the wind chill factor at all. I remember taking the subway from O'Hare into Chicago some years ago and there were digital thermometers every mile or so telling me how cold it was. I knew that it was cold cos' it was bloody freezing. The exact numbers were a bit irrelevant.

 

[Rail Freak]

LMAO!!!

 

[niemi24s]

We here in the good old USA have steadfastly ignored (for the most part) the metric (aka SI) system for decades. If the entire world were to change over to reporting temperatures in degrees above absolute zero, the rest of the world would be talking Kelvin degrees and I bet we'd be talking Rankine degrees! Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[SarahZ]

And -40 works both ways.

(-40) degrees Fahrenheit =
-40 degrees Celsius

I've never understood this.

Zero degrees F is -18 C, so why would 40 degrees below zero Fahrenheit be 40 degrees below zero Celsius?

How do they magically equal out when the value for zero is different in each system?