Empire Builders are several hours late over the last few days

[montanamike]

#8, still in ND this AM is now over 8 hours late! My BNSF contacts say these lengthy delays (8 hours or more through MT) will likely now continue for at least several more days, perhaps longer.

 

[TamarackTom]

Yeah, the flooding around Glascow, MT is expected to crest Monday. I am supposed to ride the EB to Chicago Thursday and am expecting a very late pickup.

 

[montanamike]

In talking with the BNSF folks, the locals are somewhat puzzled by this flooding, since part of the track upgrade effort was to supposedly improve the bridge and raise the track bed somewhat in the flood prone area to mitigate future flooding issues. If I was BNSF I would be talking with my civil engineers about how they misjudged this one. I have crossed over that area several times since the "upgrades" and apparently whatever they did was not effective.

The good news elsewhere on this route is apparently no major issues in NW Washington, despite inches of rainfall in that area over the past several days.

 

[TamarackTom]

Well, if you talk to civil engineers, they will generally say that you never really solve flood issues, you just move the problem.

 

[montanamike]

Good Point. I will take a good look again at the effected area when we pass by it in a couple of weeks.

The "river" in question is not very big at all (not like the Missouri or Mississippi). While central MT has indeed received above average rainfall this month the amounts are not huge by any means. None of the other rivers in MT are at flood stage (our local rivers here in NW MT, which has seen more rain that the rest of MT, are all at normal Fall levels, even after a couple inches of rain over the past several days). I wonder what caused just this one tiny spot to get so high?

 

[TamarackTom]

River flow can be a challenging thing thing to predict. It's ironic I picked a flooded track as my profile pic. That flooding was a result of a river that is normally 10 feet wide and 2 feet deep and the track was 6 feet above it. Since then, BNSF and the local DOT have been replacing all the culverts in the area but just this year we had another event just 6 miles away to affect another small river to put slow orders on trains for weeks.

 

[RalphCT]

From the Great Falls Tribune of October 6, 2016:

Heavy autumn rains have caused the Milk River and its tributaries to spill out of their banks, flooding lowlands, washing out roads and putting residents from Hinsdale to Nashua on alert for the possibility of high water. Rainfall of 3 inches to 9 inches, followed by snow, caused the flooding, the National Weather Service in Glasgow said Thursday.

This storm along with additional more recent heavy rain is causing the unprecedented fall flooding on the Highline.

 

[montanamike]

The river crested yesterday and will be below flood stage in several days. Hopefully it won't take BNSF too long to effect repairs and return the Hi-Line to a more predictable schedule.

 

[The Chief]

Yeah, the flooding around Glascow, MT is expected to crest Monday. I am supposed to ride the EB to Chicago Thursday and am expecting a very late pickup.

Glasgow braces for historic October flooding Posted: Oct 10, 2016 2:09 PM CST

http://www.krtv.com/story/33357207/glasgow-braces-for-historic-october-flooding

TamarackTom I downloaded the Milwaukee Road failure pdf and skimmed it, to read later. CMSTP&P intrigues me w/the electrification program out west, etc.

Lotta reasons for Fallen Flags. Thanks for sharing.

 

[TamarackTom]

Yeah, the flooding around Glascow, MT is expected to crest Monday. I am supposed to ride the EB to Chicago Thursday and am expecting a very late pickup.

Glasgow braces for historic October flooding Posted: Oct 10, 2016 2:09 PM CST

http://www.krtv.com/story/33357207/glasgow-braces-for-historic-october-flooding

TamarackTom I downloaded the Milwaukee Road failure pdf and skimmed it, to read later. CMSTP&P intrigues me w/the electrification program out west, etc.

Lotta reasons for Fallen Flags. Thanks for sharing.

I tend not to be quite as pessimistic about the line's viability had the infrastructure remained reasonably intact. If consolidation with Union Pacific would have been approved it is hard to imagine they would have so quick to abandon the route. A lot of what if's in that story...

 

[TinCan782]

I was in Vancouver, WA earlier today (10/16) waiting for #11 when the #27 came through 2:44 late.

 

[montanamike]

A little bit more info: BNSF says they have way too many freights backed up on the Hi-Line now. The large amount of delays for the EBs are nothing compared to the mess that is going on in this area with their freights (48 hour plus delays). My local contacts say the delays are actually getting worse and rerouting is taking place now to try to prevent grid lock! They have said hopefully more information will be forthcoming in 24-48 hours as BNSF sorts out the mess.. Meanwhile the delays for the EBs will continue, with more 8+ hour arrival delays into CHI and 4+ hour delays into SEA/PDX for a while longer.

I asked about repairs and all I was told was that "they are assessing the situation".

Shortly after I sent my note I got this from one of my railroad friends (somewhat ironic considering the mess on the Hi-Line isn't it!!!):

Total US freight rail traffic, as measured in carloads and intermodal units, fell 6.1% in the week ended October 8, from the same week last year, the Association of American Railroads reported today. It was down 10% from the same week two years ago.

 

[TamarackTom]

Gotta wonder if Amtrak will pull the trigger on buses however considering the forecasted weather, I would rather be on a train. On the issue of freight traffic being down, that works both ways... yes few trains, but also fewer crews thanks to layoffs to help clean up the gridlock.

 

[montanamike]

Well, with #7, now still in MT and scheduled to arrive SEA over 6 hours behind, the timekeeping for EBs will likely continue to degrade. Since #8 will leave multiple hours late some time later today. The flooded river in MT is supposed to return to its banks by midday on Friday, so this week may be another very delayed one for the EBs.....

Some additional info this morning: BNSF has some significant track work going on in two areas in their northern division that are contributing to the long delays. These efforts are scheduled to continue thru the first week of November.

 

[montanamike]

I see #7, now somewhere in ID has moved to "Service Disruption" status after being projected to be 8 1/2 hours late into Sand Point. Perhaps Amtrak is going to terminate the EB at Spokane, given the severe tardiness of this train? Clearly something major has happened to cause this train to lose almost all of this time between central MT and Libby! Meanwhile #8 in ND is still just under 7 hours behind. At least it hasn't lost any more time over the past several hours.

Not a good way to start the week.

 

[TamarackTom]

Does anyone know if a "spare" consist is left in Seattle? Hard to imagine how they catch the schedule back up from this...

 

[montanamike]

That would be great if there was, but when we were in Seattle recently there were zero extra Superliner cars in their yard. Only one Cascades engine and a couple Cascade cars

 

[TamarackTom]

That would be great if there was, but when we were in Seattle recently there were zero extra Superliner cars in their yard. Only one Cascades engine and a couple Cascade cars

Then that would be a no, lol... I'm not surprised considering the structure of Amtrak. I guess that does beg the question of when to call Amtrak when a connection is likely to be missed...

 

[montanamike]

In the past, since I have been a frequent Empire Builder traveler over the years, when a train went into Service Disruption I tried to be proactive and call Amtrak, with mixed results. Sometimes it was quite helpful, other times they were totally clueless as to what was happening. I found the most reliable information to be at my local Amtrak station. But not everyone has a manned station anymore.

The EB stuck in ID is likely going to be one of those latter challenges. When my BNSF contact sent me info last night that they were worried about the Hi-Line grinding to a halt because of a number of serious issues I still wasn't prepared for what we are seeing today. Perhaps Amtrak will annul some trains until BNSF gets their act together and fixes the mess on the Hi-Line?

 

[TamarackTom]

Well, no one ever took the train to be on time... The consist that should become my #8 is in western ND. It will be interesting to see how this goes.

 

[montanamike]

How true. I take the train for the relaxation and scenery, not to get somewhere fast. That is what airplanes are for. I hope that #7 fares better than the one that is still stuck around Libby, MT. Now projected to arrive in Sand Point over 9 hours behind. Let me know how your trip turns out!

Update: #7 finally arrived in Sand Point 10 hours and 19 minutes behind schedule! Amtrak does not show any status for the #8 scheduled to depart SEA at 4:40 PM today. It would appear that this very late train will be a candidate to turn around in Spokane, but until they make their decision known nothing is for sure.

 

[willem]

I guess that does beg the question of when to call Amtrak when a connection is likely to be missed...

Well, no, it doesn't beg the question for anyone familiar with the usage of the phrase.

 

[JayPea]

Both EBs of 10-16 are doing better, relatively speaking. #8 is "only" 1:50 late at Grand Forks and #7 is "only" 1:28 late at Libby. As this is written at 1AM PDT, anything could happen in the next few hours of course!

 

[TamarackTom]

Well, the #8 that left Spokane this morning has already gone back into Service Disruption. Considering this is the same consist that had problems on it's westbound trip, I believe there must be an equipment problem instead of infrastructure.

 

[TamarackTom]

The #8 that left Spokane this is running only about 45 minutes behind now. That service disruption it was flagged for must have been for it's start in Spokane. It is not appearing on the Transitdocs map but is being updated on this page

http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=8&selyear=2016&selmonth=10&selday=17