Empire Service - SOLD OUT Train

[west point]

Do not forget the upper portion of the NYP - ALB is just operated and maintained by Amtrak. However it is leased from CSX. We do not know what if any restrictions on the leased property especially capital improvements that CSX may have veto power over. Unless someone has access to the complete lease agreement what if any veto power CSX has is unknown. Is CSX still paying property taxes on the tracks or does Amtrak pay them. Unless mistaken since CSX still owns the line someone has to pay the taxes.

The question now is does CSX have any say in electrification? Could Amtrak be required to remove any improvements at end of lease?

 

[CJIMI]

Simple. Nationalize all CSX tracks between NYP and Albany.

 

[Ryan]

Easy to type.

Somewhat more difficult to actually do.

 

[CJIMI]

Where there is a will ...

 

[CCC1007]

Where there is a will ...

...there is a wall.

 

[PVD]

The tracks from Spuyten Duyvil to Poughkeepsie are MTA-MNRR with 3rd rail to Croton Harmon. You can't nationalize without an emergency, and for eminent domain, you have to some public purpose you wish to meet that you are not able to under the present ownership. And very difficult when one of the parties is a state. Good luck with that. The trains that run on this route are NYS supported, and it is extremely unlikely they will fork over tons of money for a relatively small gain.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

While the tracks are leased from CSX, the price that New York pay is about the same cost to buy said tracks. Something about how New York can and does business. They just had too many hurdles to out right buy the tracks.

Not sure about adding the overhead wires, but I would be a big supporter of it.

As for property taxes on the tracks those are still on the books, but have been waived for several years now. NY can’t seem to pass a law getting rid of them, so there in a on going block of payment waiver.

 

[jis]

The question now is does CSX have any say in electrification? Could Amtrak be required to remove any improvements at end of lease?

What I recall from discussions back in 2012 when the lease agreement happened, is that Amtrak and NYDOT are free to make any improvements they choose without getting further permissions from CSX as long as they do not interfere with CSX's trackage rights and free operation of its freights.

In the context of electrification what this means is that sufficient clearance must be maintained so as not to interfere with standard CSX trackage rights operation. Amtrak has already completely relaid the tracks, replaced the signalling and control systems, installed ACSES etc. etc. It would be ludicrous to require that the property must be returned with all that removed and tracks restored to its previous condition.

What Amtrak and NYDOT can do without asking for any further permission from CSX is hinted at in a comment in this article:

https://www.progressiverailroading....agreement-takes-effect-for-Hudson-Line--33564

 

[neroden]

While the tracks are leased from CSX, the price that New York pay is about the same cost to buy said tracks. Something about how New York can and does business. They just had too many hurdles to out right buy the tracks.

I believe it had to do with weird NY State budget rules related to a State Constitution debt-limit provision which the legislature routinely works around. Borrowing the money to buy it and paying the debt off over time hits the debt limit issue, while paying the money incrementally over time in a lease doesn't, even though it's the same schedule of payments.

It's an almost-all-incidents-of-ownership lease. This budgeting business is the same reason NY leased Metro-North's Hudson and Harlem Lines, and GCT, for decades rather than buying it outright. They only bought it last year!

 

[Cal]

This would allow single seat service on all stops between Washington, DC and Albany, NY.

Even if it was electrified I doubt they'd make it a one-seat ride. They would either have to have two engines on either side of the train as, IIRC, they don't do any switching in NYP, and there are very few tracks that have access to the tunnel that Empire Service Trains use.

 

[Abe26]

How come the 10:45pm train NYP-ALB that used to operate before covid doesn't operate anymore?

 

[jis]

Even if it was electrified I doubt they'd make it a one-seat ride. They would either have to have two engines on either side of the train as, IIRC, they don't do any switching in NYP, and there are very few tracks that have access to the tunnel that Empire Service Trains use.

Once the Amfleet I replacement train sets are in service this will be entirely a non-issue. As a matter of fact even whether it is electrified or not will be a non-issue given the wide deployment of dual-mode power on those sets.

How come the 10:45pm train NYP-ALB that used to operate before covid doesn't operate anymore?

What answer are you looking for? Because they changed the timetable?

 

[Abe26]

What answer are you looking for? Because they changed the timetable?

They canceled it because covid in the beginning of 2020, but it's about time to resume it

 

[jis]

They canceled it because covid in the beginning of 2020, but it's about time to resume it

So you already know why it is canceled. Good for you. Now go and convince the Amtrak operations management to agree with you No one on this forum really has the power to make it happen.

 

[MARC Rider]

So you already know why it is canceled. Good for you. Now go and convince the Amtrak operations management to agree with you No one on this forum really has the power to make it happen.

We don't even have the power to keep train crew from hogging the booths in the cafe car. But we have no problem complaining about it.