empire reroute coming up

[joro]

Am looking at the Empire Builder from msp to chi during the upcoming reroute in North Dakota and wondering if that will mess up the scheduled arrival time in chi. We plan to catch the Cap Limited that same evening and wonder if that would be a bad idea. Any thoughts?

 

[jphjaxfl]

It should actually help the schedule because the route from Minot via New Rockford to Fargo is shorter. The only problem might be freight train interference. This is the route that the Empire Builder used before Amtrak when the Western Star ran via Grand Forks and Devils Lake.

 

[user 1215]

Here's what I experienced when the Texas Eagle was detoured. They adjusted the schedule from the point where they left the scheduled route (St. Louis) to make the full time (at 59 MPH) between St. Louis and Chicago with NO padding then added to the end. Since there is already considerable padding on the regular schedule, it APPEARED that the TE would arrive EARLY because of the shorter distance, no stops, etc. In reality, we departed St. Louis an hour late and never regained that time back and thus arrived into Chicago an hour after the revised time. And I don't remember there being any slowdowns or passings the entire way.

So my answer to the OP is that though the route may be shorter, all the regular traffic will be detoured to the same line AND the detoured route may not have an increased "P" speed limit because it doesn't normally carry passenger trains. That means that instead of 79 MPH, you're likely to plod along at 59. Such was the case on the TE detour. Come to think of it, I think the time keepers on the TE reroute a year ago June probably calculated the time at 79 MPH but kept losing time along the route even though we didn't stop and we seemed to be going full track speed the whole way.

Meanwhile, enjoy the rare mileage!

 

[Trogdor]

Here's what I experienced when the Texas Eagle was detoured. They adjusted the schedule from the point where they left the scheduled route (St. Louis) to make the full time (at 59 MPH)

60 mph (sorry to nit-pick, but 59 mph is the limit for passenger trains on unsignalled track).

According to the BNSF timetable, some of the KO sub (detour route) is good for 70 mph, some good for 60 mph (and of course, there are a handful of permanent speed restrictions; not sure about any temporary speed restrictions/slow orders that might be in effect right now).

 

[zephyr17]

Here's what I experienced when the Texas Eagle was detoured. They adjusted the schedule from the point where they left the scheduled route (St. Louis) to make the full time (at 59 MPH) between St. Louis and Chicago with NO padding then added to the end. Since there is already considerable padding on the regular schedule, it APPEARED that the TE would arrive EARLY because of the shorter distance, no stops, etc. In reality, we departed St. Louis an hour late and never regained that time back and thus arrived into Chicago an hour after the revised time. And I don't remember there being any slowdowns or passings the entire way.

So my answer to the OP is that though the route may be shorter, all the regular traffic will be detoured to the same line AND the detoured route may not have an increased "P" speed limit because it doesn't normally carry passenger trains. That means that instead of 79 MPH, you're likely to plod along at 59. Such was the case on the TE detour. Come to think of it, I think the time keepers on the TE reroute a year ago June probably calculated the time at 79 MPH but kept losing time along the route even though we didn't stop and we seemed to be going full track speed the whole way.

Meanwhile, enjoy the rare mileage!

KO Sub is the BNSF ex-GN mainline and is signalled, so FRA would permit 79. It is the normal Builder route that is BNSF's secondary line, although it too is signalled. You are right about not having a "P" speed, but most BNSF mainlines allow 70 for intermodal where other speed restrictions are not in effect. So with the shorter line, it should be faster and may well "hold for time" in Minot(7) or Fargo(8) if on time when they get on KO, as long as freight interferance doesn't affect it too much. My guess is the line is also in better condition, being the main, than the line through Devil's Lake and Grand Forks, and probably doesn't have as many slow orders on it, either. I understand that the entrance/exit into Fargo will be very slow as it will be using some minor branch to access the station from KO, though.

 

[Linda T]

Here's what I experienced when the Texas Eagle was detoured. They adjusted the schedule from the point where they left the scheduled route (St. Louis) to make the full time (at 59 MPH) between St. Louis and Chicago with NO padding then added to the end. Since there is already considerable padding on the regular schedule, it APPEARED that the TE would arrive EARLY because of the shorter distance, no stops, etc. In reality, we departed St. Louis an hour late and never regained that time back and thus arrived into Chicago an hour after the revised time. And I don't remember there being any slowdowns or passings the entire way.

So my answer to the OP is that though the route may be shorter, all the regular traffic will be detoured to the same line AND the detoured route may not have an increased "P" speed limit because it doesn't normally carry passenger trains. That means that instead of 79 MPH, you're likely to plod along at 59. Such was the case on the TE detour. Come to think of it, I think the time keepers on the TE reroute a year ago June probably calculated the time at 79 MPH but kept losing time along the route even though we didn't stop and we seemed to be going full track speed the whole way.

Meanwhile, enjoy the rare mileage!

When I was on the Eagle re-route from CHI to SAS, we departed on time and kept making up time all the way. Never arrived at a station late, and arrived at FW so early that instead of having a 45 minute layover, we had a 2 hour layover and were able to detrain and explore the city. We arrived in SAS over an hour early (not in my favor since I was going to reboard back in the morning so extra time to waste. So... just for the record I think it all depends on day, time, traffic, etc. Pretty much the same thing we always have to figure in on non re-routed trains. :giggle: The return trip, btw, we were early most all the way. The only two delays I remember (the first was before the detour) was waiting for a freight that was moving slowly trying to get to a siderail (I'm guessing it was about 45 minutes). It tripped the defect alarms three times, so it was creeping. The other time was when we actually reached the Chicago railyard. A freight was parked across the tracks waiting for orders to continue to move. We had to wait for him. Otherwise we would have only been about 15 minutes late. As was thanks to him we were about an hour late. I was fortunate in that I got to take the re-route to SAS and the regular route back. After St. Louis it was like being on a different train.

All I can say is, have fun!

Linda T.

 

[George Harris]

I have no idea where this 59 mph number is coming from. This is the FRA maximum for passenger trains on unsignaled tracks. The alternative, the KO Subdivision is something like 65 miles shorter and, while it has no designated passenger speed limit, has a 70 mph speed limit for the top category of freight trains. Therefore, the Empire should be allowed to run 70 mph on this route. Freight train congestion may cause it to lose time, but speed restrictions certainly won't.

 

[user 1215]

Well, then, I'll gladly stand corrected. If that's the case, you may just have as good a run!

 

[joro]

Thanks for all the input. Sounds favorable enough that I think we will try it and hope we make the Cap Limited connection in CHI.

joro

 

[mwmnp]

I understand that the entrance/exit into Fargo will be very slow as it will be using some minor branch to access the station from KO, though.

Yes, in order to access the station in Fargo, the EB will have to travel down a roughly 3 mile stretch of track known as the "coal connector" at 10 mph. That alone adds a good 15-20 minutes of additional running time to the detour.

 

[NW cannonball]

Thanks for all the input. Sounds favorable enough that I think we will try it and hope we make the Cap Limited connection in CHI.

joro

Making the Cap connection in CHI might not be impacted by the detour in ND - BUT - the EB can be and has been recently - delayed "out west" - west of Minot. Today's EB was more than 7 hours late at Milwaukee. See the EB lateness thread.

 

[joro]

Thanks for all the input. Sounds favorable enough that I think we will try it and hope we make the Cap Limited connection in CHI.

joro

Making the Cap connection in CHI might not be impacted by the detour in ND - BUT - the EB can be and has been recently - delayed "out west" - west of Minot. Today's EB was more than 7 hours late at Milwaukee. See the EB lateness thread.

Ouch!