Empire Builder discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

[railiner]

3 locomotives are required if sub zero temperatures are predicted anywhere between St. Paul and Spokane at time of initial departure. Doesn’t matter what type of locomotive is used.

I suppose that is for redundant HEP capability, more than tractive power?

 

[west point]

There was also the understanding that the 3 locos were because they were all DC traction motors. The DCs were subject to shorting out in certain kinds of snow. The 3 were to help keep BNSF from having to dispatch AC loco if too many Amtrak DCs shorted out on 2 loco trains. However there were some instances in the past where it happened even with 3 P-42s.

 

[zephyr17]

I suppose that is for redundant HEP capability, more than tractive power?

Likely protection against failure of a unit which becomes more likely in extreme cold.

As I understand it, only one unit can provide HEP in any case. Also, BNSF would be uninterested in HEP capacity, their interest lies in preventing breakdowns blocking their railroad.

 

[railiner]

Likely protection against failure of a unit which becomes more likely in extreme cold.

As I understand it, only one unit can provide HEP in any case. Also, BNSF would be uninterested in HEP capacity, their interest lies in preventing breakdowns blocking their railroad.

You’re most likely correct, but they also would not like the pressure of public scrutiny on their hosting of an Amtrak train losing all heat in life-threatening frigid cold conditions, even though not ostensibly their responsibility…

 

[zephyr17]

You’re most likely correct, but they also would not like the pressure of public scrutiny on their hosting of an Amtrak train losing all heat in life-threatening frigid cold conditions, even though not ostensibly their responsibility…

Doubtful BNSF would get a lot of "heat" (pardon the pun) for that. It would all fall on Amtrak, like the stalled Venture with no power on VIA recently where much was made of VIA's failures, deservedly so, with nary a mention of CN. Accurately, IMHO.

Journalists generally would probably miss the nuance of host railroad versus Amtrak if the heat failed on Amtrak equipment. They have a nice, big Amtrak branded train staring them in the face to aim at.

 

[Tom C]

BNSF has one of the stricter rules regarding locomotives on the northern transcon. They require three below 0 and two at all other times. This is one reason why seeing freight locomotives is rather common on the Builder. If Amtrak loses a unit BNSF requires them to take a freight unit. On some other carriers you may see Amtrak running with just one unit. On some of the eastern LD trains, while they typically run with two units it a unit dies en route they just continue with the working unit - so seeing a freight rescue is less common in the east.

 

[railiner]

Back in the first decade of Amtrak, the Union Pacific would often add an “incentive locomotive” to the Amtrak engines on the SFZ between Denver and Ogden, I believe on their own volition, to expedite the train and earn incentive payments which were in the early contracts.

 

[Tom C]

Incentive payments are still a thing.

 

[west point]

Back in the first decade of Amtrak, the Union Pacific would often add an “incentive locomotive” to the Amtrak engines on the SFZ between Denver and Ogden, I believe on their own volition, to expedite the train and earn incentive payments which were in the early contracts.

The problem for UP and BNSF is they do not have any locos that can run 79 MPH anymore. Both have sections that are long able to make those speeds. Now in the east both NS & CSX might use one of their locos to help make schedule transiting various slower sections.
1. CSX on the Cardinal and Capitol part of route.
2. NS on the Crescent BHM - ATL - north.